Lava Tube: Better and cheaper than the Provari (video opinion)

[ambientech]

I won't apologize for that. If you buy a Provari because you are swayed by the hype that I have shown to be overrated ( unless you really really need a stainless steel body which is rare) then I'd say you just didn't think this thing through.

Sure those mods are expensive. A few years ago someone made a pricy mod and decided with this new market they could make a killing and others followed suit. Do I believe for one second it actually cost so much to design, advertise and manufacture these mods to justify the prices? No way on earth. I believe they do it because they can get away with it and know people will pay, especially because the only competition they had was each other. The Lava Tube could be great for these companies and force them to level the playing field. Would they lose money? Of course not. They would make more money by offering a better product at a better price accessible to more people that they currently are.

Until an owner of one of these mod companies comes here and details for me each dime he spent in design, advertising, manufacturing, materials - and shows me, he himself is not getting ripped off by these products or services and that his price is fair for the product and is justified, all you guys are just speculating on the price justification. None of you really know that the materials, manufacturing, design, advertising are what is keeping the prices high. None of you know the companies markup.

Yes, I know the Chinese do work cheaper and that's a big factor. Not only that but its the U.S Dollars fault prices are so high in the U.S. It's bad politics married with bad economy. Simply put the dollar is worth nothing. That's why people charge more. If the Government and the Federal Reserve would not play lose and fast with the American People's money it would not cost nearly as much for American materials and manufacturing services.

Here is a good article on that So Much for the Cheap 'China Price' - BusinessWeek

People say Buy American but they do not realize the system is flawed. Buying more American will not boost the economy and cause the value of the dollar to go up to bring these prices down.

Many American e-cig companies are actually starting to move their manufacturing plants to China like GotVapes. China has access to cheaper electronics because they have more access to them ( more of an abundance) than any other country in the world. That also helps keep Chinese prices down. Is everything in China made "Cheap" ? Of course not. I have been buying the highest quality Lithium Ion batteries on earth (and other parts for my E-bike) for years from China. There is no reason why a Provari clone made with stainless steel made in China cannot be both superior to and cheaper than the Provari we have now. I look at this as not so smart a business decision by the Provari company (and others) to not use the best manufacturing services they could have used.

Really ?

 

[conan]

I am glad that people are happy with their purchased lava tubes. But anyone saying they are better, or equal quality of the Provari simply do not know what they are talking about.

 

[Shel]

Until an owner of one of these Mod companies comes here and details for me each dime he spent in design, advertising, manufacturing, materials - and shows me, he himself is not getting ripped off by these products or services and that his price is fair for the product and is justified, all you guys are just speculating on the price justification.

Wow.

Here's how business works in the "real world"....

If I am selling widgets, and they cost me $10, and I can sell 50 of them at $100, I'll make $5000 - $500 (my cost)= $4,500.

If I find that, by lowering the price to, say, $75 I'll sell twice as many widgets (100), I'll make $7,500 - $1000=$6,500.00.

If I lower the price to $30 and can now sell 200 widgets, I'll make $6,000-$2,000 (my cost @$10/widget) =$4,000.

I'm now selling twice as many widgets in the last example as I was in the second example, but I now have to make twice as many widgets to make a profit of $2,500 LESS!

The sales price has NOTHING to do with how much I paid to produce the widget, other then if it costs me more to produce then I can sell it for, I won't be in business for long.

You HONESTLY think Apple Computer, or any other company can charge $500, 600, 900 for an iPad, but they say to themselves... well, it only cost us $100 because it's made in China, so we really can't charge that much!

No supplier owes you or me or anyone else a detailed breakdown of how much it cost them to produce their product.

If their product it too expensive, nobody will by it. If it's very inexpensive and has "perceived value", it'll sell like hotcakes.

Has NOTHING to do with how much the development, advertising, marketing cost the company!

 

[Morandir835]

John Pheonix sir when someone makes a video showing you can drop a lava tube onto the street from the back of a truck, have a case of water fall onto it, and all that happened is a few flecks of paint chipped off, then yes I'll agree the durability no longer comes into play. Until then won't regret the money I dropped into the provari 6 months ago. It's built like a tank.

 

[zoiDman]

I won't apologize for that. If you buy a Provari because you are swayed by the hype that I have shown to be overrated ( unless you really really need a stainless steel body which is rare) then I'd say you just didn't think this thing through.

Sure those mods are expensive. A few years ago someone made a pricy mod and decided with this new market they could make a killing and others followed suit. Do I believe for one second it actually cost so much to design, advertise and manufacture these mods to justify the prices? No way on earth. I believe they do it because they can get away with it and know people will pay, especially because the only competition they had was each other. The Lava Tube could be great for these companies and force them to level the playing field. Would they lose money? Of course not. They would make more money by offering a better product at a better price accessible to more people that they currently are.

Until an owner of one of these Mod companies comes here and details for me each dime he spent in design, advertising, manufacturing, materials - and shows me, he himself is not getting ripped off by these products or services and that his price is fair for the product and is justified, all you guys are just speculating on the price justification. None of you really know that the materials, manufacturing, design, advertising are what is keeping the prices high. None of you know the companies markup.

Yes, I know the Chinese do work cheaper and that's a big factor. Not only that but its the U.S Dollars fault prices are so high in the U.S. It's bad politics married with bad economy. Simply put the dollar is worth nothing. That's why people charge more. If the Government and the Federal Reserve would not play lose and fast with the American People's money it would not cost nearly as much for American materials and manufacturing services.

Here is a good article on that So Much for the Cheap 'China Price' - BusinessWeek

People say Buy American but they do not realize the system is flawed. Buying more American will not boost the economy and cause the value of the dollar to go up to bring these prices down.

Many American e-cig companies are actually starting to move their manufacturing plants to China like GotVapes. China has access to cheaper electronics because they have more access to them ( more of an abundance) than any other country in the world. That also helps keep Chinese prices down. Is everything in China made "Cheap" ? Of course not. I have been buying the highest quality Lithium Ion batteries on earth (and other parts for my E-bike) for years from China. There is no reason why a Provari clone made with stainless steel made in China cannot be both superior to and cheaper than the Provari we have now. I look at this as not so smart a business decision by the Provari company (and others) to not use the best manufacturing services they could have used.

I just wanted to quote the whole post because other people were doing it.

I must really be bored. I've read this whole thread thinking there was going to be a point made. Worst thread ever. Is this what's called trolling?

Lot of free time one your hands?

LOL. Don't feel bad. I'm subscribed to about 6 of these "Day Time Talk Show" threads.

...

Some want a provari but only have a hundred bucks and get the lavatube.
...

Isn't this what it all gets down to?

If you want a Provari, buy it. If you can't afford, don't. If you think a Provari is worth it, go for it. If you think it is a rip-off, don't go for it.

Seems like too many people are trying to Sell people on the Provari, or the Lavatube, and when someone disagrees with whatever their selling, they get bent.

I personally think both will give you the same hit under most circumstances for most people. So it kinda gets down estectics (sp?) and how it feels in your hand.

And both of these are hard to quantify money wise.

 

[Pioneersnt]

Yeah Pioneersnt, thats nice if you need that. Most people don't. Most people will never totally destroy a mod for any reason, it will just die on it's own.

The Provari vapes. That's all it does. It doesn't make you breakfast, fetch your slippers, tuck you in at night or make you any prettier or smarter. (in fact it makes you poorer and therefore dumber IMO, see below)

List price for the Provari is 200 dollars not including batteries, atomizer and charger. If you want those, (and they ARE needed) you have to pay an additional 12 for the batteries, 9 for the atomizer, and 17 for the charger. for a total of 236. Then if you wanted to use 18650 batteries add another 20 to that for the extended cap. for 256. It has a 1 year warranty. You can get an extended 1 year warranty for a total of 2 years, for another 25 bucks, so we are up to 281.00.

Lets say you buy all this and 2 years and one day goes by and you do something unthinkable - you drop it off the Hoover Dam. To replace it, you have to spend another 300 dollars.

You could have bought 4 Lava Tubes for that price. 70 x 4 = 280. ( the Lava Tube has everything if you buy the kit for an extra 30 dollars- batteries, atomizer, charger included in the kit. So you would be having to replace it 3 times if you needed the whole kit - It can already use the 18650 batteries without an extended cap and has a 1 year warranty)

Looking at it that way, just to have the ability to vape from 3 to 6 volts is it really worth it? Seems to me it's not. Either way you look at it the rugged durability of the Provari will not equal out the cost comparison to the Lava Tube.

This would only equal the Lava Tube if the Lava Tube died every 6 months and I doubt it will plus that's not gonna happen with the 1 year warranty.

*** It would take you a whole 4 years of having to replace the Lava Tube to equal what you spend on the Provari one time. The Lava Tube still wins money wise over Provari's durability and 2 year warranty, logically. !!!

So the guy in your example did not have to put out another 300 dollars. He would have come out better had he not bought the Provari in the first place and instead had to replace a Lava Tube a time or even two. Some people just like to "throw away money" because 1) they can and 2) they like to keep up with the Jones's. That's fine if that's their personal preference but logic doesn't justify it.

It sure ain't gonna vape any better than a 1500 dollar Rolex will tell time any better than a Wal-Mart 10 dollar special.

I just KILLED the Provari durability argument.

I proved you cannot use the Provari durability argument to justify the price or claim the Provari is a better value in the long run because of the durability and 2 year warranty.

P.T.Barnum was Right.

I disagree. You did not "kill the durability argument". Again, all you did was make a case for costs. I think we all agree that the LT is a lot cheaper. If you want cheap disposable items, go for it. I have no problem with that. I peronally prefer quality, craftsmanship and durability. There is something pleasurable and satisfying about picking up an item that has precision machined parts made of quality materials that fit together perfectly. I have a lot of respect for a company or individual that takes pride in what they produce and won't hesitate pay extra for that. Guess that makes me old fashioned, but I refuse to fall into the WalMart-everything is disposable mentality.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[John Phoenix]

Pioneersnt

My thing is I made the comparison on known information assuming the end of the warranty was the life of the product because that's what the company covers. The Provari or the Lava Tube has not been around long enough to say that one will really outlast the other. As someone said above, " perceived value". It may be perceived value of the stainless steel that makes people think the Provari will last longer but this has not been proven yet.

The only concession I will make is the time it takes you to replace the unit being a factor in value.

 

[John Phoenix]

Wow.

Here's how business works in the "real world"....

If I am selling widgets, and they cost me $10, and I can sell 50 of them at $100, I'll make $5000 - $500 (my cost)= $4,500.

If I find that, by lowering the price to, say, $75 I'll sell twice as many widgets (100), I'll make $7,500 - $1000=$6,500.00.

If I lower the price to $30 and can now sell 200 widgets, I'll make $6,000-$2,000 (my cost @$10/widget) =$4,000.

I'm now selling twice as many widgets in the last example as I was in the second example, but I now have to make twice as many widgets to make a profit of $2,500 LESS!

The sales price has NOTHING to do with how much I paid to produce the widget, other then if it costs me more to produce then I can sell it for, I won't be in business for long.

You HONESTLY think Apple Computer, or any other company can charge $500, 600, 900 for an iPad, but they say to themselves... well, it only cost us $100 because it's made in China, so we really can't charge that much!

No supplier owes you or me or anyone else a detailed breakdown of how much it cost them to produce their product.

If their product it too expensive, nobody will by it. If it's very inexpensive and has "perceived value", it'll sell like hotcakes.

Has NOTHING to do with how much the development, advertising, marketing cost the company!

Of course it does silly. Companies decide on a target price for the products they wish to make. This is in part based on the costs of materials, manufacturing and advertising as well as the competition. Your Apple computer is a bad example. Apple computers today are mostly PC's running on BSD based software - same hardware every standard PC uses at 3 times the price. Even if they don't get the parts at the cheapest price they can, it's still overpriced for what you're getting. Sure people Can charge anything they want and often times get away with robbery. It's called setting a fair market value. Once one or two popular companies can get away with ripping people off, people have a tendency to think it's o.k. It's not o.k. Companies should be held accountable for their price justification by Law. Sadly this is not the case and one of the reasons the U.S. Dollar is so weak.

 

[zoiDman]

... Companies should be held accountable for their price justification by Law. Sadly this is not the case and one of the reasons the U.S. Dollar is so weak.

Say What?

It's call a Free Market for a reason. And the key word is "Free". Sellers can set any price they want. The market will decide what is "Right or Wrong" and what is "Fair".

This thread seems to have fallen into some kind of pit where "Good and Evil" are somehow confused with Provari and Lavatube.

 

[Ande]

I had a teacher once who said that opinions are like buttholes. Everybody has one, but some stink. Or words to that effect. Probably can't say stuff like that in highschools anymore. Shame.

Seriously- A lot of folks here are trying to make a case for a right answer, when what people want, and want to pay for, is highly personal and opinion based. I don't have a lavatube or a provari, so I have no dog in this fight.

But from the descriptions of people who own both, I can see differences. Voltage drop under load is a reasonable measure of the quality of electronic components used in construction. It's not just stainless "steal." It's not just hype- if one PV has a greater voltage drop under load than the other, then the one with less drop is better made.

They'll vape similarly under most circumstances of course- but quality components tend to hold up better.

And for me, it's not really about replacement cost- I don't want to have to replace it. The one that breaks less is the one that I have less need to order again. Less time wasted. Less frustration. More peace of mind.

Someone pointed out that a Casio (quartz digital) may actually keep better time than a Rolex (mechanical). That's true, but it's only true until the Casio breaks. Which in my experience, it will.

Likelihood of breaking is a reasonable concern in purchasing decisions- even if an item is cheap to replace. I don't want my watch to stop when I need to know the time. I don't want my PV to stop when I want to vape.

Ande

 

[Slappy369]

My Provari rocks. I'd by it again in a second. I would go lava tube only if money was tight. I'm a big believer in you get what you pay for.

Good rule of thumb. Don't listen to snake oil salesman.

 

[KeysBum]

IMO This thread has gotten off track and perhaps ridiculous.

Buy whatever you want/can! You decide what is important to you.

I don’t own either a Pro-Varo or a Lave tube or whatever different name retailers are calling it.

I do own two Buzz Pros. I like them. Will I buy another different Personal Vaporizer (PV)? Yes, because I want to, not because I need another, but because this is a hobby that is likely extending my life and I like the Hobby.

What PV has more value/worth is better/worse is so subjective. I don’t really care if my PV can withstand a collision with a Mac truck or can be dropped from a 30’ high scaffold. For me, the chances of that happening are so slim I don’t take that into consideration. But that’s just me, your opinion may differ. But do I care if it is reliable? Yes, but probably not as much as one who doesn’t have multiple redundant backups.

Rolex vs. Casio/other watch. I wish I didn’t even chime in on that but I did. It’s not a good analogy for PV’s. Rolex’s are expensive jewelry that require expensive maintenance every five years of so. The service cost being more than the price of a nice titanium Citizen that really does keep better time and will last more than five years. We should leave watches out of this discussion because the analogy just does not apply. No one buys a Rolex because it keeps great time.

The Pro-Vari is hand crafted vs. Mass produced. That has massive value to some and none to others. It may well be the Rolls Royce of PV’s. The LP may be the mass produced Volkswagen. (of course, as soon as I use an analogy I’ll get flamed for it) So affordability and functionality and style and craftsmanship and durability and bling quotient and etc. and etc. have to be weighed, and will be weighed very differently by different people. No one is wrong. Again, very subjective.

Buy what you want. Who gives a crap what anyone else thinks you should do.

Disclamier: I just polished off a bottle of Wild Turkey. I might change my mind when I read this tomorrow.

 

[rabernet]

Of course it does silly. Companies decide on a target price for the products they wish to make. This is in part based on the costs of materials, manufacturing and advertising as well as the competition. Your Apple computer is a bad example. Apple computers today are mostly PC's running on BSD based software - same hardware every standard PC uses at 3 times the price. Even if they don't get the parts at the cheapest price they can, it's still overpriced for what you're getting. Sure people Can charge anything they want and often times get away with robbery. It's called setting a fair market value. Once one or two popular companies can get away with ripping people off, people have a tendency to think it's o.k. It's not o.k. Companies should be held accountable for their price justification by Law. Sadly this is not the case and one of the reasons the U.S. Dollar is so weak.

Robbery? No one is holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to choose one over the other. Whatever happened to personal responsibility and making smart choices within your means? I don't own either, but I DO know that I'd rather NOT have government get any more involved in regulating private business and free enterprise than it already is.

I'll buy what I want, and what I can afford, when I decide I want or need another PV. For now, I am enjoying my "training wheels" and learning my way around vaping. But I don't understand why you seem to be so personally invested in "winning" some silly argument on the internet?

 

[Shel]

Companies should be held accountable for their price justification by Law. Sadly this is not the case and one of the reasons the U.S. Dollar is so weak.

Do you live in the U.S.?

My head hurts.....

P.S. I'm seriously considering a LavaTube. I purchased the ProVari a year ago, and it's worked great, without any issues. When I purchased the ProVari, the LavaTube wasn't an option.

That being said, my points have nothing to do with LavaTube vs. ProVari! I'm just as likely to purchase another ProVari, especially if I were to lose the one I now have.

I just think some of the arguments have been rather ill informed, and I did find it offensive to attack ProVape, which I've found to be a stand-up, reputable company that stands by their product. The fact that some other company was able, nearly a year later, to come out with a less expensive, near copy of the ProVari doesn't diminish what ProVape has created, sold, and supported for the past year.

 

[zoiDman]

OK.

The Votes are in and we have a Winner.

After careful Consideration and Reading Multiple Threads of all the Feature Pros and Cons, Price, Irrelevant and somewhat Bizarre Esoteric Comparison Analogies and factoring in such things as Foreign Trade in a Free Market, the Stability of the Dollar and the Current US Fiscal State, here are the results.

The Lavatube is the Best VVPV Ever Made and is Utterly Without Faults. The Provari is Complete Rip-Off and the Only people who buy it are Wall Street Fat Cats who should have Protesters camped out at the Front Gates of their Mansions.

The Provari is the Best VVPV Ever Made and is Utterly Without Faults. The Lavatube is a Poorly made Chinesse POS and is Only purchased by People Living Below the Poverty Line. It is also Singlehandedly Undermining the US Economy.

Both The Lavatube and the Provari are Great VVPV’s and both have Good and Bad Features. Either choice would be a Fine and it is more a matter of personal choice of which one is Best.

So there you are.

 

[jtpjc]

This whole thread is bull. Love my KR808. Sorry, I meant my eGo-T. Or was it Leo? Don't know, they all work.

 

[conan]

Here is a very good review (as always) by GeekGirlVaper. LavaTube

 

[zoiDman]

Just an FYI for anyone who has purchased a Lavatube Recently.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/mods-discussion/249432-lava-tube-battery-scam.html

 

[retird]

Don't have a "dog in this fight", but did a little research and noticed that the warranty on the LavaTube (Knight Rider, etc) seems to be only with the vendors. I looked at three vendors and the warranty was 14 days, 60 days, or 1 year, depending on the vendor. I have found no warranty info that indicates that the manufacturer in China offers any warranty.

Anybody have any info on a Manufacturers Warranty.....

For my 2-cents......if you like the ProVari.......GREAT......if you like the Lavatube......GREAT.......I like the Darwin.......GREAT.....

 

[JDSupreme]

Wow I thought when I first opened this thread it would be useful, but instead, it's some guy who's been vaping for less than a year telling us all what mod to buy. Bro, we get it, you think the Provari is a ripoff, good for you, thanks for your opinion, now let the grownups talk...

VV is VV is VV. I own a BP and IP, they both work, and are basically the same thing. I recently ordered a Provari because I wanted a great, durable VV mod that I can check resistance with. I wasn't planning on getting a Provari until I started reading the posts from the BP/IP inventor in the Vapers Lounge Facebook group. Once this happened (and once I saw the blue led option, I HATE red) I made a moral decision to move my Notcigs mods into the backup category and order a Provari.

If I wanted another cheap VV mod, I would have ordered another Notcigs product. But I wanted THE BEST, so I bought the best.

So now I see it like this: Budget? Get a LT, BP, or IP. Quality? Provari all day, or a Darwin if that's your cup o tea