Link to webcast of Dec. 17 FDA Public Hearing on NRT & Innovative Products

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The Wiz

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I'm fairly certain that by not being classified as an NRT we were able to escape a ban the last time when njoy went to court, yes? I don't want people classifying e-cigs as an NRT, because it's not. Strict NRT's are used to quit nicotine dependency, and while some users use e-cigs to that end, many do not and that's not the purpose of e-cigs. I, for one, do not see this as a means to quit in the immediate future. It's a way for me to continue to enjoy nicotine while enjoying the health benefits of NOT smoking. It's like Bill said, no this is not a safe alternative to smoking but, like smokeless, it IS a SAFER alternative to smoking. Anyone who's made the switch can vouch for that. And while using an e-cig, i did not go through DT's or have personality altering mood swings. That alone is enough to convince me, and thousands of others.
Well said Slim! While I still may disagree that vaping is unsafe(based on lack of evidence from long term use),my doctors sure like how my overall health has improved these past few years. I have no intention on quiting vaping until someone proves e-cigs are unsafe. I am still a firm believer that vaping is here to stay,I'll pay a small tax rate to continue to live my life the way I choose.

Many thanks to all of the members here who attended todays meeting.

:)Wiz!
 

Tanks

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Sorry -- but I find this a bit scarey that CASAA seems to be indicating that "taxes" should not be a concern. Surely, part of the job is insuring that e-liquid not be taxed at levels that have been proposed for ALL tobacco products....except the illusive cigars. As I recall, there have been several proposed legislation attempts in 2012. There are surely more to come in 2013.

From how things have progressed nationwide with some areas banning the use of E-cigs, I am far from seeing a trust that our legislators give a hoot about harm.

CASAA had been great and deserves respect and support. There is a lot of work to do.

It should be understood by now that our legislators (and Government as a whole) don't care about us. like Tupac said: "They don't give a .... about us" and like Michael Jackson said: "They don't really care about us!"

It's all about the money. Every decision made by the powers at be are either for some sort of profit or to make their lobbying friends happy so they continue to send donations their way. Of course they throw us citizens the occasional bone to keep the masses happy but that is all. When it comes to vaping, big tobacco has so much money and influence that we are fighting an uphill battle. Our enemies are firmly entrenched and armed to the teeth. The more wide-spread and powerful the vaping community becomes the harder they will fight. We can't get out of this without something negative. ost likely along the lines of taxation but I am ok with paying a e-juice tax.
 

Placebo Effect

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I attended the meeting and it was quite the day. I stayed overnight at a hotel with CASAA's resident scientist Dr. Carl Phillips. I woke up at 5:30 A.M. to get revise my speech and get breakfast, and we headed over to the meeting at around 7:15 A.M.

The FDA campus was really, really pushing the fact that HHS properties are "tobacco-free." There were, however, no upper lip checkers during the meeting, so shockingly the enforcement seemed to be rather lax on the smokeless side.

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I was on first at around 8:10 A.M. I had no idea where the time indicator was, so I ran through my 1,250 words pretty fast. I also didn't know how close to get to the microphone, as my voice when public speaking is quite bold and loud, so I didn't want to end up sounding muffled.

Unfortunately, there was not one person on the panel who seemed to recognize that there is a *problem* with the efficacy of NRTs. Yes, they recognize that the current standards need work, but none of the questioned the GSK and J&J reps on the low success rates or why NRTs should even continue to be a drug if they can't get even 20% of users to quit. I didn't expect anything of the two representatives from the Center for Tobacco Products, but I expected a bit more from the those from the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research.

David Abrams from the American Legacy Foundation briefly spoke on electronic cigarettes. Abrams and Legacy had long called for a ban on electronic cigarettes, and he has since argued that until large, specially qualified clinical trials show their efficacy, there is no evidence that e-cigarettes help smokers quit.* Today, Abrams sounded like he had long resigned himself to the fact that e-cigarettes are going to beat out NRTs once those clinical trials are revealed. However, he still highlighted the need for that evidence, and having seen him get incredibly preachy on Huffington Post Live when talking about e-cigs, I still came away thinking that he'd be thrilled to have e-cigarettes off the market entirely.

*Of course, the problem with this argument is that once it's shown that the Super Vapor 303 is better than NRT for smoking abstinence, those who are against e-cigarettes will continue to argue that all the other e-cigarettes on the market are unproven.

One really annoying moment during the hearing was a presentation from a law professor from the University of Maryland. She came off like a rabid prohibitionist, and even accused R.J. Reynolds of having ulterior motives for getting into the NRT business.
 

Vocalek

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Will CASAA issue a news release regarding the meeting? GSK already have. GSK also state they will submit written comments into the FDA public docket on its position regarding Sec. 918 in Jan., 2013. Are there more details regarding this? Is CASAA and others invited to do the same?

The call for written comments is part of the US government process for issuing regulation and/or gathering information in preparation to issue regulations. The call for written comments is NOT by invitation only. All must be published in the Federal Register and allow a certain amount of time for the public to submit comments.

So ANYONE can submit comments, and that includes YOU, (and you, and you, and you.)

Yes, CASAA will be taking advantage of this opportunity to fill in knowledge gaps for the committee that is charged with writing the report, based on what they heard during the public meeting and what they will read when all the public comments have been submitted.

As has been mentioned several times in this thread, CASAA issued a Call to Awareness. CASAA: Call to Awareness - FDA Public Hearing on Nicotine Reduction Therapy Products

The CTA provides the background on what yesterday's meeting was about and gives a direct link to the Docket item on Regulations.gov. On that page there is a "Comment Now" button you can click.

On the Comment page, you can type up to 2,000 characters into the Comment field. Most people type "See Attachment" and upload a document that contains their comment. If yours is under 2,000 words, you can just type it directly into the Comment field.

CASAA's CTA page even provides guidance on what to write about under the headings "What you can say" and "Tell the FDA". The first part should be easy. You are telling your own story of how smoke-free alternatives (such as e-cigarettes, snus, etc.) helped you to reduce how much you smoke and/or helped you to stop smoking altogether. Nobody knows your own story as well as you do. There is no need to cover every point listed under "Tell the FDA". Pick out one or two that resonates with you and paraphrase it as a conclusion to your comment.

After all, the whole idea of leaving a comment is to tell the government what you think they should be doing to make things better for the citizens.
 

Vocalek

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Vocalek

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CASAA and some of the other speakers addressed how NRTs could be improved by increasing the nicotine in the products, to more closely match the nicotine levels of smokers.

GSK, on the other hand, recommended "combination therapy"--using two of their products at the same time.

Hmmm...which is better for their bottom line?

Which is better for the smoker?
 

Berylanna

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CASAA and some of the other speakers addressed how NRTs could be improved by increasing the nicotine in the products, to more closely match the nicotine levels of smokers.

GSK, on the other hand, recommended "combination therapy"--using two of their products at the same time.

Hmmm...which is better for their bottom line?

Which is better for the smoker?

That is actually an open question. The guy pushing combination therapy pointed out that there are two kinds of products: long-lasting, time-release, and quick hit, for sudden externally-triggered cravings.

In fact, it sounds a lot like coffee vs. cigarettes to me.

The idea was to be on patches in general, and grab a lozenge or something when a craving hits. And he is right that having that covered by insurance would be better for a lot of people.

If people can get NRT to work for them, I think it's better than vaping. It's not for ME, but others should have the option. Me, I still need the hand-to-mouth.

BTW, one of my main reasons for listening yesterday was to get a good look at my buddies in action, but all I could see were distant dolls. BUMMER, I really wanted to watch y'all as speakers. Your hair was dark?
 

Striker911

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Striker911

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I did yesterday when I tried to watch it live. It was an update. When I click the link and push pause it does not buffer. I have to let most things buffer some even at 240p on youtube. But on that video player the pause was just a pause and it would not buffer at all. I let it sit for 5 minutes and it just went back to cutting out when I pushed play again.
Did you download the Adobe thingy? That is required to view it I believe...Hope that helps....
 

Penner

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I have a Mac, the first link worked (without having to download the Adobe viewer). I actually tried to download the Adobe viewer on the first link, but it wouldn't download, so I just watched whatever came up.

However, none of the other links work (or even give the option to download anything, the screen is just blank, no sound or video).
 
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