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Like Stubby said, most of us use Swedish snus and not American chew. Swedish snus has much less of the cancer causing agents than chew/dip. I wish that there was half of the research done on vaping that has been done on snus. Especially since I use both.
Now you're sinking to the level of webmd for information.
I would like to see any studies that back up there outrageous claims. I'm not seeing any, and I haven't in over three years of studying the health effects of smokeless. The facts are that there are dozens of studies, if not hundreds that contradict what they, and you are saying, and no studies that agree with them. Bottom line is there is no science to back it up. Large scale studies show the cancer rate from smokeless is so small that it often doesn't show up in studies.
You may want to read Brad Rodu's blog to get up to speed
http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com
You have been deceived by the propaganda of the ANTZ.
Hittman, the TSNA levels of chew and dip are now very close to what swedish snus are. If there is a difference between the different smokeless products as far as risk goes, it's so small as to be insignificant. I'm not buying into the idea that american smokeless is more harmful then swedish smokeless in any meaningful way. The studies are just not showing it.
Doctors: Swedish snus cut risk of cancer - USATODAY.com
This is a good one. BTW lol on the webmd. This has a fair amount of weight to it. Go check out kill the can (web site) and read first hand what it (chew) has done to people. I remember watching the news in the 80's and early 90's and seeing reps from r.j reynolds(they were being sued ). How they swore up and down that those products were not addictive. Cigarette companys would cover it all up. Why wouldn't chewing tobacco corporations do the same?
This is a good one. BTW lol on the webmd. This has a fair amount of weight to it. Go check out kill the can (web site) and read first hand what it (chew) has done to people. I remember watching the news in the 80's and early 90's and seeing reps from r.j reynolds(they were being sued ). How they swore up and down that those products were not addictive. Cigarette companys would cover it all up. Why wouldn't chewing tobacco corporations do the same?
Rose, chew and snus are not the same animal. Swedish snus is not a fermented product like chew is-a huge difference in tsna levels that cause cancer. You're right in saying chew is a nasty product but please don't lump snus in there. I know there are quite a few links to the Swedish snus studies on this forum so check them out.
You are falling for the same old fear and loathing BS. I looked at kick the can, not for the first time, and they haven't changed. Something to understand is that they do not point out a single study to back up there morbid claims about the risk of smokeless tobacco, but this the situation normal for them. I have already ask you to show the studies, and I have yet to see anything.
Of course you are going to have a hard time finding any, as epidemiological studies showing that smokeless is as risky, or more so, as smoking don't exist, though there are a lot of uninformed opinions. In reality what the epidemiology studies show is that smokeless tobacco is dramatically less harmful then smoking, and no amount of fear and loathing will change that.
I understand that you are a newbie to the concept of tobacco harm reduction so perhaps you deserve a bit of slack. With the decades of brain washing that has been going on in regard to smokeless tobacco uninformed opinions like yours are all to common, even on the ECF forums. What is not forgivable is your refusal to educate yourself. I have given you a number of excellent links with lots of good information. Its up to you as to if you want to become a knowledgeable person or to remain a fool.
http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/2011/12/low-nitrosamine-levels-in-altria-and.html
I can't find the numbers at the moment but if my memory serves me right, and I believe it does, chew historically has had very low TSNA numbers. Somewhere around 3 parts per million, while snus is about 2. There are even a few snus brands that are fermented. It' is not inherently a bad thing. The reality is the TSNA scare is pretty meaningless especially with the low numbers of modern smokeless. The only way to really get a clue as to what is going on is to look at large scale population studies. What the studies are showing is little to no difference in the risk factor of snus and dip or chew. The risk is indeed vanishingly low.
I know it's a hard concept to grasp. When I first started using snus over three years ago I was convinced snus was far superior to dip or chew. It took me a few more years of untangling the mess the ANTZ have been feeding us to come to the conclusion that I was wrong.
Once you get rid of the smoke the risk factor for tobacco is vastly reduced. I guess we could sit around and debate the fraction of a percentage advantage of snus, dip, chew, or electronic cigarettes, but it is pretty pointless. What is more important is finding something that works for you. Everything else is way down on the list.
I get a feeling people are still caught up in the its new so it must be better syndrome. Snus must be better then dip or chew because it's a new type of smokeless, ignoring the fact that snus has been in use in Sweden for about 200 years, but it is new to most people. So it must be better. Of course the science doesn't really back up the claim. Perhaps we think its better because the ANTZ haven't had a chance to propagandize it before we got our hand on it. E-cigs must even better then snus because.......... whatever.
I still much prefer snus, largely because of the no spit thing and the absence of sugar in snus. The sugars can definitely be a bit hard on the gums. Other then that I say dip and chew on.
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Stubby, the reason I made the statement about the tsna's is that I read it somewhere. I have no doubt that chew is safer than smoking and perhaps the levels in chew has changed. Like most people here I'm trying to make a choice to reduce my risks as much as possible. I am well aware that none of the alternatives are 100% safe except abstinence and that includes vaping. I vape too but unlike a lot of people, I'm not going to fool myself into thinking its completely safe when there is so little research done on it.
I don't know about what dip/chew does to your teeth but can tell you this. I had braces a couple years ago as an adult. I used snus and vaped the entire time while having them on and still have one more three month check up to go. Never once did my dentist or orthodontist ask if I was using smokeless and often commented on how much better my gums looked since I wasn't smoking. I honestly believe that no matter what product you use that oral hygiene is important. I brush three times a day and floss every day.
I never used chew and honestly thought snus was gross like chew when I first found out about it. I read everything that I could find to see if it was a reduced risk alternative and decided that it was. I couldn't do it with vaping alone. The liquids(except for WTA) lack the minor tobacco alkaloids that some people like myself still crave no matter how much nicotine liquid we vape. Snus gives me that "something missing" that liquids never could and keeps me level. I made what I believe to be an educated decision. If your decision is to not use it then so be it but don't condemn others for their decisions or opinions. One study I read stated that doctors believe swedish snus to be 1000 times safer than smoking. That is what I would consider reduced risk. If I had not found out about snus I would have given up on vaping and returned to smoking. There are alot more people on this forum using snus than you would ever guess.
I would accept easily without doing any research that snus is vastly less harmful than smoking.
I recently tried some "mint skoal snus", pretty awful stuff if I do say so, but it did the trick. Probably only in my head, but that's ok. I've been vaping and no smoking for about 2 months, every now and then I get kinda "panicky", I guess that's the word, and was thinking snus might help me over the hump, and it did.
I'm curious to know from those of you that have tried both (Swedish snus and US snus)- does the Swedish variety have much more "tobacco taste?" or is it still very mild and just not as sweet?
I've discovered that just because I smoked 2 packs of Marlboro lights a day for the past 25 years, I am not a fan of the taste of real tobacco. If Swedish snus packs in a strong true tobacco taste, maybe I should just stick with the not altogether pleasant but tolerable candy versions sold in the US.
And as to snus being marketed to kids, I haven't seen that. Where I live at least its not only behind the counter,but hidden back there. I ask for it and they pull it out of somewhere, it's really not that visible, at least that I have seen. I always thought it was more geared towards people like me who have a total workplace ban on smoking and find chews and dips intolerable. (shudder at the thought
.
So to the main question : Swedish snus, strong tobacco flavor or no? Or available in a range? And if so could someone reccommend a very mild brand/version? Thanks, interesting read.
I recently tried some "mint skoal snus", pretty awful stuff if I do say so, but it did the trick. Probably only in my head, but that's ok. I've been vaping and no smoking for about 2 months, every now and then I get kinda "panicky", I guess that's the word, and was thinking snus might help me over the hump, and it did.
I'm curious to know from those of you that have tried both (Swedish snus and US snus)- does the Swedish variety have much more "tobacco taste?" or is it still very mild and just not as sweet?
I've discovered that just because I smoked 2 packs of Marlboro lights a day for the past 25 years, I am not a fan of the taste of real tobacco. If Swedish snus packs in a strong true tobacco taste, maybe I should just stick with the not altogether pleasant but tolerable candy versions sold in the US.
And as to snus being marketed to kids, I haven't seen that. Where I live at least its not only behind the counter,but hidden back there. I ask for it and they pull it out of somewhere, it's really not that visible, at least that I have seen. I always thought it was more geared towards people like me who have a total workplace ban on smoking and find chews and dips intolerable. (shudder at the thought
.So to the main question : Swedish snus, strong tobacco flavor or no? Or available in a range? And if so could someone reccommend a very mild brand/version? Thanks, interesting read.
I would accept easily without doing any research that snus is vastly less harmful than smoking.
I recently tried some "mint skoal snus", pretty awful stuff if I do say so, but it did the trick. Probably only in my head, but that's ok. I've been vaping and no smoking for about 2 months, every now and then I get kinda "panicky", I guess that's the word, and was thinking snus might help me over the hump, and it did.
I'm curious to know from those of you that have tried both (Swedish snus and US snus)- does the Swedish variety have much more "tobacco taste?" or is it still very mild and just not as sweet?
I've discovered that just because I smoked 2 packs of Marlboro lights a day for the past 25 years, I am not a fan of the taste of real tobacco. If Swedish snus packs in a strong true tobacco taste, maybe I should just stick with the not altogether pleasant but tolerable candy versions sold in the US.
And as to snus being marketed to kids, I haven't seen that. Where I live at least its not only behind the counter,but hidden back there. I ask for it and they pull it out of somewhere, it's really not that visible, at least that I have seen. I always thought it was more geared towards people like me who have a total workplace ban on smoking and find chews and dips intolerable. (shudder at the thought
So to the main question : Swedish snus, strong tobacco flavor or no? Or available in a range? And if so could someone reccommend a very mild brand/version? Thanks, interesting read.
There are many different flavors of Swedish snus so I can't really nail it down and say swedish snus has a more tobacco taste. Some certainly do as in Ettan, Grovsnus, 01, but there are also a bunch of flavored snus as in wintergreens and mints. I overwhelmingly use the tobacco flavored snus, and that includes bergamot types, but I do enjoy General mint and Offroad coffee (sadly no longer available). There are lots of other non-tobacco flavored swedish snus. A lot of licorice flavored, along with some fruity types. There is a good deal more variety with the Swedish.
I haven't tried the skoal snus but from what I have read it is the best of american made snus. It has about the same nicotine hit as the standard 8 mg swedish snus so you should be okay with that as long as you stay away from the strong and extra strong types. Staying with Skoal is fine, but if you want to expand your horizons a bit there's a big world of snus out there to explore. None of them will be as sweet but for me that's a good thing.
Thanks for the info! Was just checking online , thought I'd order some to try. Shipping costs seem insane, maybe not if you were a regular user and ordering in bulk. But just to try it out, wow nuts! Luckily I just saw that there is a shop that sells Swedish snus and it's not that far from where I live. I'll be heading that way in the next week, I'll have to try the general white portion, there is a jocobsen(sp?) watermelon that looks interesting too. Definately want to branch out from what I can find at just the corner convenience store! Thanks again!
The general mint is an every day snus for me. I would recommend it. In the morning and after lunch I prefer something a little stronger like thunder berry, thunder cool mint, or below zero mint. I also like some of the regular tobacco flavors too. The lab 01,02, and 05 are some of my favorites.
I am not big on tobacco flavor snus either. The General Mini Mint is a great one to start out with. My order from Northerner came in today and I decided to try the Jakobsson's Melon. I like it! Really no hint of tobacco with a mild flavor of melon. So far it's a winner for me. Too bad you didn't get in on the free shipping that Northerner offered over Labor Day.
Stubby, I misunderstood the snus thing. That is a word we use around here for chew in general. Sorry for that. Second I understand tobacco harm reduction. Third I thought american snus was the same old dip in pouches. Now as far as dip in gerneral - well I chewed a can of the green stuff with the bear on it for about 5-6 years. You know what? I could breathe better I was all for it. Then this spring hit and I was laid up in the hospital and didn't know why. Even after all that I kept chewing. A few months later my teeth started to kill me. Then it was back to cigarettes. Now I just use the e cig. So personally in my opinion I don't feel like it(straight dip) is much of a lesser evil anymore. For the folks out there using snus to quit smoking I hope it works for you. It had worked for my friend's husband, and now he is off all tobacco. Just please stick with that. Don't cross over into the stronger stuff.
I recently gave a guy that I know thru work a can of crushed ice and a can of thunder berry. He said he liked them but said he still craved his dip. He takes pretty big pinches so my guess is that he probably would have had to use a couple portions at once to equal what he's dipping. That's one thing I like about snus is that I know how many mg of nic is in each portion that I'm using so I can monitor my intake.
Rose
The reason many here are using snus is that vapeing was lacking something. WTA ?
I still vape, snus is there to fill in the gap that vapeing doesn't. And in a pinch US most snuff / dip is readily available.
Your lucky that just vapeing alone worked for you. And as for the stronger stuff I chain vaped 36mg for a good bit until I found snus .
And have cut back to 12 mg vape. Regular snus comes in at 8 to 6 mg.
The reason many here are using snus is that vapeing was lacking something. WTA ?
I still vape, snus is there to fill in the gap that vapeing doesn't. And in a pinch US most snuff / dip is readily available.
Your lucky that just vapeing alone worked for you. And as for the stronger stuff I chain vaped 36mg for a good bit until I found snus .
And have cut back to 12 mg vape. Regular snus comes in at 8 to 6 mg.
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synthros, they'll probably have the Nordic Mint which would be good to try. If they have General Mint, buy it. It's less sweet than the Nortic, but definitely better according to the majority of people here.
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