Local NW Floridian with severe injuries from exploding ecig battery

[stash]

I feel bad for the man injured, but at least some knowledge has come out of it for the entire community. I am glad nothing like this happened to me, I seem to have had every bad habit possible since I have been vaping.

I do tend to plug in batteries before the run out, which I suppose is good... but i ALWAYS have one charging... i dont care if the light turned green 10 hours ago i would let it continue to charge until i needed to swap them out. Overnight, one would be charging... out of the house for 24 hours visiting family and one would be in the charger waiting for me when I got home... I never even thought that was a problem... i just figured i was making sure i had a good, full charge when i swapped batteries.

after reading through about 2 pages of this thread i walked into my office and unplugged the battery charger and put it in my desk drawer (yes, the light was green as always). i will from now on try to charge batteries but not all the way full, and NEVER leave one plugged in when i am sleeping or especially out of the house.

i really hope that this incident is more due to the man being uneducated instead of something that we need to really concern ourselves with.

when i first started vaping i thought i was doing it to ween myself away from nicotine all together... then i started thinking that maybe i didnt even have to worry about stopping vaping... now i have started to question if vaping is something that should be done to ween ourselves off nicotine completely instead of just being a replacement for analogs.

i love my T-Rex, I just wonder if they are all a disaster waiting to happen or if the danger is no greater than what we assume every time we get into a car... confusing times for sure

 

[ambientech]

First I hope this guy fully recovers as this is terrible.


I have been using lithium batteries for many years now in my other hobby. We play with lipoly's with voltages up to 50V and 20,000mah.That is 12 5000mah cells in series and 12 more in parallel. The problem and why we love lithium batteries is they hold tremendous amounts of energy in a small package. They can also release that energy almost instantly in the right conditions. In my other hobby we have had a handful of lithium cells go thermal for no apparent reason but most have a reason and that is normally user error,overcharging, or physical damage which results in a short. Those that use lithium batteries need to educate themselves otherwise they need not use them. It is clearly written that lithium cells are dangerous if not used properly. If you didn't know this take some personal responsibility and read the warnings that come with every lithium battery.

 

[cbrociuos]

First I hope this guy fully recovers as this is terrible.


I have been using lithium batteries for many years now in my other hobby. We play with lipoly's with voltages up to 50V and 20,000mah.That is 12 5000mah cells in series and 12 more in parallel. The problem and why we love lithium batteries is they hold tremendous amounts of energy in a small package. They can also release that energy almost instantly in the right conditions. In my other hobby we have had a handful of lithium cells go thermal for no apparent reason but most have a reason and that is normally user error,overcharging, or physical damage which results in a short. Those that use lithium batteries need to educate themselves otherwise they need not use them. It is clearly written that lithium cells are dangerous if not used properly. If you didn't know this take some personal responsibility and read the warnings that come with every lithium battery.

your other hobby wouldnt happen to be the chevy volt would it? just messin' with you. what hobby are you using all those cells for?

 

[ambientech]

RC Airplanes and Heli's I personally only go up to 8s 5000 mah but many of my buddies use more

 

[cbrociuos]

RC Airplanes and Heli's I personally only go up to 8s 5000 mah but many of my buddies use more

thats what i figured. when you said 50volts i wasnt sure though. lipos go up like the fourth when they go!

i race rc cars. 6s lipos are the biggest for us. 2s and 4s mostly. 8000mah max. usually around 5000mah though.

why arent the C ratings listed on the batteries we use in our mods? this bothers me. it should be required!

 

[Rocketman]

Because the seller does not want to be embarrassed.

RC packs, C rating is a selling point. With e-cig it's $ rating

 

[cbrociuos]

Because the seller does not want to be embarrassed.

RC packs, C rating is a selling point. With e-cig it's $ rating

true, im not expecting much, but it would be nice to employ ohms law to ensure the battery is capable of handling the load im putting on it. hell id be willing to bet most people would be willing to pay a little more for better batteries. hell even the "better" aw imr's i have no idea what they are rated for, i would guess not much.

 

[Rocketman]

Pick a size, and Google it.
Pick someplace like LightHound

For example:
It seems the AW 16340 IMR 550mah 3.7 volt is listed as 8C.
Believable?

Some CR123 size cells might have a higher mah rating (if believable) but with a 1 C (or a little less) max discharge rating

(that's so 2 minutes ago )

 

[DC2]

Seriously guys, I'm hearing a bunch of techy battery geeks talking about how people should know this stuff.
You are so wrong if you think the average joe even knows that there is something he needs to know.

Come on out of your little world and join the rest of us.
Because we are just trying to stop smoking here.

 

[Rocketman]

DC2, agree that most don't know what they don't know.
Spec sheets are not nearly as interesting as youtube reviews.

I guess the trick is, after you find you need to research something, learn to weed out the HYPE.

 

[evosil98]

Here is a post in a led flashlight forum about a man being injured by exploding 18650 batteries in a stacked configuration... I post it because it has a nice set of photos of just how destructive these batteries can be when they go off.

Ultrafire 18650 3000mA exploded

Imagine that exploding inches from our faces. Saw that coffee maker. It could kill someone.

Safety should be everyones top priority. Consumers and manufacturers alike.

 

[SubSplat]

Seriously guys, I'm hearing a bunch of techy battery geeks talking about how people should know this stuff.
You are so wrong if you think the average joe even knows that there is something he needs to know.

Come on out of your little world and join the rest of us.
Because we are just trying to stop smoking here.

The way I see it:

If you're using a standard PV, you get to be Average "Just-Want-To-Vape" Joe and the vendor is solely responsible for safety.

But if you're using a mod, you're out of Average Joe territory. Sure, vendors should still be responsible about selling quality equipment. But the emphasis here is on should. It's not even always possible, given the amount of choices that have to be up to the user. One man's garbage is another man's treasure. Ultimately, you are responsible for what you get, how you use it, and educating yourself on what you're doing.

Can't go messing with fire and then blame someone else if you get burned.

 

[Semiretired]

From this thread and a few others in this forum anyone actually taking the time to read them and learning from them would know that there are a lot of variables involved with e-cigs, batteries, chargers, mixing and last of all taking care with all this stuff. If a case ever goes to court I doubt a person will ever win against a mod maker as long as they gave warnings up front about the care needed. Proving Intentional Intent to harm would be hard to prove and proving that you as the user did not follow all safety requirements would be hard to prove. This incident comes up on as many lawyer blogs as it does news blogs.

 

[gumchewer]

A lot of people modify a lot of off the shelf items and they blow up.
In the words of Tim Allen- "I needed more power so I re-wired it."

One thing I have determined from all this reading is that I have no more desire to stack batteries, a single battery seems to be less of a hassle, and one less thing I have to worry about. I'm not willing to go back to college to become a battery engineer and I have no desire to pretend that I know what I don't know. Not knocking any body who does or is, you guys are a wealth of knowledge.
I only vape not to smoke. I only smoked because I worry too much.
Throat his, visible exhale vapor, lasts all day or at least most of it, charges in my car while I'm driving, and more than a few options on interchangable accessories.
That's why I like starter kits rathar than a'la'carte.

I'm good. It's just you and me ,Ego.

 

[asha23]

I have read nearly every post in this thread and it's great that people are coming together and discussing this issue sensibly and intelligently.

I might have missed something, but would the protection circuitry in more modern mods such as the Lavatube or Provari stop this form of catastrophic battery failure? Or is it the case that if a battery is going to fail, no amount of circuit protection will stop it from doing so. I'm going to be drilling some big old vent holes into my Lavatube, as it doesn't appear to have any at all.

I think the worst possible outcome of this event is if the mod in question was a high-end device. This would definitely put the use of mods and their safety into question completely. These newer devices sell themselves on all their protection circuitry and could perhaps be giving people a false sense of security.

This whole thing has got me questioning everything, which is a good thing, as I'm also doing far more research than I would normally have done into the devices I use. What's bad is that the average consumer won't be doing this. I'm have also recommended vaping to a number of friends and they are deferring to my previous research into the safety of these devices. Whilst this is a one-off event. It really does call in to question the safety of our habit in my mind.

 

[milo hobo]

I think "we" are the average consumer. Take vaporsforum, ecf, and most of the other forums, whatever they be, and we make up the majority of mod users. Those who do not frequent forums, are likely in close contact with someone who is on one of the forums discussing these topics. I suspect that almost all of the people who stack batteries have heard of this issue and know of the discussions around the topic.

 

[markfm]

One twist on forum members being the typical consumer is that there are a fair number of recommendations made to people in the New Members zone to "go get a mod", often with variants of "if I knew then what I know now, I'd just have bought an X right away". The really new person doesn't know what an experienced long-term vaper knows, doesn't know what they don't know so can't even ask the right questions. If 5 people tell a new person to go buy a product X, and by-the-way don't forget you can stack batteries for HV, they aren't going to know that mod X maybe doesn't have much in the way of safety features, or that only certain batteries are safe.

I've always been comfortable suggesting a simple non-regulated, no-inline-battery, PT with 2A dedicated wall wart to try 5V vaping (and don't go below 2.5 ohms), unlikely they'll get in much trouble with it. That's what I used, and then when it was time to go to VV I went for what I personally believed was a well-designed mod, based on being an engineer, paying attention to the technical discussions of available products, and taking my time.

 

[asha23]

I think "we" are the average consumer. Take vaporsforum, ecf, and most of the other forums, whatever they be, and we make up the majority of mod users. Those who do not frequent forums, are likely in close contact with someone who is on one of the forums discussing these topics. I suspect that almost all of the people who stack batteries have heard of this issue and know of the discussions around the topic.

I don't know if this is absolutely the case. I personally know 5 or 6 people who have made the change to e-cigarettes without ever knowing more than what someone at a kiosk told them. They see me using my Riva 510 and were completely unaware of other options than the standard mall-type devices.

 

[want to quit]

2.5 million people vape in the US = a billion or trillion puffs and one dude gets owned by a self made mod. We should all calm down and see the numbers as long as you use a "safe" pv and don't stack unsafe batteries you should be fine.

A while back when I was smoking I burned a hole into my pants almost damaging lil benny and crashing into another car. Nothing out there is safe I almost died from eating a chopstick, hack I almost broke my neck when doing the sheets on my bed.

Again 2.5 million in the US alone vape and 1 dude gets hurt chances are small that any of us experience what he had to endure.

 

[gumchewer]

One twist on forum members being the typical consumer is that there are a fair number of recommendations made to people in the New Members zone to "go get a mod", often with variants of "if I knew then what I know now, I'd just have bought an X right away". The really new person doesn't know what an experienced long-term vaper knows, doesn't know what they don't know so can't even ask the right questions. If 5 people tell a new person to go buy a product X, and by-the-way don't forget you can stack batteries for HV, they aren't going to know that mod X maybe doesn't have much in the way of safety features, or that only certain batteries are safe.

I've always been comfortable suggesting a simple non-regulated, no-inline-battery, PT with 2A dedicated wall wart to try 5V vaping (and don't go below 2.5 ohms), unlikely they'll get in much trouble with it. That's what I used, and then when it was time to go to VV I went for what I personally believed was a well-designed mod, based on being an engineer, paying attention to the technical discussions of available products, and taking my time.

That's what I'm saying.
You guys make it sound so easy, and I'm not saying that's wrong. I'm glad you are there to answer the questions intelligently, I'm sure I'm not alone. There may be a few things I could baffle you with my brilliance about. Not on this page .
When it comes to this though, I gotta know when to hold em and when to fold em.
A man must know his limitations and just watch and learn.
was my first bike a Harley? H...L no.
I think that's where some find trouble.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and too little can be devistating.