My coffee extraction is very weak, troubleshooting please?

[FinallyQuit]

1st extraction a while back yielded a LOT of very strong scented/flavored coffee. I used the same method this time, but something didn't work!!

15 ml ground coffee (Dunkin Donuts Pumpkin Spice coffee)
30 ml VG
microwave 10 seconds
fill with VG back to the 30 ml mark
Hot water steep 30 minutes
Strain in coffee filter until nothing else will come out

Yield was 15 ml orange colored extract, smelled great, vaped great at 100%.

Tried it in a mix, it's weak as dishwater.

1st extraction was done with 80vg/20distilled water. Do you think the water made that much of a difference?

I'm looking to do this again over the weekend, would really appreciate some pointers.

Would a longer-steep cold-extraction make a more flavorful extract?

 

[FACE MEAT]

I definitely think the water has something to do with it. A less viscous liquid will more thoroughly extract flavor components. Alcohol extracts better than water. Water extracts better than PG. PG extracts better than VG.

More heat or time may be necessary to match your first results.

 

[FinallyQuit]

Thanks for confirming that for me, Face Meat. I have it on the agenda today!

 

[Widowmaker_]

My coffee extract is one of my favorites. I think you need a longer extraction time. I extract my coffee in PG, heating it in the microwave until it's the temp of a hot cup of coffee. I heat it up a couple/few times a day for 3-4 days stirring it once a day, then filter it. I mix it at ~15% extract 1% EM and it tastes like a cup of black coffee. I also add it to some of my tobacco juices at ~2-3%. I use a fairly common dark roast, Chock Full O Nuts New York Roast.

 

[FinallyQuit]

Talk about strong! I have to try it. Hope it doesn't turn out bitter. . .

 

[Widowmaker_]

Nah, it didn't get any more bitter than it the original beans. Being a dark roast it's a little bitter to begin with. I see that you're using a flavored coffee, I'd be careful about extracting flavored coffee. The flavorings may be safe to eat but not to vape.

 

[CookingWithGuns]

Do many of you really do natural coffee extraction? Talk about dangerous.

 

[FACE MEAT]

What is "natural coffee extraction" and why is it dangerous?

 

[FinallyQuit]

I worried about the flavored coffee for a minute or two, but many of us ECFers have extracted Kahlua flavored coffee, plus others, and lived to tell about it.

Face Meat, +1, what is "natural coffee" and what makes it more dangerous to extract it ourselves versus buying TFA coffee flavoring?

 

[CookingWithGuns]

Extracting flavor from whole beans (or grounds) and using that. The dangerous part is it would contain caffeine which is dangerous to vape. I'm sure there is a way to extract the oils, then the flavor from the oils, but this doesn't sound like that.

 

[FACE MEAT]

I did a quick search on the hazards of caffeine inhalation. Nothing too scary.

Keep in mind, one cup of brewed coffee contains about 135mg of caffeine. One batch of coffee extract contains about the same amount of ground coffe as would be used to brew one cup. The resulting extraction makes about 15-30mL of extract. Depending upon the percentage of extract used, that 15-30mL of extract will flavor 60-270mL of finished e-liquid.

Unless you're going through 60-270mL of e-liquid every 10 minutes, I see no problem.

 

[CookingWithGuns]

I did a quick search on the hazards of caffeine inhalation. Nothing too scary.

Keep in mind, one cup of brewed coffee contains about 135mg of caffeine. One batch of coffee extract contains about the same amount of ground coffe as would be used to brew one cup. The resulting extraction makes about 15-30mL of extract. Depending upon the percentage of extract used, that 15-30mL of extract will flavor 60-270mL of finished e-liquid.

Unless you're going through 60-270mL of e-liquid every 10 minutes, I see no problem.

Actually depending on the extracting method, you are likely to get more caffeine than brewing a cup. Now I'm sure that most extracts that are sold probably use a secondary process to get rid of a lot of the caffeine, but I'm talking about doing it in your own house. While it isn't considered that dangerous to inhale caffeine, the amount you could be inhaling plus the nicotine, it could really mess with some people.

 

[FACE MEAT]

Even if double the caffeine is being extracted (not likely), it's being diluted to 10-20% and vaped over the course of of days or weeks or months.

PG and/or VG is much more viscous than water. The temperature of said PG/VG doesn't reach near-boil like the water used to brew a cup of coffee. The volume of PG/VG used to extract the amount of coffee that would be used to make a cup of coffee is far smaller.

Call me crazy, but the risk seems somewhere between non-existant and miniscule.

 

[Widowmaker_]

Actually depending on the extracting method, you are likely to get more caffeine than brewing a cup. Now I'm sure that most extracts that are sold probably use a secondary process to get rid of a lot of the caffeine, but I'm talking about doing it in your own house. While it isn't considered that dangerous to inhale caffeine, the amount you could be inhaling plus the nicotine, it could really mess with some people.

I agree with FaceMeat, the amount of caffeine in this extract is minimal... 2 scoops (~2 tablespoons of grinds which brews two 6 oz. cups of coffee) nets me ~20ml of extract. Mixed at 15% would give you ~130 ml of juice. At vaping 3 ml a day it would last ~43 days so you would be ingesting the caffeine equivalent of 12 oz of coffee in ~43 days or ~0.28 oz/day. Even if you were extracting 100% of the caffeine from those 2 scoops (highly unlikely) I still think the caffeine content in the extract would still be minimal. I am open to see some facts on how much caffeine is in 1 tablespoon of Dark Roast coffee, I'm curious but not too worried about it.

As for ingesting nicotine and caffeine at the same time being dangerous. For the average person I don't think it is. A lot of people vape and drink strong coffee at the same time everyday, including me. Just one cup of coffee that I drink (4 scoops of beans) most likely has more caffeine than the whole 20 ml of extract, again I'm not worried about what little caffeine is in the extract.

On the other hand, If someone is sensitive to caffeine then I would recommend them NOT to make their own coffee extract being that there is most definitely some caffeine in it.

 

[FinallyQuit]

I have had great success extracting decaf. That was all they had available in the caramel truffle flavor I wanted so badly. For those who fear the effects of vaping caffeine, I would recommend they try decaf.

 

[Widowmaker_]

The most common and cheapest way for coffee companies to remove caffeine is the use of chemicals. If I were to use decaf I would use beans that use the steam process to remove the caffeine.

 

[FinallyQuit]

Now this is an extract! The addition of 20% distilled water, larger amount of vg to larger amount of coffee grounds, and longer heating/steeping time has yielded some rich dark brown fantastic scented extract. Can't wait until it stops straining so I can try it!

 

[FACE MEAT]

Keep us posted!

 

[Cavediver]

I'm glad you're haveing good results with this. My first few extractions with flavored coffee turned out some horrible results. Fortunately the plain coffee I extracted came out very well. My experiments are on the back burner for now; I need to work on a couple more basic DIYs for the two of us before I concentrate on a "me only" project.

 

[metamorpheus]

So after reading this I'm considering doing my own extract. I buy my coffee off sweet marias and roast it myself to a roast between light and dark. Usually a nice brown color that has a very pungent aroma when grinded up and has very little bitter element to it when brewed. I'll try some of my Guatamala beans as those were the tastiest ones of my last order. Think I'll just foil wrap it in a glass container and leave it to the AZ summer heat to do the rest.