Long time user finally concerned about side effects.

[dedi]

I am thinking its a combination of flavorings and vape style, I believe I have become sensitive to certain flavorings and Im pushing them too hard.

I could have written your first paragraph 10+ yrs of vaping. You probably have answered yourself with the above statement. I have no concept of the purpose of DL style of vaping. I started vaping to quit smoking and MTL did the trick for me. I probably am the exception that I use about 3 ml per day but it is around 20 mg. Strictly diy unflavored for the last 7 or 8 yrs. The reason I went to unflavored was mouth and lung irritation. I have no plans to quit in the future though I am trying not to inhale as frequently. Good luck on finding your way!

 

[Skwij]

Alot of this hits home. I think i am going to first start with a more simple setup and then experiement with flavorings and juices. I sold most of my old gear though.

Are there any attractive/grown up looking tube mods out there these days? Something i coukd sit a MTL tank on flush?

EhPro 101
EhPro + ( i think it's called, the updated version of the EhPro tube)
Tesla Punk 86W

As for flush, that would depend on the tank. MTL isn't a size anymore, but all the ones I listed would do a 22MM tank with no overhang and the Tesla will do a 24MM tank no prob.

 

[Jebbn]

Yep. If I exercise its gone but it returns later that evening. My symptoms seem similar to your but maybe a little more severe, I have been vaping alot longer. I wonder what this whole DL craze will bring to people after prolonged use. Only time will tell but I feel its not doing me any good. Problem is it was difficult for me to go back to MTL after felling the "rush" of lung hits. I ended up right back here.

Vaping hasnt been easy for me. The gear is no problem but finding juice and technique that doesnt cause me problems has been a source of trial, error and frustration.
I cant do pg even as low as 2% with out negative affects. Vape flavours apart from all tasting quite yuck to me have a similar effect on me as PG even in tiny doses.
Some vg's dont taste good and are unpleasant to vape.
If I use too high nic mg then I have problems with discomfort in my mouth/gums etc.

I remain surprised that I could continue smoking ryo tobacco for 42yrs with little if any discomfort apart from the gradual destruction of my liver, gums, lungs and quality of life.
But here I am 1 day off 2yrs vaping and still tweaking my juice, technique, and gear to suit.
VG/distilled water and 6to7mg nic in a vg base vaped at low watts and cool temps mtl seems to be about where I can be happy and without negative affect.
Im okay with all that, Im only in this for the nicotine and make no apology for that.

 

[Ryedan]

Yep. If I exercise its gone but it returns later that evening. My symptoms seem similar to your but maybe a little more severe, I have been vaping alot longer. I wonder what this whole DL craze will bring to people after prolonged use. Only time will tell but I feel its not doing me any good. Problem is it was difficult for me to go back to MTL after felling the "rush" of lung hits. I ended up right back here.

I switched to vaping in 2012 after smoking for 37 years. I knew I had to quit smoking or it would not go well for me.

I started MTL with an eGo-C kit at 7-8 watts and about a year later I was DL with RDAs and Genisis atties at up to 40'ish watts. I now vape restricted DL tanks at 13-14 watts. My early juices were ~50/50 VG/PG and 18 mg nic, which changed to high VG over time and I've now been at 100% PG and ~1.3 mg nic for a couple of years. I've been lucky in that I've never experienced an allergic reaction to anything, but I've always found that higher daily nic intake gives me a raspy throat/voice. It's not an issue at the nic level I use now unless I really vape a lot for a while

I've found I can DL almost any atty, it just means I need a longer drag if the airflow is more restricted. With an open airflow, it's the opposite in that I can inhale slowly if I want to. The power setting obviously needs to be appropriate to the amount of air you are moving through the atty.

There are a lot of variables to consider. Eliminate flavors for a bit and see what happens, change atties, change your watts, different flavorings, change juice nic levels, different VG/PG combinations (or try 100% of one or the other) or DL vs MTL. The mod is pretty much irrelevant, they all just deliver power to your coil(s).

IMO, if what you're vaping now is not good for you, either put some serious thought into how you could change that, or quit vaping. If you can quit without going back to smoking, that's the best way to go. Best of luck with it

 

[pdib]

Or, another perspective . . .

At the end of this post, I'm going to say, "you should try switching to unflavored nic salts @ a much higher percentage of nicotine and don't inhale. rather, mouth draw and then gently out the nose." This will satisfy you completely (including "throat hit" equivalent), eliminate involvement of lungs, drastically reduce any irritation of the throat, and eliminate flavorings as a factor.

I started out and stayed at ~35mg MTL.
Years later I switched to DL, and enjoyed 15mg Lung hits at ~80-90 Watts as my ADV.
Then, one day, for no real good reason, I experimented with nic salts (@~45mg) and MTL (about 6? years into vaping). I quickly and comfortably transitioned fully to that.
Then I went to "mouth to nose" (no lung . . .. the out the nose thing is very satisfying), and then eliminated all flavors from my deal.
When I was comfortable (mindless ADV, "normal") with unflavored, mouth-to-nose vaping, I dropped down to 25mg salts (only partly salted).
And when I got back down to 20mg, I switched back to freebase.

Soon I'll be vaping mouth-to-nose @ 15mg, unflavored, freebase. And that's what I was vaping DL @80W and flavored, just a year or so ago (or less?).

Here's the point, tho: when I was doing the salts at about 35mg (first step down), I mixed up some unflavored freebase @35mg, and it was harsh to me! Very harsh on my mouth and throat. Simply could not vape it type harsh (and that's what I was vaping for years when I first started).
So, the salts will alleviate much of the "wire-brush" effect on your breathing passages (mouth, throat, etc).
Higher levels of nic (as salts) will allow you to feel satisfied as you switch to MTL and then to MTNose.
Then your lungs won't be involved at all, you'll be getting your nic, and you can drop back down in percentage (and then to freebase) as/after you become fully accustomed to your new vape style.

(I understand that nic salts may or may not be evil; but, as a short-term transitional aid, how much harm can it do?)

(also, I may come across as smug/certain/knowitall in this post; but, it's just an accidental consequence of trying to limit myself to as few words as possible. please to add generously: "IMHO" and "in my personal experience", and "who am I to tell you what to do")

So, "you should try switching to unflavored nic salts @ a much higher percentage of nicotine and don't inhale."


ADDIT: forgot to mention, this MTNose vape is at about 15W.

 

[ScottP]

1. Quit. Honestly I would love to. Save money, no more remembering to bring gear etc. My wife would love it as she states she cant quit until I do, the temptation is too much for her. I'm not sure if I'm ready for that but I am seriously considering the option.

First, as many others have said, you should see a Dr. about the pain issues.

If you are down to 3mg/ml I think you would be surprised if you tried 0 nic juice. I suspect you may be more addicted to the action of vaping than the nic at this point. If you can do 0 nic for a bit, then you can try "vaping" with no juice at all (turn the mod off completely and just inhale air through it), until you can break that habit.

 

[Zaryk]

I would say quitting is going to be most beneficial, especially since you have someone to stop with and you both can support each other through the process.

If that doesn't work for you then I would suggest taking steps towards changing your style of vaping to eliminate the symptoms. Start with your juices and work towards the more costly options like buying different types of equipment.

 

[DeloresRose]

(I understand that nic salts may or may not be evil; but, as a short-term transitional aid, how much harm can it do?)

This is my take on salts, too. I use them sparingly at higher levels than I can tolerate freebase when I feel most at-risk of relapse.

I acknowledge there is little information about them, and accept whatever risk they may present because the risks of smoking are entirely unacceptable to me.

I’ve been vaping 6 years and have fallen off the wagon a couple times, I hate to admit. I’m going to be one of those people who must remain vigilant, and it hasn’t helped that I’ve had a few really rough years of family tragedy. Perhaps if life stops being so stressful it won’t be such a challenge, but I’m not letting my guard down any time soon.

 

[BigPappa]

only happens maybe once a month?

If it is so rare that it only happens once a month and not all of the other times you vape: it could just be totally coincidental that you're vaping at the time, the same thing could possibly happen from taking a deep breath for all that we know. I go back to my original recommendation: I would see a pulmonary specialist if I were you, they can run tests that your regular doctor would not.

 

[BigPappa]

@Baditude has been a top 5 contributor for the past 7 years. Every post..SOLID

Well.. not every post. one of his cost me a couple hundred dollars. Long story.

 

[Baditude]

Well.. not every post. one of his cost me a couple hundred dollars. Long story.

Sorry about that, but do you believe everything that you read on the internet?

If it helps, I bought over $100 of my two favorite commercially made e-liquids on that same day, so I swallowed my own medicine, too. Luckily it was 40% off regular price. I didn't need it now, but I'm covered for the next 2 - 3 years. After that, I can DIY my own juice.

Whatever you bought on my suggestion, I'm pretty sure that you will eventually use it and it wasn't a wasted purchase.

 

[BigPappa]

Sorry about that, but do you believe everything that you read on the internet?

If it helps, I bought over $100 of my two favorite commercially made e-liquids on that day, so I swallowed my own medicine, too. Luckily it was 40% off regular price.

Whatever you bought on my suggestion, I'm pretty sure that you will eventually use it and it wasn't a wasted purchase.

It was a waste, what I had was already overkill. I had basically duplicated 2 big orders that I had on the slowboat as I was worried about them being seized... But I could probably trade the stuff for something else I want in the future. maybe something fancy and shiny.

 

[Baditude]

It was a waste, what I had was already overkill. I had basically duplicated 2 big orders that I had on the slowboat as I was worried about them being seized...

If what you had was already overkill, then ordering more was ALL on you.

 

[BigPappa]

If what you had was already overkill, then ordering more was ALL on you.

What was already on the slowboat would have made it overkill (enough for my wife and my lifetime plus a little more for good measure).... but doubling the slowboat orders was my biggest mistake in my stockpiling efforts.

Half of the double order were nautilus coils, those will be easy to trade as they are used in a ton of tanks.

 

[Bunnykiller]

ever consider doing the "Lick-A-Nic" method???

when I cant vape ( public location, hospital etc) I place a small ( tiny) drop of juice on the thumb nail and lick it up, swish it around my mouth to "coat" the interior and let it go to work via "transdermal effect", I avoid swallowing if possible ( this helps in avoiding the "Nicups"). You get a nic blast, the taste you like and no batteries needed
On average, that drop will last a good 30-45 minutes before I get the urge for nic again... ( I use 36nic in my juice, so a TINY drop is all I need) lower level juices may require a tad bit more juice or applications a bit more often. If I was addicted to just the nic, I could very easily swap over to this method completely and not worry about inhaling anything, but unfortunately Im also "VERY" fond of the visual/physical aspect of vaping ( the lungs full of vapor feeling and the exhale of the puffy whiteness)

Its an easy test to preform, just be sure to start with a smear or tiny dot of juice... keep a lookout for that "tightness" in the throat when swallowing that occurs when nic levels are high enuf to be close to a nic OD, if you get the warm face and queezy sweats, youve over done it ... Ive also used this on a "long term" session ( 6 days in the hospital) and it kept me satisfied enuf the entire time during my visit. Give it a try, either it will work for you or it might be a dissapointment... All I know is it works for me, just maybe it will for you too

 

[vaper1960]

Its an easy test to preform, just be sure to start with a smear or tiny dot of juice... keep a lookout for that "tightness" in the throat when swallowing that occurs when nic levels are high enuf to be close to a nic OD, if you get the warm face and queezy sweats, youve over done it ... Ive also used this on a "long term" session ( 6 days in the hospital) and it kept me satisfied enuf the entire time during my visit. Give it a try, either it will work for you or it might be a dissapointment... All I know is it works for me, just maybe it will for you too

Good tip (I'm going in for surgery soon) Don't worry, I'm aware of the nic issues. I do DIY and could actually use food flavors that would not be safe to vape

 

[Ryedan]

Or, another perspective . . .

At the end of this post, I'm going to say, "you should try switching to unflavored nic salts @ a much higher percentage of nicotine and don't inhale. rather, mouth draw and then gently out the nose." This will satisfy you completely (including "throat hit" equivalent), eliminate involvement of lungs, drastically reduce any irritation of the throat, and eliminate flavorings as a factor.

I started out and stayed at ~35mg MTL.
Years later I switched to DL, and enjoyed 15mg Lung hits at ~80-90 Watts as my ADV.
Then, one day, for no real good reason, I experimented with nic salts (@~45mg) and MTL (about 6? years into vaping). I quickly and comfortably transitioned fully to that.
Then I went to "mouth to nose" (no lung . . .. the out the nose thing is very satisfying), and then eliminated all flavors from my deal.
When I was comfortable (mindless ADV, "normal") with unflavored, mouth-to-nose vaping, I dropped down to 25mg salts (only partly salted).
And when I got back down to 20mg, I switched back to freebase.

Soon I'll be vaping mouth-to-nose @ 15mg, unflavored, freebase. And that's what I was vaping DL @80W and flavored, just a year or so ago (or less?).

Here's the point, tho: when I was doing the salts at about 35mg (first step down), I mixed up some unflavored freebase @35mg, and it was harsh to me! Very harsh on my mouth and throat. Simply could not vape it type harsh (and that's what I was vaping for years when I first started).
So, the salts will alleviate much of the "wire-brush" effect on your breathing passages (mouth, throat, etc).
Higher levels of nic (as salts) will allow you to feel satisfied as you switch to MTL and then to MTNose.
Then your lungs won't be involved at all, you'll be getting your nic, and you can drop back down in percentage (and then to freebase) as/after you become fully accustomed to your new vape style.

(I understand that nic salts may or may not be evil; but, as a short-term transitional aid, how much harm can it do?)

(also, I may come across as smug/certain/knowitall in this post; but, it's just an accidental consequence of trying to limit myself to as few words as possible. please to add generously: "IMHO" and "in my personal experience", and "who am I to tell you what to do")

So, "you should try switching to unflavored nic salts @ a much higher percentage of nicotine and don't inhale."


ADDIT: forgot to mention, this MTNose vape is at about 15W.

ever consider doing the "Lick-A-Nic" method???

when I cant vape ( public location, hospital etc) I place a small ( tiny) drop of juice on the thumb nail and lick it up, swish it around my mouth to "coat" the interior and let it go to work via "transdermal effect", I avoid swallowing if possible ( this helps in avoiding the "Nicups"). You get a nic blast, the taste you like and no batteries needed
On average, that drop will last a good 30-45 minutes before I get the urge for nic again... ( I use 36nic in my juice, so a TINY drop is all I need) lower level juices may require a tad bit more juice or applications a bit more often. If I was addicted to just the nic, I could very easily swap over to this method completely and not worry about inhaling anything, but unfortunately Im also "VERY" fond of the visual/physical aspect of vaping ( the lungs full of vapor feeling and the exhale of the puffy whiteness)

Its an easy test to preform, just be sure to start with a smear or tiny dot of juice... keep a lookout for that "tightness" in the throat when swallowing that occurs when nic levels are high enuf to be close to a nic OD, if you get the warm face and queezy sweats, youve over done it ... Ive also used this on a "long term" session ( 6 days in the hospital) and it kept me satisfied enuf the entire time during my visit. Give it a try, either it will work for you or it might be a dissapointment... All I know is it works for me, just maybe it will for you too

Just wanted to say, great posts @pdib and @Bunnykiller

There are a lot of ways to work this stuff and in the end it's up to each of us to figure out what works best for us. The great thing now is we have a lot of hardware that works really well compared to back in the earlier days of vaping and we have way more information about how to do it safely. That makes it easier to find our sweet spots, but there are still going to be issues we have to think through accurately to be successful. That's not always easy, but once we get it right it just works

 

[latexyankee]

I could have written your first paragraph 10+ yrs of vaping. You probably have answered yourself with the above statement. I have no concept of the purpose of DL style of vaping. I started vaping to quit smoking and MTL did the trick for me. I probably am the exception that I use about 3 ml per day but it is around 20 mg. Strictly diy unflavored for the last 7 or 8 yrs. The reason I went to unflavored was mouth and lung irritation. I have no plans to quit in the future though I am trying not to inhale as frequently. Good luck on finding your way!

If I do go DIY it doesn't get any easier than unflavored...

 

[latexyankee]

First, as many others have said, you should see a Dr. about the pain issues.

If you are down to 3mg/ml I think you would be surprised if you tried 0 nic juice. I suspect you may be more addicted to the action of vaping than the nic at this point. If you can do 0 nic for a bit, then you can try "vaping" with no juice at all (turn the mod off completely and just inhale air through it), until you can break that habit.

Ive done 0 nic for a few different stints in the past. Made it about a week each time.

 

[Myrany]

@latexyankee this is WAY off topic but

Every time I see your profile pic I have the urge to boot up fallout 4 LOL