Lava Tube Battery Scam

[cozzicon]

Sorry for the delay guys, had some nasty weather on the 70-mile drive home...

Anyways, here is the picture:

And here is the eerily similar Li-On unprotected battery previously posted in this thread:

This is why I am scared, shocked, and mad...

That's not a protected battery. And while you cannot say for sure that it's not an IMR battery, it's close enough to make me nervous.

Once I have an example of these batteries in my hands, I'll track down what cells and chemistry they are for certain. Will be a couple of days before I have them. If someone else can confirm those facts before I do- more power to you and go for it.

At face value, the same top caps could be used on both IMR and unprotected LiON.

But in a cursory search I cannot confirm a Sanyo IMR 1600mah battery in 18650 form factor.

 

[bluegrasslover]

I've been enjoying this thing for about 3 hours and all of the sudden the display flashes about 5 times and I get nothing. I checked the staus of the battery and it reads at 3.8v. I bought an extra battery so I put that in and it seems to be working fine for now. I put the original battery back on the charger so I'll see what happen once I get it fully charged.

Has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks!

The flashing seems to indicate the battery not having enough juice left to run. Mine did it last night around 3.4-3.3 volts. This was my first charge and it lasted for about 28 hours of moderate vaping. I'm happy with that.

 

[L7D4N]

That's not a protected battery. And while you cannot say for sure that it's not an IMR battery, it's close enough to make me nervous.

Once I have an example of these batteries in my hands, I'll track down what cells and chemistry they are for certain. Will be a couple of days before I have them. If someone else can confirm those facts before I do- more power to you and go for it.

At face value, the same top caps could be used on both IMR and unprotected LiON.

But in a cursory search I cannot confirm a Sanyo IMR 1600mah battery in 18650 form factor.

Thank you!

I'll send you some paypal money for a beer if you can confirm either way. If these are in-fact Li-Mn and I can use them, I'll be happy enough to stop ranting to the point of being banned in the Volcano Forums:

The Official Volcano E-Cigs Forum • AW Battery Issue : Lavatube Technical Issues - Page 6

 

[cozzicon]

Thank you!

I'll send you some paypal money for a beer if you can confirm either way. If these are in-fact Li-Mn and I can use them, I'll be happy enough to stop ranting to the point of being banned in the Volcano Forums:

The Official Volcano E-Cigs Forum • AW Battery Issue : Lavatube Technical Issues - Page 6

Thanks... but no money is needed. I'm interested in researching it because 1. it's interesting and 2. we all care about the community.

That being said, if someone else runs point on this I'm fine and will confirm whatever is found (if possible). I will have the batteries tomorrow or Wednesday, assuming they shipped as promised.

 

[frazz]

Anyone notice that volcano has the battery now listed as out of stock? I wonder if enough people have started to want returns or expressed concern over safety that they stopped selling them... or I guess they just could be out of stock too

AW IMR High Drain 18650 Rechargeable Lithium Ion Battery

 

[frazz]

Update: I just heard back from Volcano on my request to return the batteries for a refund. Their first offer is for a store credit. I have replied requesting a cash (or credit card) refund. Will let yall know how it goes.

 

[nomochokes]

I have tried to contact Volcano via their contact page to let them know about the flashing light and that the tube reads 3.8v but the display still flashes and provides no power to the atomizer. When I hit "submit" it does not go through.

This started happening within 3 hours of use and with the battery that came with it and the extra one I bought from them as a backup. I got my order late last week and both the batteries were marked AW.

Has anyone else had these same issues with the flashing display and if so did the unit read 3.8+ at the time? Also has anyone else had an issue with contacting Volcano through their contact page?

Thanks!

 

[frazz]

I have tried to contact Volcano via their contact page to let them know about the flashing light and that the tube reads 3.8v but the display still flashes and provides no power to the atomizer. When I hit "submit" it does not go through.

This started happening within 3 hours of use and with the battery that came with it and the extra one I bought from them as a backup. I got my order late last week and both the batteries were marked AW.

Has anyone else had these same issues with the flashing display and if so did the unit read 3.8+ at the time? Also has anyone else had an issue with contacting Volcano through their contact page?

Thanks!

You have to be sure to enter the letters in the "captcha" box before hitting submit. If your message goes through, it will be listed at the top of the page after submission (be sure to scroll to the very top), a failure will also be indicated. Also, a little hint.. be sure to copy your text before hitting submit.. if you get the captcha image wrong, it will make you start over... I ran into this

 

[jdub]

Until they start sending out full replacements for the putting me in risk I will be boycotting the Volcano company and everyone else should as well

 

[frazz]

Until they start sending out full replacements for the putting me in risk I will be boycotting the Volcano company and everyone else should as well

I do applaud Volcano for letting everyone know about the fake batteries as soon as they knew. I do think that they should send out genuine AW IMR's without requiring a return on the batteries, or atleast to an "Advanced Replacement" (no one has done those in years.. guess I am old). What really bothers me, is that without knowing with 100% certainty, they are saying they ARE IMR batteries. Someone slapped an AW sticker on there... I am pretty sure someon can stick IMR on there too.. just my 2 cents.

 

[nomochokes]

You have to be sure to enter the letters in the "captcha" box before hitting submit. If your message goes through, it will be listed at the top of the page after submission (be sure to scroll to the very top), a failure will also be indicated. Also, a little hint.. be sure to copy your text before hitting submit.. if you get the captcha image wrong, it will make you start over... I ran into this

I do enter all the letters in the captcha box but I just get a blank screen and nothing else after I hit submit. I will try it again in a little while.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[frazz]

I do enter all the letters in the captcha box but I just get a blank screen and nothing else after I hit submit. I will try it again in a little while.

Thanks for your reply!

Don't forget to scroll all the way to the top of the page to check the returned result. Either Failure or Success will clear the boxes.. the only way to tell for sure is to look at the top of the page to see if it went through.... or if you get a reply from them or not

 

[L7D4N]

I do applaud Volcano for letting everyone know about the fake batteries as soon as they knew. I do think that they should send out genuine AW IMR's without requiring a return on the batteries, or atleast to an "Advanced Replacement" (no one has done those in years.. guess I am old). What really bothers me, is that without knowing with 100% certainty, they are saying they ARE IMR batteries. Someone slapped an AW sticker on there... I am pretty sure someon can stick IMR on there too.. just my 2 cents.

That's EXACTLY what I just told Volcano on their forums after, yet again, informing me these are indeed Li-MN batteries:

=========================================================
I know the differences in the mAh ratings, but this has no bearing on the actual battery itself. As it was intentionally mislabeled as an AW for profit, is it out of line to think it could be a different battery altogether? Think of it this way:

If the original supplier intentionally mislabeled these batteries, it was for profits, due to the higher costs and trusted batteries of AW. In the same realm of possibility, basing this on profits, would it be cheaper to provide you (Volcano in this instance) a more expensive chemistry as Li-Mn, or spend 1/3 the money and send you unprotected Li-On batteries labeled as Li-Mn? If my sole intentions were profit, I would be inclined to think these are unprotected Li-On batteries.
=========================================================

The Official Volcano E-Cigs Forum • AW Battery Issue : Lavatube Technical Issues - Page 7

 

[frazz]

That's EXACTLY what I just told Volcano on their forums after, yet again, informing me these are indeed Li-MN batteries:

=========================================================
I know the differences in the mAh ratings, but this has no bearing on the actual battery itself. As it was intentionally mislabeled as an AW for profit, is it out of line to think it could be a different battery altogether? Think of it this way:

If the original supplier intentionally mislabeled these batteries, it was for profits, due to the higher costs and trusted batteries of AW. In the same realm of possibility, basing this on profits, would it be cheaper to provide you (Volcano in this instance) a more expensive chemistry as Li-Mn, or spend 1/3 the money and send you unprotected Li-On batteries labeled as Li-Mn? If my sole intentions were profit, I would be inclined to think these are unprotected Li-On batteries.
=========================================================

The Official Volcano E-Cigs Forum • AW Battery Issue : Lavatube Technical Issues - Page 7

I see in the post, that Artist Boy says Volcano will be putting out some kind of statement on this issue today after a meeting.. I wonder where it will be posted, would love to read it.

 

[BK_Malik]

I'd always been curious about Volcanos claims as to a AW Flat Top IMR comming with the kit. I've never seen one nor could find one outside of what they were claiming and highly doubted AW made a battery specifically for them to include in a kit.

You do want to stick with a IMR or High Drain battery due to the LT boost circuitry. AW sells a button top IMR 18650 that has been tested, fits and works just fine in the LT and is an excellent quality battery. You can get these at several places including, supertmanufacturing.com, lighthound.com, rtdvapor.com, provape.com and I think a seller or two in the suppliers section here.

FWIW, even though they may have previously stated they were AW and they aren't doesn't mean they won't work or be fine in the LT. As long as they are High Drain they should work well but they probably won't last as long as AW which are excellent quality batteries.

I have 10 AW 18650 high drain batts and all of them only allow me to screw the cap on part way. They all work but there is a gap of about 1/16 of an inch. Does your end cap screw all the way down with button top AW's?

 

[Ande]

I'm not a battery expert, or a lavatube owner.

I have a little background in electronics, though, and everything I'm reading makes me nervous about the batteries that went out with these. VERY nervous.

The run times some users are reporting are simply NOT consistant with a 1600-1700 mAh LI-MN battery. (Or with 1700 mAh of anything.) In the absence of a (much) higher mAh IMR battery on the market, I think we have to be open to the possibility that these are lithium ion batteries.

So the question is- Are they protected? I see no sign of a protection circuit in the photos I've seen, but if they are, well and good.

If they aren't DOES THE LAVATUBE HAVE PROTECTION CIRCUITRY THAT MAKES IT SAFE (or safeish) TO USE UNPROTECTED Lithium Ion batteries? Some VV mods do. (Notcigs comes to mind.) But I haven't heard of a "step-up" circuit like this that does. Seems unlikely, because of the high current draw needed for this kind of a step-up circuit.

IF they are unprotected lithium ion batteries, and if there isn't built in overdrain (and I don't see how they could have this) and overdischarge protection built into the mod, a considerable number of members of our community are vaping time bombs right now. IF this is the case, sooner or later, probably sooner, somebody is going to overdischarge a battery, charge it, and blow it.

I hope this isn't as bad as it looks like it could be. But it could be.

Be safe, folks. Get some verifiable batteries for your LTs, and merry Christmas.

Ande

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Something I've noticed (no hard evidence to back it up, but a feeling) is that as the voltage of the battery drops, the LT's voltage range also decreases. The voltage it puts out is not necessarily what you dial in... I was just using a Bulli A2 at 4v (roughly 2 ohm coil on it) and noticed it getting weaker when the battery dropped to around 3.7v. Switching it over to a newly charged battery resulted in a much stronger vape, at the same voltage setting. Basically, I think there is no point in trying to get the most out of the battery (it cuts out at about 3.4v unloaded voltage anyway - a battery is basically empty at 3.5v) and change it early - 3.8v or so. That should solve any question of overdischarging the battery (which is something to be avoided whether it's LiMn or LiCo).

There is an inbuilt "overdrain protection" if you can call it that, as shown in the video GrimGreen has put on youtube. If you try to dial in too high a voltage for your atty, the LT simply ignores your voltage setting and drops it down to the highest that it's electronics will allow. Which is likely based on approx a 2.5A current draw (if the makers claims are to be believed).

BTW - you can get a quick battery voltage check if you quickly press the power button 7 times. Might be widely known but thought I'd throw it in here, and my LT didn't come with instructions so I guess it might not be.

 

[BK_Malik]

AW DOES make flat top 18650's. You can get them from Super-T:
Super T Manufacturing, Innovative manufacturer of electronic cigarette products.

 

[L7D4N]

AW DOES make flat top 18650's. You can get them from Super-T:
Super T Manufacturing, Innovative manufacturer of electronic cigarette products.

The only Flat-Top AW's they make are protected Li-On batteries. I haven't been able to find any AW IMR High Drain Flat-Top batteries, and the IMR's Super-T sells are nipple tops.

I bought IMR's from Super-T yesterday after discovering the counterfeit batteries from Volcano.

 

[cozzicon]

I'm not a battery expert, or a lavatube owner.

I have a little background in electronics, though, and everything I'm reading makes me nervous about the batteries that went out with these. VERY nervous.

The run times some users are reporting are simply NOT consistant with a 1600-1700 mAh LI-MN battery. (Or with 1700 mAh of anything.) In the absence of a (much) higher mAh IMR battery on the market, I think we have to be open to the possibility that these are lithium ion batteries.

So the question is- Are they protected? I see no sign of a protection circuit in the photos I've seen, but if they are, well and good.

If they aren't DOES THE LAVATUBE HAVE PROTECTION CIRCUITRY THAT MAKES IT SAFE (or safeish) TO USE UNPROTECTED Lithium Ion batteries? Some VV mods do. (Notcigs comes to mind.) But I haven't heard of a "step-up" circuit like this that does. Seems unlikely, because of the high current draw needed for this kind of a step-up circuit.

IF they are unprotected lithium ion batteries, and if there isn't built in overdrain (and I don't see how they could have this) and overdischarge protection built into the mod, a considerable number of members of our community are vaping time bombs right now. IF this is the case, sooner or later, probably sooner, somebody is going to overdischarge a battery, charge it, and blow it.

I hope this isn't as bad as it looks like it could be. But it could be.

Be safe, folks. Get some verifiable batteries for your LTs, and merry Christmas.

Ande

Generally speaking you shouldn't use a non-IMR battery in a boost-regulated mod because of the current requirements. Standard protected LiON cannot handle the current draw and on better protected batteries it will trip the protection circuit at higher voltage settings.

Provape does have one 18650 2600mah battery on their site which is supposedly rated for the Provari and is protected. Presumably it's an AW rebranded for Provape.