Lemon Juice And Salt Test

[exogenesis]

Pete, but the other 25% is just water, the data sheet (msds) would state any other chemicals present.

Thanks Boomer,
I was thinking the reason salt might help is due to sodium ions being
available to form the far more soluble salts of any dissolving organic gunk.
Perhaps it's worth adding a little salt to the phos.acid soak to see if it helps.

Toker, that's good confirmatory info, that you only use light coloured flavours,
and that you can see the coil to know when to clean it before it's too late.

 

[Closet Toker]

I've never had my coils get "black" or gunky. Usually when I notice lower performance, my atomizer is just a light brown. That's when I clean it. The biggest problem I've had with the m401 atomizer is build up in the air hole and contacts (I do blow hole out with air and maintain contacts). I am a glutton for Nicotine Vapor and I dip/drip alot.
I mostly vape the "light" colored liquids, like Marlboro, Camel flavors I do not like all of the fancy flavors as they tend to taste very "fake" to me. I would suspect people who use liquids that contain high concentrate of colored flavors are more susceptable to "black" gunk?
If that's the case, I would recommend more frequent cleaning, not letting atomizer get that bad in the first place.
I have only had my atomizer for a month, quite possible it could burn out tommorrow because of this cleaner. But until that happens, I will continue to "risk it".

**PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE IS CRUCIAL**

Thanks for your input though. (sorry for the re-post) Didn't see your response. Also note about the "more frequent cleaning".

 

[Waffler]

Hello

I was wondering if anyone has tried using CLR on their atomizer, I dont know if it would work on the black gunk or not. Just curious if anyone has tried.

According to the Material Safety Data Sheet it is listed as an Aqueous Acidic Cleaner. Here is a list of warnings and potentail health effects.

WARNING OVERVIEW: Irritating to eyes, skin, respiratory tract and mucous membranes. Risk of burns to eyes, skin, and respiratory tract. May be harmful or fatal if swallowed. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing mist or dust. Keep container closed when not in use.

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS
ROUTES OF EXPOSURE: Eyes. Skin. Inhalation. Ingestion.
TARGET ORGANS: No data.
EYE CONTACT: Severe irritation and blurred vision. Effects may vary depending on length of exposure, solution concentration, and first aid measures. Prolonged contact may cause permanent damage.
SKIN CONTACT: Causes skin irritation. Prolonged contact may cause dermatitis, and itching.
INHALATION: Irritation, breathing difficulties, headaches, dizziness.
INGESTION: Oral burns, vomiting, and gastrointestinal disturbance.
MEDICAL CONDITIONS AGGRAVATED BY EXPOSURE TO PRODUCT: Eye, skin, and respiratory disorders.
CANCER INFORMATION: This product does not contain >0.10% of the known potential carcinogens listed in NTP, IRAC, or OSHA.

DO NOT MIX WITH BLEACH, OR ANY OTHER PRODUCT AS TOXIC FUMES MAY RESULT. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.

Components:
Water, Lactic Acid (OSHA Hazard), Gluconic Acid, Lauryldimethyl Hydroxysulaine, and Propylene Glycol Normal Butyl Ether (OSHA Hazard)

Source(s):
jelmar.com/MSDS.htm

 

[Closet Toker]

I've read that it does not work very well. Personally, I have never needed to try it. You'll know why, by reading previous posts on this thread.

I think CLR is more for breaking down mineral deposits (like lime, calium, etc.)

 

[kinabaloo]

The undeclared portion of Nucalgon phosphoric acid cleaner is just water. This, and hydrogen peroxide, are the two strongest action atomizer cleaners currently known.

Exogenesis - interesting notion about sodium ions. Perhaps a simple copper penny clean test will show a difference. But I'm sceptical, as the origins seemingly for the salt was using it as a mild scourer (i.e. as a soft solid).

 

[Boomer]

Exogenesis - interesting notion about sodium ions. Perhaps a simple copper penny clean test will show a difference. But I'm sceptical, as the origins seemingly for the salt was using it as a mild scourer (i.e. as a soft solid).

No theres deffinately something more to it than the abrasive action of the salt. I do not understand it myself but adding salt to the lemon juice does cause a reaction which makes the lemon juice much better at cleaning.

Like i said i do not understand how it works just that it does and you can test this like you said with the penny test.

I did find all the information about it on a website not related at all to e-cigs but can't find it now.

I will keep trying to find it.

 

[klum]

The undeclared portion of Nucalgon phosphoric acid cleaner is just water. This, and hydrogen peroxide, are the two strongest action atomizer cleaners currently known.

Exogenesis - interesting notion about sodium ions. Perhaps a simple copper penny clean test will show a difference. But I'm sceptical, as the origins seemingly for the salt was using it as a mild scourer (i.e. as a soft solid).

One the other thread, it has some trying the nickel safe Nucalgon cleaner. This has lower Phosphoric acid but adds citric acid (less then 5% by wt). I saw some using lemon juice to clean. Did the tests of the nickel safe cleaner fair much worse than the full strength cleaner?

kevin

 

[kinabaloo]

klum, not heard any answer on that. It seems logical though that it will either take twice as long or be no better than half as effective.

Is it half the price? Thought not

 

[chuckie]

I had a weak atm. about 2weeks old . I steamed it,than soaked it for 24hrs in new calgon, rinsed and steamed again. I let it dry in the oven,primed it 5 drops ,placed in a new cart,and guess what? Absouletly no difference. I get just as good results just steaming ,than using a hair dryer.

 

[kinabaloo]

chuckie - maybe that atomizer is naturally weak? Or was it better before?

 

[chuckie]

Hi kin,
When it was new, it was fine. Over the last week it had dropped down 2 about 20-30% of what it was,very weak. After the soaking it's still about 20-30%. I tried it again a few minutes ago,just to be sure, but still no change.I'm thinking it's going on the operating table tomorrow just 2 see what it looks like

 

[kinabaloo]

chuckie - perhaps you can try TriSodiumPhosphate (TSP) based cleaner to see if that works: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...2669-instead-ice-cleaner-acid.html#post193493 This was proposed just today.

Or the heat-in-place hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) method. Or just soak in the peroxide. If you have any. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...simple-cheap-effective-method.html#post157632

Might be worth trying something else before the autopsy

 

[jbbishop]

Based on user reports so far it has been my intention to heat a solution of lemon juice and salt for cleaning, with the idea in mind of the test reported of how salt on a soldering iron in some way prevented further accumulations of build up. It has been my intention to get some citric acid (based on my earlier post concerning de-scalers used for cleaning coffee equipment) and to mix it up to about a 75% solution and try heating it for cleaning the atomizers - but I don't know of any indications for the effect of citric acid on nichrome. At this point my intentions are focused on preventive maintenance. I'm also using steam cleaning with my espresso maker.

Now I'm intrigued by this report: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/experiments-equipment/12669-instead-ice-cleaner-acid.html

These are the ones I'm focusing on before moving to the phosphoric acid approach.

 

[kinabaloo]

The nichrome will be safe.

 

[jbbishop]

Then there was a recent report of someone having success with a combination of baking soda and vinegar. Again, from the standpoint of preventative maintenance, perhaps utilizing a combination of these lesser aggressive cleaning methods may be a useful approach. If a combination of baking soda and vinegar may be useful as one report has suggested, then I would advocate bumping it up a little and consider using a combination of washing soda and vinegar. To make washing soda, bake baking soda in a 450 degree F oven for about 1 to 1.5 hours and store in an airtight container. The ph variance between the washing soda and the acetic acid will be greater but shouldn't pose any dangers I wouldn't believe.

 

[kinabaloo]

Yes, that might work even better.

The baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) + vinegar reaction is described nicely here: Baking Soda and Vinegar

The decomposition reaction by heating sodium bicarbonate to get the more basic sodium carbonate is described here General Chemistry Online: FAQ: Introduction to inorganic chemistry: What happens when sodium bicarbonate is heated?

However, using plain sodium bicarbonate will be more straightforward for most people.

 

[surbitonPete]

View attachment 1669

Just for interest....this atomizer coil in the photo has been soaked for hours, even days in virtually every household and garage chemical that is possible....including several mixtures of chemicals. The only reason you can see some of the coil is because I have physically, carefully broken away some of the gunk to reveal the coil...interestingly this one hasn't actually broken at the point of soldering. ....not one thing I have tried has showed the slightest sign of 'dissolving' the gunk.

 

[kinabaloo]

Hi Pete,

How about trying the latest 2-stage clean - a variation on the baking soda + vinegar.

Start by making sure the coil interior is fully dry.
Dissolve some baking soda into a little warm water, as much as you can.
Immerse the coil/atty and wait a few minutes for the solution to sink in.
Take it out without rinsing.
And drop into a cup of vinegar.
It will fizz for a minute.
Rinse. Dry and prime.

 

[kinabaloo]

Chuckie - any chance the problem is a weak battery? Also, you could try cleaning the contacts between the atty and the battery (both).

 

[Sun Vaporer]

View attachment 1669

Just for interest....this atomizer coil in the photo has been soaked for hours, even days in virtually every household and garage chemical that is possible....including several mixtures of chemicals. The only reason you can see some of the coil is because I have physically, carefully broken away some of the gunk to reveal the coil...interestingly this one hasn't actually broken at the point of soldering. ....not one thing I have tried has showed the slightest sign of 'dissolving' the gunk.

Pete, thanks for the photo as it really confirms what I have been finding myself--this residue is going no place fast with most of these methods but I have found something new that is SAFE and may work--I have it on order and will only report if it works as it is SAFE to use---thanks again Pete---Sun