Just how addictive is nicotine... Really?

[Jugband]

I just had an experience last week. I always wondered how much I needed my vape vs smoking.
I was on my way to a job. I was going to be gone overnight. I was running late as it was. Going down the road I realized, all the juice I had with me was in my mod. I forgot to pack an extra bottle! The moment you debate...I'm late for a job as is. Can I go until tomorrow with just the little I have? It would be such a hassle to turn around and go home. Thoughts begin to flood my brain! What if I get up tomorrow and my truck doesn't start? Etc, etc. Can I risk going without my Nic fix? What if I'm in high stress, no Nic on top of it all?
Moral of my story, I turned around and ran home and grabbed a bottle. Honestly, I was disappointed in my decision. Hoped I was over it after three years. I don't know if it was a soothing hand to mouth and vapor addiction that turned me around, or pure Nic addiction?
Either way, I had to have it. Sigh..may not be the greatest answer, but my personal experience.

 

[Angus T Rat]

Quote from this article http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

"Perhaps most surprising is that, in studies by Boyd and others, nicotine has not caused addiction or withdrawal when used to treat disease. These findings fly in the face of nicotine’s reputation as one of the most addictive substances known, but it’s a reputation built on myth. Tobacco may well be as addictive as ......, as some have claimed. But as scientists know, getting mice or other animals hooked on nicotine alone is dauntingly difficult. As a 2007 paper in the journal Neuropharmacology put it: “Tobacco use has one of the highest rates of addiction of any abused drug.” Paradoxically it’s almost impossible to get laboratory animals hooked on pure nicotine, though it has a mildly pleasant effect.

The same study found that tobacco smoke itself is necessary to amp up nicotine’s addictiveness. In 2005, for instance, researchers at the University of California, Irvine, found that animals self-administer a combination of nicotine and acetaldehyde, an organic chemical found in tobacco, significantly more often than either chemical alone. In 2009, a French team found that combining nicotine with a cocktail of five other chemicals found in tobacco — anabasine, nornicotine, anatabine, cotinine and myosmine — significantly increased rats’ hyperactivity and self-administration of the mix compared with nicotine alone."

 

[zapped]

The problem is, all this stuff is MUCH more complex than simple "additives" or "hand to mouth" - both are true, to an extent, but there's more to it.

For example, additives: Do tobacco companies put additives in cigarettes to make them "more addictive"? Well, yes and no - what they do is put additives in to make smoke more pleasant. More pleasant means more inhalation, means more addiction.

Is the hand to mouth thing real? Well, yes - nicotine is a "behavioral sensitiser" - in other words, it makes conditioned cues associated with nicotine much more salient than they otherwise would be. So, yes, the hand to mouth thing is real, but it's not just the hand-to-mouth action - it's repeated hand-to-mouth action associated with nicotine consumption.

I agree with this and it makes sense.

Im surprised no one here has mentioned the social aspect of smoking.Honestly it used to be one of my favorite things about it. Now Im wondering if much of that feeling wasnt caused by the nicotine.

How many other little rituals did we all have before that revolved around smoking?

Theres the famous smoking after sex stereotype but I can easily name a dozen more things that my brain quickly associated with smoking.

Eating, studying, doing art projects, drinking alcohol, shaving etc etc.

I betcha each of you could name several things as well.

 

[Kriengsak Wangdulyakiti]

I truely believe nicotine alone is not very addictive. I made a mistake mixing 0mg with another 0mg and vaped for half day. I felt sleepy but no noticeable craving. I was a smoker for 30 years during that time without smoking for half day can drive me mad of unbearable craving. Now I carry two EC, one 0mg, another one is 4.5mg. I vape 2ml of 4.5mg and 4ml of 0mg daily.

 

[skoony]

Its NOT misinformation. We've know for years that BT has specifically added chemicals to speed nicotines delivery to the brain and to enhance its effects. Is it that far of a stretch to assume that they also add chemicals that are themselves addictive as well?

In the process of making cigarettes BT not only had to make a product their customers
liked,they also had to differentiate the brands one from the other all while meeting
government standards guaranteeing the precise amount of nicotine delivered per
puff and other requirements. In other words they had to prove to the government
why a Marlboro was a Marlboro and not a Winston.In some cases it was necessary to remove
nicotine and in some cases add nicotine. Depending on the tobacco itself which could vary
from crop to crop from year to year processes were developed to to make the tobacco
consistent for which particular brand of cigarette it was used for. Some of this processing
may have in fact made some of the tobacco more habit forming overall but,it certainly
was not the intent of BT. Don't get me wrong. I am not sticking up for BT. If in fact that
some of these processes resulted in a more addictive cigarette I am sure no one in
BT lost any sleep over it. Remember while all this supposed creation of more addicting
tobacco was going on the government was looking right over BT's shoulder.

Regards
Mike

 

[rurwin]

Quote from this article http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

"Perhaps most surprising is that, in studies by Boyd and others, nicotine has not caused addiction or withdrawal when used to treat disease. These findings fly in the face of nicotine’s reputation as one of the most addictive substances known, but it’s a reputation built on myth. Tobacco may well be as addictive as ......, as some have claimed. But as scientists know, getting mice or other animals hooked on nicotine alone is dauntingly difficult. As a 2007 paper in the journal Neuropharmacology put it: “Tobacco use has one of the highest rates of addiction of any abused drug.” Paradoxically it’s almost impossible to get laboratory animals hooked on pure nicotine, though it has a mildly pleasant effect.

BUT... Once addicted to nicotine, the addiction seems to remain. Fortunately it seems to be supported OK by only nicotine, which is what we are doing. So although nicotine may not be addictive by itself, that is no help for most of us. It may be that long-term use of only nicotine breaks down the addiction, but that has not been shown other than anecdotally by self-selected individuals. Dropping nic levels over time may only be a slow cold-turkey or may only work with low levels of nic addiction where the majority effect is habituation. A carefully controlled mass study would be required to discover the truth.

Where it is important is in those few youths who are experimenting with vaping before smoking. It seems likely that they will not develop a long-term habit.

 

[B2L]

This is a very interesting conversation to me. A little background here, I've struggled with depression since I can remember and tend to be somewhat of a loner. I began smoking in the 6th grade and was a committed smoker for 27 years.

My wife, and doctor, called my smoking "self medication" for depression. I'm sure that was a major component, as well as being a loner I would often use smoking as a "good" excuse to remove myself from a group situation when I just wanted some peace and quite.

I began vaping, 36 mg/ml, and completely gave up cigarettes in about a week. My intention, at the time was to slowly lower my nic intake and be free from addiction within a few years. I was on track and got down to 6mg/ml after about 2 years. I thought I was doing OK, I missed the throat hit of higher levels but it was, to me, bearable.

My wife asked me one day, several days after dropping to 6, if I had changed anything. I told her I had lowered my nic intake (proudly, I might add) and she said "you might want to consider bumping it back up some". Apparently, I'm much easier to live with when I'm getting my nicotine.

I have come to the realization, and I'm good with it, that I will more than likely be vaping for the rest of my life. I've settled in at 12-15 mg/ml nic, a level at which my wife doesn't want to kill me in my sleep, and I get the TH which I enjoy.

All this to say, I agree with @DC2 , that everyone is different in their reason for vaping and what is true for me may be just the opposite for you or anyone else.

I am what I would call reliant on nicotine, which could be considered addicted, and the ritual (hand to mouth, etc) is very much still a part of it. I still use vaping as a way of removing myself from some social situations and getting a little peace at times.

Being a psych major in college, I find it very interesting why people do what they do. I have found though that there are so many variables in vaping (everything from people's personality traits, genetic makeup and habits to devices, juice flavors, nic levels, etc) that no one model fits for everyone.

 

[DC2]

Being a psych major in college, I find it very interesting why people do what they do. I have found though that there are so many variables in vaping (everything from people's personality traits, genetic makeup and habits to devices, juice flavors, nic levels, etc) that no one model fits for everyone.

I was also a psych major in college.
Also minored in physics and philosophy.

And yes, people fascinate me.
I like to study them, and I like to study this forum.


I wrote this a very long time ago...
Buying and Using an Electronic Cigarette: A Primer

The first thing to know is that everyone is different.

Everyone has different reasons for smoking cigarettes.
Everyone gets different things from the smoking experience.
Everyone has different needs and wants.
And everyone has different tastes

 

[Rossum]

Dunno if it's addictive to a never user of tobacco who's never been exposed to all the other alkaloids and MAOIs that came with the nic via tobacco, but...

As someone who smoked heavily for 36 years, now approaching two years smoke free, but still vaping 75-90mg of nic a day, I'll tell you this: I'm not a happy camper w/o my nic! I still won't go anywhere for more than an hour w/o a backup, and I keep nic gum around for those (rare) situations where I can't vape.

 

[sofarsogood]

Tomorrow I'll have my first DIY order delivered. I want to save money (80 cents down to 20 cents a day) but more that that I want to fiddle with nic levels and experiment with slightly boring flavors. I vape about 5 ml per day of 12mg nic. I'd like to vape less ml's per day. 18 mg nic is uncomfortable so I'll try 14mg. My impression is nic is fairly harmless in the grand scheme of things. I see no urgent reason to fret about nic. One of my relapses was after 10 years. Even if I stopped vaping, unlikely, I'll keep some gear at the ready from now on.

 

[stevegmu]

If nicotine weren't highly addictive, there wouldn't be so many heated and desperate threads concerning regulation. After all, PG, VG and food flavorings aren't getting regulated as tobacco products and aren't going anywhere...

 

[coolerat]

If nicotine weren't highly addictive, there wouldn't be so many heated and desperate threads concerning regulation. After all, PG, VG and food flavorings aren't getting regulated as tobacco products and aren't going anywhere...

A++

Number one post of the year on any subject!!!!

All these suburban housewives will be copping bottles of nic out of the truck of a car.

But no, it not addictive.

 

[DC2]

If nicotine weren't highly addictive, there wouldn't be so many heated and desperate threads concerning regulation. After all, PG, VG and food flavorings aren't getting regulated as tobacco products and aren't going anywhere...

1) Hardware will likely disappear once free-roaming nicotine is gone
2) Lots and lots of us NEED the habit more than the nicotine
3) Many of those who ARE addicted to nicotine can't see anything other than their own experiences
4) Many people care about those who have yet to find a way to quit smoking

You don't understand the heated discussion because...
a) You have a completely different take on the results of FDA regulation
b) You don't even care anyway

None of this equals "nicotine by itself truly is highly addictive" as far as I can see.
But for the reasons I mention, it seems to be the only thing you can surmise.

 

[MagicJosh]

I love vaping, but I also love the nicotine. And caffeine in my coffee. These are things that make me feel good. And are not particularly harmful. Are they addictive? I like nicotine and would prefer not to go without it. If I ran out, I would do whatever it takes to acquire more. I guess this means that I am addicted. So what?

Atleast you admit it. I do too. I'm not in denial. I know it's addictive and I'm an addict to it. But as long as it's not making me sick like cigarettes did to me once I will enjoy it. It feels good and helps with stressful situations.

 

[Devlinukr]

24 years ex smoker here.

Nicotine is incredibly addictive but it isn't harmful, the tar in cigarettes is what's harmful along with all the other carcinogens in it.

Vaping can't be quantified in the same way cigarettes are because the way you vape dictates how much nic you get from a juice, that's the reason people who sub ohm drop down to 3-5mg because not only would it be very harsh but would probably make you a bit ill to use 24mg at low ohms.

Personally I wouldn't go back to normal cigs because vaping is so much nicer and more satisfying in every way but make no mistake if I were to leave my mod at home by mistake I would not be a very happy bunny at all and would be jonesing for a fix in about 5 minutes.

 

[DC2]

Vaping can't be quantified in the same way cigarettes are because the way you vape dictates how much nic you get from a juice, that's the reason people who sub ohm drop down to 3-5mg because not only would it be very harsh but would probably make you a bit ill to use 24mg at low ohms.

This is why I often say that sub-ohming has muddied what used to be a pretty clear picture.

Before sub-ohming LOTS of people were dropping their nicotine levels just fine.
Often without even trying, and experiencing no side effects or withdrawals.

Of course, that doesn't apply to all.
But it was more than certainly a well-observed phenomenon.

 

[stevegmu]

1) Hardware will likely disappear once free-roaming nicotine is gone
2) Lots and lots of us NEED the habit more than the nicotine
3) Many of those who ARE addicted to nicotine can't see anything other than their own experiences
4) Many people care about those who have yet to find a way to quit smoking

You don't understand the heated discussion because...
a) You have a completely different take on the results of FDA regulation
b) You don't even care anyway

None of this equals "nicotine by itself truly is highly addictive" as far as I can see.
But for the reasons I mention, it seems to be the only thing you can surmise.

The irrational fears about vaping, hardware and nicotine being banned stem from the addiction...

 

[DC2]

The irrational fears about vaping, hardware and nicotine being banned stem from the addiction...

Yes, of course they do.

 

[Devlinukr]

There is a guy I know that asks me almost every time I see him when am I giving up and every time the answer is I have no intention of stopping vaping at all.

If someone said "hey dude, you wanna try this chocolate? It tastes 100x better than old chocolate and it doesn't make you fat" then you would be a fool to say no.

 

[DC2]

If someone said "hey dude, you wanna try this chocolate? It tastes 100x better than old chocolate and it doesn't make you fat" then you would be a fool to say no.

Given that nicotine improves memory, concentration, and attention...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=oly&id=6978023

It's hard to understand why a person would not find it useful in every day life.

I guess it's kinda why when I do drink coffee, which is not often...
I go for straight coffee with a shot of sugar-free hazelnut.
:shrug: