Is the PMTA as scary as many think it is?

[Vapeon4Life]

Sure I signed the petition for the PMTA extension and hope the industry gets it.

But even if worse came to worse would it be a total shut down of the indusrty as some think?

I don't think so and here's why:
Government is losing billions on the economic recession caused by Covid19 - vaping is a moderately large industry, though probably much smaller than big tobacco, some big tobacco companies are also in it.

Do you really think that in these hard times even the worst of the government control freaks wants turn off a multi million dollar tax base?
I don't think so - Driving .................. will cost millions and will generate a new underground market - And that would be bad for all.

So sign the extension petition anyway if you haven't yet done so; but Stock up before Sep. 9 just in case - Some items like 'bubble gum flavored juice' is sure to be on priority hit list - some flavors and types of devices that they find too dangerous {????} may suddenly become scarce.

 

[MLEJ]

Do you really think that in these hard times even the worst of the government control freaks wants turn off a multi million dollar tax base?

This is government:
"Hey, look! Bundles of money from the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement! Cool!
"Smoking is unhealthy and we need more revenue, so let's put a high tax on cigarettes so fewer people will smoke and we'll get revenue."
"Our payments from the Tobacco Settlement are down because fewer people are smoking. What should we do?"
"Let's raise the cigarette tax. And forbid smoking in restaurants."
"Our Settlement payments are lower again. What should we do."
"Let's raise the cigarette tax. And forbid smoking in bars. And outlaw cigarette vending machines."
"Our Settlement payments are lower again. Cigarette tax revenue, too. What should we do."
"Hmm. Maybe we should ban smoking in parks and other public places. Let's spend money telling everyone how bad smoking is, too, because no one knows that already."
"Our Settlement payments are lower again. Cigarette tax revenues, too. What should we do."
"Let's raise the cigarette tax. And raise the age to buy cigarettes from 18 to 21. And ban smoking in prisons. And at private businesses on private property. And ban menthol cigarettes. And make it a crime to smoke in your own car if anyone under 18 is in it."
"Our Settlement payments are down again. Cigarette tax revenues, too. What should we do."
"People are vaping instead of smoking. Let's tax it. And let's ban flavored vaping products. And vaping in all places where smoking is banned. And online sales. And let's require an adult signature for delivery of parcels with those vaping products that can't be sold online. And spend money on PSAs telling people how bad vaping is. Yeah, that'll fix everything."

So to answer your question: Yes.

 

[John C Kerr]

Speaking as someone from Scotland this is all about tax.
The big tobacco companies in the US have pressured everyone to bring in legislation to try and get everyone to use sealed tanks.
Gutless European folded now I have to buy stupid 10 ml bottles of juice.
All because they are losing tax and not everyone is using the United tobacco sealed unit, but are taking the chance of getting nicotine on their hands when filling their tanks.
Shame that the tobacco companies had not shown the same health concerns about cigarettes when the dangers were pointed out 50 years ago.
Governments worldwide in the pockets of big business.

 

[stols001]

That is a lovely, naïve and sort of um, optimistic way to look at it but no, I don't think the FDA (or this country in general and its um, leaders) could give a rat's rear end about the economy.

We are drowning anyway, killing the vape industry off will barely be noticed.

Although if the FDA announces another stay of execution at this point they are going to look so wishy washy I am not EVER going to believe them But, I think they are serious this time.

Anns

 

[zoiDman]

...

Do you really think that in these hard times even the worst of the government control freaks wants turn off a multi million dollar tax base?
...

That Line of Thought only holds up if we had some kinda of Static Tax Base where other Tax Bases couldn't be Increased to make up for a Shortfall.

And where the Tax Revenue/MSA Payments from Cigarettes was Less than the Tax Revenues from e-Cigarettes.

 

[BrotherBob]

So sign the extension petition anyway

Welcome and glad you joined.
re:
Thank you for taking action, Bob!

Please share this alert with your friends and family.

• Here's the link: http://www.casaa.org/call-to-action/fda-citizens-petition-pmta-delay/

 

[Territoo]

That is a lovely, naïve and sort of um, optimistic way to look at it but no, I don't think the FDA (or this country in general and its um, leaders) could give a rat's rear end about the economy.

We are drowning anyway, killing the vape industry off will barely be noticed.

Although if the FDA announces another stay of execution at this point they are going to look so wishy washy I am not EVER going to believe them But, I think they are serious this time.

Anns

Anna you beat me to it. This is pretty much what I wanted to say. I would add that the powers that be are actually using the pandemic as means to to end all vaping. They claim, without proof, since smoking and vaping increases risk for covid19, vaping should be banned altogether. Not a word on banning cigarettes.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Speaking as someone from Scotland this is all about tax.
The big tobacco companies in the US have pressured everyone to bring in legislation to try and get everyone to use sealed tanks.
Gutless European folded now I have to buy stupid 10 ml bottles of juice.
All because they are losing tax and not everyone is using the United tobacco sealed unit, but are taking the chance of getting nicotine on their hands when filling their tanks.
Shame that the tobacco companies had not shown the same health concerns about cigarettes when the dangers were pointed out 50 years ago.
Governments worldwide in the pockets of big business.

John, it's an incestuous addiction to control, profit and perpetual incumbency between gov and industry. It's not our modern beneficial instruments of production or process per se that are flawed but the people we allow to run them and the synergy of authority they choose to achieve over us all. Cut the authoritarians out and the artificial entities they create with more rights than man, we'd do pretty damned well without them.

Good luck.

 

[Fstop]

No Industry shutdown, tobacco moguls create vaping monopoly I lay odds on industry take over

 

[Fstop]

John, it's an incestuous addiction to control, profit and perpetual incumbency between gov and industry. It's not our modern beneficial instruments of production or process per se that are flawed but the people we allow to run them and the synergy of authority they choose to achieve over us all. Cut the authoritarians out and the artificial entities they create with more rights than man, we'd do pretty damned well without them.

Good luck.

Corruption is killing us All. We Citizens must participate in our own self governance, if we want equity.

 

[sofarsogood]

In a couple weeks we'll see who's still doing business, what they have for sale, and who is closed. It's predictable that the businesses might not discuss business problems with customers. That would probably only hurt business. They would dicuss big sales, if they were having big sales. What I notice with online retailers is the usual number of sales with the usual tepid discounts. If they think their doors are closing in the next couple of weeks they aren't acting that way from what I can see. If I'm wrong where are the liquidation sales?

 

[Vapeon4Life]

the powers that be are actually using the pandemic as means to to end all vaping. They claim, without proof, since smoking and vaping increases risk for covid19, vaping should be banned altogether. Not a word on banning cigarettes.

BUT THE FACTS SHOW OTHERWISE!
'They' don't want you to see this and mainstream media will never broadcast it:

French study claims smokers safe from Covid-19


And:
Smoking, vaping and hospitalization for COVID-19

"This preliminary analysis does not support the argument that current smoking is a risk factor for hospitalization for COVID-19. Instead, these consistent observations, which are further emphasized by the low prevalence of current smoking among COVID-19 patients in the US (1.3%), raises the hypothesis that nicotine may have beneficial effects on COVID-19. This could be attributed to its immunomodulatory effects and its interaction with the renin-angiotensin system......."
Smoking, vaping and hospitalization for COVID-19 - Article (Preprint v13) | Qeios

Its becoming harder to find these articles as the
Bluumberg {misspelled intentionally} control freak agenda has spent many millions in anti-tobacco and anti vaping. They bury these type of articles with BS science [pure conjecture} on why vaping puts you more at risk, when the real evidence shows otherwise!!!

 

[Territoo]

BUT THE FACTS SHOW OTHERWISE!
'They' don't want you to see this and mainstream media will never broadcast it:

French study claims smokers safe from Covid-19


And:
Smoking, vaping and hospitalization for COVID-19

"This preliminary analysis does not support the argument that current smoking is a risk factor for hospitalization for COVID-19. Instead, these consistent observations, which are further emphasized by the low prevalence of current smoking among COVID-19 patients in the US (1.3%), raises the hypothesis that nicotine may have beneficial effects on COVID-19. This could be attributed to its immunomodulatory effects and its interaction with the renin-angiotensin system......."
Smoking, vaping and hospitalization for COVID-19 - Article (Preprint v13) | Qeios

Its becoming harder to find these articles as the
Bluumberg {misspelled intentionally} control freak agenda has spent many millions in anti-tobacco and anti vaping. They bury these type of articles with BS science [pure conjecture} on why vaping puts you more at risk, when the real evidence shows otherwise!!!

Since when has the government acted on facts???

 

[Dudeman]

Since when has the government acted on facts???

 

[Nailz]

In a couple weeks we'll see who's still doing business, what they have for sale, and who is closed. It's predictable that the businesses might not discuss business problems with customers. That would probably only hurt business. They would dicuss big sales, if they were having big sales. What I notice with online retailers is the usual number of sales with the usual tepid discounts. If they think their doors are closing in the next couple of weeks they aren't acting that way from what I can see. If I'm wrong where are the liquidation sales?

Check out eightvape, their sale has been that good, they are nearly cleaned out, no doubt they are getting ready to close the doors.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Some politicians in congress have been trying to get the FDA to ban all vape sales since about March of this year, claiming nicotine is causing some sort of health crisis during this pandemic business.

However, they did NOT urge the FDA to ban any cigarette or chew sales, even though these also contain nicotine.

The FDA refused back in March and now they have asked the FDA to reconsider this month.

Will vaping survive? Sure, it will be produced by a few companies which Bloomberg has stock in (a disguised monopoly). Therefore it will not only be ineffective and pathetic, it will also make certain people rich and I ain't gonna be a part of that.

I'm not vaping on a Bloomberg vape.

Stocked up and ready to roll.

 

[vaper1960]

This is government:
"Hey, look! Bundles of money from the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement! Cool!
"Smoking is unhealthy and we need more revenue, so let's put a high tax on cigarettes so fewer people will smoke and we'll get revenue."
"Our payments from the Tobacco Settlement are down because fewer people are smoking. What should we do?"
"Let's raise the cigarette tax. And forbid smoking in restaurants."
"Our Settlement payments are lower again. What should we do."
"Let's raise the cigarette tax. And forbid smoking in bars. And outlaw cigarette vending machines."
"Our Settlement payments are lower again. Cigarette tax revenue, too. What should we do."
"Hmm. Maybe we should ban smoking in parks and other public places. Let's spend money telling everyone how bad smoking is, too, because no one knows that already."
"Our Settlement payments are lower again. Cigarette tax revenues, too. What should we do."
"Let's raise the cigarette tax. And raise the age to buy cigarettes from 18 to 21. And ban smoking in prisons. And at private businesses on private property. And ban menthol cigarettes. And make it a crime to smoke in your own car if anyone under 18 is in it."
"Our Settlement payments are down again. Cigarette tax revenues, too. What should we do."
"People are vaping instead of smoking. Let's tax it. And let's ban flavored vaping products. And vaping in all places where smoking is banned. And online sales. And let's require an adult signature for delivery of parcels with those vaping products that can't be sold online. And spend money on PSAs telling people how bad vaping is. Yeah, that'll fix everything."

Wow... that was perfect (well not perfect but perfectly said in simple terms) I have no idea what is going to happen (but sure it will not be good) Bottom line... it's all about money (it usually is in the end) Answers... I have none. Questions... I have many. Predictions... won't even go there (I guess we shall see) So basically, I have contributed nothing of value to this discussion (unfortunately, I doubt any of this discussion really matters... it is what it is) Doom and gloom I guess. Maybe I will be be happily surprised... stranger things have happened.

 

[MLEJ]

In a couple weeks we'll see who's still doing business, what they have for sale, and who is closed. It's predictable that the businesses might not discuss business problems with customers. That would probably only hurt business. They would dicuss big sales, if they were having big sales. What I notice with online retailers is the usual number of sales with the usual tepid discounts. If they think their doors are closing in the next couple of weeks they aren't acting that way from what I can see. If I'm wrong where are the liquidation sales?

They'll be given some time -- last i saw, until 10/10-- to liquidate their inventories.
Some are having liquidation sales already, just not calling them that. Eightvape was mentioned; there are others. They're hard to resist after stocking up has become almost habitual. Eightvape would have probably gotten me if they allowed use of both a discount code & a free shipping option or code.

 

[vaper1960]

Governments worldwide in the pockets of big business.

Now that is the the short and sweet explanation (of many things going on) Nuff said.

 

[vaper1960]

We are drowning anyway, killing the vape industry off will barely be noticed.

Sad but true.