Local NW Floridian with severe injuries from exploding ecig battery

[stephpd]

Just out of curiosity I Googled toothbrush battery explosion. Probably billions of toothbrushes out there, far less battery operated ones. So a comparision of these would seem more appropriate then maybe cell phones or laptops.

And surprise, surprise. Just last November there was a recall on one brand in Canada when at least nine of them blew up in peoples hands. And these use regular alkaline batteries.
Global BC | Colgate-Palmolive recalls electric toothbrushes after reports some 'exploded'
Colgate Motion Electric Toothbrush Recall - Health Canada Advisory 2011-11-02

Another guy lost sight in one eye last year when looking to 'fix' his sons "Big Bird toothbrush" and it blew up. Again not rechargeable but alkaline batteries.
Ocala Star-Banner - Google News Archive Search

That's far more then what I've seen on e-cig exploding, unless they were on a charger. I'd guess the numbers are relatively the same with the 'electric toothbrushes' as to E-cigs.

 

[dirquist]

Just out of curiosity I Googled toothbrush battery explosion. Probably billions of toothbrushes out there, far less battery operated ones. So a comparision of these would seem more appropriate then maybe cell phones or laptops.

And surprise, surprise. Just last November there was a recall on one brand in Canada when at least nine of them blew up in peoples hands. And these use regular alkaline batteries.
Global BC | Colgate-Palmolive recalls electric toothbrushes after reports some 'exploded'
Colgate Motion Electric Toothbrush Recall - Health Canada Advisory 2011-11-02

Another guy lost sight in one eye last year when looking to 'fix' his sons "Big Bird toothbrush" and it blew up. Again not rechargeable but alkaline batteries.
Ocala Star-Banner - Google News Archive Search

That's far more then what I've seen on e-cig exploding, unless they were on a charger. I'd guess the numbers are relatively the same with the 'electric toothbrushes' as to E-cigs.

I think people are missing the difference here. If a toothbrush or cell phone or laptop explodes it is mostly a poof. It may catch fire and it may cause lots of damage. The ecig however when we are talking about tube mods are much different. What is happening is the pressure from the gases in the battery are filling a solid aluminum or steel tube causing a much greater explosion. Imagine the strength of the metal tube compared to a plastic casing. When the metal tube actually blows up it is because there is a serious amount of pressure build up. It becomes a bomb quite literally.

 

[Uncle Willie]

I think people are missing the difference here. If a toothbrush or cell phone or laptop explodes it is mostly a poof. It may catch fire and it may cause lots of damage. The ecig however when we are talking about tube mods are much different. What is happening is the pressure from the gases in the battery are filling a solid aluminum or steel tube causing a much greater explosion. Imagine the strength of the metal tube compared to a plastic casing. When the metal tube actually blows up it is because there is a serious amount of pressure build up. It becomes a bomb quite literally.

exactly ..

 

[Katy]

When I said the manufacturer bears the responsibility, not the consumer...

The manufacturers are selling potential pipe bombs to little old ladies.
Some little old ladies will use the internet to find the cheapest batteries and chargers available.

They can not and should not be expected to understand anything about battery safety.
Therefore they MUST be informed by the manufacturer in a way that is impossible to ignore.

Beyond that point, things get complicated...


EDIT: No offense to little old ladies
EDIT: I'm sure there are plenty of little old ladies that know more about battery safety than I ever will
EDIT:

I may be a "little old lady" (70yrs 105lbs) but I'm still chuckling over this one. Not at all offended. By the way, I'm seriously thinking of selling my SB and getting a couple of wood mods. They may be only 3.7 volts but with AW batteries, I figure they would blow the door off rather than my teeth. I still need those teeth. Seriously, there are many people who start with ecigs from vendors in a mall somewhere. Eventually, they may take a little time out of their busy working days to check out some stuff on the internet and buy something "bigger." Unfortunately those folks don't have the inclination or time to thoroughly investigate safety features. They may end up on another forum ... one that I ran into that had more four letter words than helpful information. Thank heavens I found ECF early and regularly read it but I'm retired, my "kids" all have their own homes & families, and I have the time and natural desire to know everything.

 

[orson]

As someone who works in a very oddly regulated industry (construction, namely residential remodeling) I see a lot of correlations between the potential lack of safety in e-cig products and shoddy construction work.

The majority of the posters on these boards are hyper focused on price. I think it's great to save money vaping, but to me the health benefit is the primary reason to replace analogues and if I save money that's just a bonus.

You're never going to achieve product safety in an unregulated industry where the consumer is hyper-focused on price. Especially when new users come here and post questions and immediately start getting regaled about how this is cheaper than that, with very much less mention of brand reliability track records and safety issues.

 

[Semiretired]

I think that a lot of the problem is education. Education of batteries, charging, proper use, configuration, care etc of vaping equipment, nicotine and other related material. There is a lot of information in ECF - if you take the time to read the stickies.

I have read all the stickies in every forum that I frequent (DIY, Modding, Legislature, etc.), but I doubt this is the case of most member in ECF. It is also doubtful that a lot of the modders fully understand all the technical aspects of the mods they build. We have single mods, double stacked mods, tube and wood mods (we even have modded inhalers) made by a lot of "crafty" (people that are good at crafts so not to be misinterpreted), but are these people battery, electrical, etc. engineers - doubtful.

Prior to this incident my research through this forum had informed me what I want to buy as an upgrade for my Joye 650mah Ego, but what I want is not made. There are a lot that are close, but each is missing something. I have narrowed it down to a couple, but in both cases I will have to mod the mod to add the missing feature that I want in each (why - all the info I used to make my final assumptions are in this forum)... This incident has delayed me in hitting the buy button. I want to know the answer to the question in this thread first.

Solution to this eduction problem - 1st, before access to any area of ECF that has safety precautions - all stickies must be read (controls can be made to ensure that is done)... 2nd, before any vendor is registered with ECF they must also certify that they are aware of all precautions that need to be taken for their equipment and that they will ensure that they buyers are also aware. This can be done by the buyers signing off that they have read the precautions and or literature will be provided with the mod when delivered.

Is this an extreme - yes. Will consumers complain - yes. Vendors will also complain or go out of business.

I will buy stock in AW and PILA and a few other things (LOL)...

 

[BuzzKill]

As someone who works in a very oddly regulated industry (construction, namely residential remodeling) I see a lot of correlations between the potential lack of safety in e-cig products and shoddy construction work.

The majority of the posters on these boards are hyper focused on price. I think it's great to save money vaping, but to me the health benefit is the primary reason to replace analogues and if I save money that's just a bonus.

You're never going to achieve product safety in an unregulated industry where the consumer is hyper-focused on price. Especially when new users come here and post questions and immediately start getting regaled about how this is cheaper than that, with very much less mention of brand reliability track records and safety issues.

Excellent post and ON POINT !

 

[BuzzKill]

There are a few things that are needed to make a battery Explode
1. Excess current draw or excess LOAD ( I.E. Low resistance ) a dead short can cause this situation , a dead short means very low resistance ( like under .5 ohms or lower ) this makes the battery go into overdrive and try to supply that current the SHORT wants , with a protected battery the protection circuit SHOULD kick in to prevent this , IF there is no protection in the battery itself then the MOD needs to have protection built into IT. A mod that does not have protection built in should NEVER have an UN protected battery in it !

2. A closed area , vent holes are on MOST mods to allow the gasses to go somewhere ! a Li-ion battery when it is in a failure mode will OUTGAS and release hot gasses these gasses need to be relieved from the tube or Box or ? one way to do this is to provide vent holes, as Roly has suggested 3 holes near the bottom of the tube on the outside surface is the best setup to use , it allows the gasses to work AGAINST each other so it does not Take OFF but stays put where it is .

3. Common sense , or lack thereof , If a battery is HOT or leaking or has a torn covering DO NOT USE IT ! it is dangerous.

I hope this helps to understand the conditions that are present in MOST problems like this , we do not and may never know what happened in this case BUT following these guidelines will reduce the risk .

 

[ChaosTheory]

http://www.cspnet.com/news/tobacco/articles/update-was-exploding-e-cigarette-mod

Just posted 14 minutes ago

 

[muzichead]

"What happened is a tragedy, and we hope this is a wakeup call to the industry to institute higher standards," Dan Recio, co-founder of e-cigarette manufacturer V2 Cigs, said in a statement. "We took action against the possibility of electronic issues from the very beginning, with safeguards integrated into our batteries like automatic shutoff and smart chargers that prevent overcharging. We properly age all batteries before shipment and retest mAh to ensure the highest standards."

So e-cig mfg's acually age their batteries before shipment? How long do they actually age them for? Not sure what he means by higher standards as that was the e-cig I first started with and wound up in the garbage after 30 days due to his "High Standards and Excellent Customer Service".....WAFJ.......

 

[Rocketman]

A reader said it was something Tom made from parts.
A reader.

Respond to something and they quote it in the followup.

 

[stephpd]

Still no real facts and just further speculation.

 

[muzichead]

This was stated by the Fire Chief:

Chief Butch Parker of the North Bay Fire District responded to the call. "I have never heard of or seen anything like this before," Parker told ABC News. Although the battery was unrecognizable after the incident, Parker reported finding several 3.0 volt CR123A type batteries charging in the room along with a scorched battery case that appeared to be one for a cigar-sized device.

 

[BuzzKill]

"What happened is a tragedy, and we hope this is a wakeup call to the industry to institute higher standards," Dan Recio, co-founder of e-cigarette manufacturer V2 Cigs, said in a statement. "We took action against the possibility of electronic issues from the very beginning, with safeguards integrated into our batteries like automatic shutoff and smart chargers that prevent overcharging. We properly age all batteries before shipment and retest mAh to ensure the highest standards."

So e-cig mfg's acually age their batteries before shipment? How long do they actually age them for? Not sure what he means by higher standards as that was the e-cig I first started with and wound up in the garbage after 30 days due to his "High Standards and Excellent Customer Service".....WAFJ.......

As far as I know Li-ion batts only AGE to failure not to improve battery life !! old NMH batts do have a memory effect but that is not present in Li-ION batts

 

[Slim Batz]

Here is a post in a led flashlight forum about a man being injured by exploding 18650 batteries in a stacked configuration... I post it because it has a nice set of photos of just how destructive these batteries can be when they go off.

Ultrafire 18650 3000mA exploded

 

[Calypso53]

So e-cig mfg's acually age their batteries before shipment? How long do they actually age them for? Not sure what he means by higher standards as that was the e-cig I first started with and wound up in the garbage after 30 days due to his "High Standards and Excellent Customer Service".....WAFJ.......

I started with and still use V2, and find their customer service to be exceptionally good. You can get immediate answers to questions, which is important to newbies, with their online chat feature, and maybe I'm an exception to most people on this forum but I find their products to be very good. I just re-ordered some things today. And honestly, I haven't seen any of the other e-cig manufacturers say ANYTHING about this, so kudos to V2 for addressing it.

 

[deach]

I started with and still use V2, and find their customer service to be exceptionally good. You can get immediate answers to questions, which is important to newbies, with their online chat feature, and maybe I'm an exception to most people on this forum but I find their products to be very good. I just re-ordered some things today. And honestly, I haven't seen any of the other e-cig manufacturers say ANYTHING about this, so kudos to V2 for addressing it.

You're not the only exception....a minority maybe, solo exception...no.

 

[dcannon1]

Here is a post in a led flashlight forum about a man being injured by exploding 18650 batteries in a stacked configuration... I post it because it has a nice set of photos of just how destructive these batteries can be when they go off.

Ultrafire 18650 3000mA exploded

The comments on that thread address many of the same concerns being voiced in this thread. High powered flashlights have been around a good bit longer than PVs and in a lot of ways are a similar design (low resistance component on one end of a metal battery tube). A lot to be learned from the established flashlight community regarding battery safety.

 

[Semiretired]

The flashlight community stacks more batteries than any PV will ever hold (at least I hope no one ever stacks that many)... They also put more stress on them than our PV's do - few second bursts compared to how long a flashlight is turned on for at one time...

 

[Rocketman]

If that link is the one I think it is, it was a triple stack flashlight.
And for those that aren't familiar with high powered flashlights, it's not one of your drug store specials.