Well it's just my own little opinion, and therefore by no means a provable fact, but I think our biggest problem isn't heavy vapers or cloud chasers, it's the militant anti-smoking nazis who have turned their attacks on vapers and see us doing the same thing as smoking out of their ignorance and compulsive need to control-freak on those around them. I think these people are constantly looking for anything those around them are doing that they can be attacked for, and because they lead such empty and sad lives have to go after anyone they can just to feel alive.
my opinion: heavy users are downfall for the rest
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This attitude is just as dangerous to vapers as is blowing out gallons of fog in public places. Whether we are talking about smoke or vapor, there is no difference in how annoying both of them are to non-smokers/non-vapors.
And don't give me the "second hand smoke is worse" excuse. If you justify your public lack of respect and utmost jackassery by saying "It's not smoke, it's vapor" while being escorted out of a restaurant, you are the biggest problem in the vaping community.
To anyone but smokers and vapors, vapors are smokers. We should not aim to change that because it has no impact on the reasons why we vape.
We do it for ourselves, not so others think of us any differently and suddenly allow us to vape in their home, stores, restaurants or other premises.
Being in any non-smoking area means two things :
- There is no harmful second hand smoke floating around.
- You will not have to walk through a cloud of airborne .... or sit on a chair and have one blown towards you.
Clouds are ....ing annoying whether they come from an analog cigarette or a provari. If you don't understand that, you are either 17 years old and totally stoked on v@pinglolbro or socially impared to an alarming degree.
If you vape in a public non-smoking area because it's totally not smoking it's vapor man, you are a jackass, no matter how discreet you are.
EDIT : This reminds me of 1998 all over again. It's not stealing man, it's sharing. Remember this? Those were the times.
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Cloud chasers don't inhale? They inhale. I'm not denying that some of them cross the line...I'm saying they're not the only ones who cross the line....and they probably cross it a fewer times than regular ol vapers. The idiot in line at the grocery store? Not a cloud chaser. I'm all about common sense and common courtesy when it comes to vaping. Somehow, I can sense when it's appropriate to vape at will and when to stealth vape. I think most people have this ability...not everybody listens to their insinct. My only gripe is so many people like to single out a certain group of us vapers....sub ohmers or cloud chasers. That's BS to pin all the blame on them. We both pointed out idiots among our ranks. My idiot was a conventional vaper with an ego vaping in public, in a line at the grocery store. Your idiot was a cloud chaser with a crappy battery in a VAPE STORE. Who's the bigger idiot in the PUBLIC EYE?
It's not so much about cloud chasers. It's more about the "I do what I want where I want and don't give an eff what you say"-people. They generally tend not to care what you say.
Don't be different don't bring attention to your self hide in the back of the room and maybe if we make lots of money off you we will let you do it out side .
Then there are the people who are just out looking for something, anything to be offended by, which sadly has become far more common over the last decade. I am reminded of the day I was parked at work vaping in my car and a woman pulled in next to me, saw me vaping, and decided to open her car door and sit in there doing the fake coughing bit as she scowled at me.
Another time a woman in a bar where vaping was allowed and the bartenders were vaping behind the bar did this same thing, 30 ft. away from me, glaring at me as she did the fake coughing and sneezing bit.
In the same bar, another time, a man way down at the other end of the bar was angrily telling those with him, "It's just a GD nicotine delivery device!" as he scowled at me from 40 ft. away, then he complained to the manager and I was told to take it outside, as the bartenders vaped on....
At a flea market where vaping was allowed and there are 5 vape booths a guy was watching me from the next booth as I talked to the guy running a vape booth, and when I went to take a vape he quickly strode up right in my face and yelled, "Don't you blow that s*** in my face!" Then he walked off fast.
I've had other such experiences, and what I take away from them is that there are a lot of people out there just dying for something to get all over someone about, and they will invent it or fake it if they have to. Vapers make wonderful targets for these people. With fewer smokers around anymore they have to go after someone, and since it *looks* like smoking to them and they are willfully ignorant about it we are their natural next targets.
Another time a woman in a bar where vaping was allowed and the bartenders were vaping behind the bar did this same thing, 30 ft. away from me, glaring at me as she did the fake coughing and sneezing bit.
In the same bar, another time, a man way down at the other end of the bar was angrily telling those with him, "It's just a GD nicotine delivery device!" as he scowled at me from 40 ft. away, then he complained to the manager and I was told to take it outside, as the bartenders vaped on....
At a flea market where vaping was allowed and there are 5 vape booths a guy was watching me from the next booth as I talked to the guy running a vape booth, and when I went to take a vape he quickly strode up right in my face and yelled, "Don't you blow that s*** in my face!" Then he walked off fast.
I've had other such experiences, and what I take away from them is that there are a lot of people out there just dying for something to get all over someone about, and they will invent it or fake it if they have to. Vapers make wonderful targets for these people. With fewer smokers around anymore they have to go after someone, and since it *looks* like smoking to them and they are willfully ignorant about it we are their natural next targets.
Were you vaping big clouds or just being normal? Were you doing anything else that could be construed as obnoxious? This just does not sound "right." Maybe you need to change up your drinking establishment?
Seriously, I have NEVER been told "don't blow that in my face," because I DON'T even give the APPEARANCE of blowing stuff into people's face. I don't want anyone to blow stuff in my face, either.
Cloud chasers should (IMHO) practice cool clouds outside or places where no one could be offended, like the privacy of their own homes/parties. I got no use for cloud chasing, but I do NOT think they are the reason why the government wants to ban vaping.
Follow the money.
Smoking makes clouds, clouds have a smell and a taste that is annoying to most people.
Vaping makes clouds, clouds have a smell and a taste that is annoying to most people.
Vaping indoors in the presence of non-smokers/non-vapers is just as annoying as smoking indoors. It has nothing to do with the toxicity of the product. It's just really annoying to smell what you're vaping from 20 feet away. The fact that it looks like you are smoking is only the catalyst, not the essence of the issue.
Some people express it more aggressively than others but only vapors are bringing it upon themselves and crying about it.
Vaping indoors in the presence of non-vapers/non-smokers is the same as smoking indoors in the
presence of non-vapers/non-smokers.
Vaping does not suddenly grant you brand new rights to annoy everyone.
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Personally, I believe that PG/VG fog, while not being particularly harmful, can be irritating and possibly detrimental in huge clouds over time. I know that I can sense some level of irritation if I crank up and blow clouds. I prefer to vape somewhere in the range that produces vapor similar to the ultra light cigarettes I smoked. With me, it's about replacing and reducing the nicotine I needed when I smoked.
But then, I come from the early days where a 510 slim was good enough to get me off cigarettes and an eGo was a cloud producer. The vapor didn't hang in the air like cigarette smoke. These days atomization is much more efficient and the cloud will hang in the air like a hot boxed Red Marlboro. Those smaller mist droplets are reaching deeper into the lungs, unlike the larger droplets of the early ecigs.
My advice to a new vapor would be to get the nic by holding the vapor in your mouth and then exhaling through the nose. Inhale shallowly, not deeply.
But then, I come from the early days where a 510 slim was good enough to get me off cigarettes and an eGo was a cloud producer. The vapor didn't hang in the air like cigarette smoke. These days atomization is much more efficient and the cloud will hang in the air like a hot boxed Red Marlboro. Those smaller mist droplets are reaching deeper into the lungs, unlike the larger droplets of the early ecigs.
My advice to a new vapor would be to get the nic by holding the vapor in your mouth and then exhaling through the nose. Inhale shallowly, not deeply.
Since when is vaping or smoking, or for that matter anything I choose to do that is legal and doesn't hurt anyone else a privilege? According to whom? I agree that a bit of self regulation is prudent, as it is with most things, but to suggest that I or anyone else should cower in fear or stop doing something that is perfectly legal because it might give some do-gooders ammunition is just a foolish thought.
I have said it before and it needs to be repeated. We are losing the PR war here because we as vapers refuse to get out in front of the issue. We are allowing vaping to be defined in less than good terms by those who oppose it. I have written letters to my representatives even when there is no legislation pending. I have written letters to the editor of my newspaper. I am a good ambassador for vaping and I proudly walk around with my SVD and Kayfun. I get many questions and compliments, all of which I happily answer. You might just be surprised how good an image vaping actually has among most people you meet.
To be a bit more specific to the OP, his (or her?) concerns are legitimate. As you pointed out, how to address the issue is where I differ. Altering my behavior and enjoyment to accommodate the few *censored*holes among us is not, in my humble opinion, the way to go. YMMV
Big tobacco and money lined, pocket politicians is where I think the first volley of shots against vaping will come from, if it hasn't already. I heard something on the news that the tobacco industry has already had a decrease in revenue and has already started laying off workers.
Smoking is banned in public places because of second hand smoke and not because it is annoying to some people. Give them a finger and they take your hand.
OMG. Clouds are FREAKING ANNOYING. I vape, and they are annoying to me.
This entitled attitude of "I can do anything I want, wherever I want, as long as it is legal" is ANNOYING, too.
A little less self-entitlement and a LOT more common sense and awareness of your fellow humans would be appreciated.
This entitled attitude of "I can do anything I want, wherever I want, as long as it is legal" is ANNOYING, too.
A little less self-entitlement and a LOT more common sense and awareness of your fellow humans would be appreciated.
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Smoking was banned in public places because it's annoying as hell, and because second hand smoke is harmful. Guess which one of these two reasons gets laws passed? That's right. People have been complaining about the smell of analogs decades before the health factor allowed the passing of a non-smoking law. There were smoker and non-smoker sections in restaurants decades before any law was passed as well, and these establishment policies were vigourously enforced, and rightfully so.
And that's also why it is just as obnoxious and rude to vape indoors when non-smokers/non-vapers are around.
I get the part where things that are new are so cool that you want to show them to everyone and school the peons, but this phase has to wear off at some point. You venture back into intellectual adulthood and realize that what you are doing is extremely annoying when done indoors.
We always blame others who we think give our hobby a bad rep, and while we ponder about this very important matter, we accompany our reflexion by breaking out the PV in a movie theater because "Yo, there's not a lot of people so it's cool and besides, It'S NoT sMoKiNg am I right? Right?". Out of the 20 people in the theater, you can be sure that at least ONE will think you are a jackass. And this person is right.
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Having smoked 50+ years, maybe I can give you a perspective of what use to be back when there were no smoking bans anywhere. 
Women did not smoke while walking or on the street. I never saw anyone smoking in a grocery or a department store......nor in church or in a classroom or on school property. Of course, the elementry and high schools did have a ban against smoking. However, you could smoke on college campus and the student union, but saw no one smoked in class.
You could smoke on planes. They had ashtrays inset in the arms of the seat. You could smoke in bars and restaurants. Could even smoke in hospital waiting rooms and in your own room. My oldest daughter's first doctor smoked in the examination room! I didn't, but did in the waiting room.
My point is that there were no signs anywhere that said "no smoking." During this time where about half of the adult population smoked there seemed to be a certain etiquette followed. No one sat me down to tell me where and when to smoke. Just observation.
Ran this by hubby who's several years older than me and has always been a non-smoker for any correction in what I remember. Got it right so far. Is anybody else old enough to add to this?
Women did not smoke while walking or on the street. I never saw anyone smoking in a grocery or a department store......nor in church or in a classroom or on school property. Of course, the elementry and high schools did have a ban against smoking. However, you could smoke on college campus and the student union, but saw no one smoked in class. You could smoke on planes. They had ashtrays inset in the arms of the seat. You could smoke in bars and restaurants. Could even smoke in hospital waiting rooms and in your own room. My oldest daughter's first doctor smoked in the examination room! I didn't, but did in the waiting room.
My point is that there were no signs anywhere that said "no smoking." During this time where about half of the adult population smoked there seemed to be a certain etiquette followed. No one sat me down to tell me where and when to smoke. Just observation.
Ran this by hubby who's several years older than me and has always been a non-smoker for any correction in what I remember. Got it right so far. Is anybody else old enough to add to this?
So ever since ownership of civilian machine guns was heavily taxed, licensed and regulated in the '30s and the manufacture of civilian machine guns was banned in the '80s they haven't been going after guns because they simply look like machine guns?
It's not like the FDA was illegally confiscating ecig shipments that in no possible way could blow clouds long before there were enough people using them for anyone to be annoyed. The problem isn't the ANTZ mentality, all the blame lies at the feet of something that's rather new on the scene.
Enjoy your time blaming your fellow vapers. You'll eventually discover while you were building up the enemy and giving them more power that you were pushing yourself under the bus just like the NRA discovered with their backing of the '30's gun ban.
It's not like the FDA was illegally confiscating ecig shipments that in no possible way could blow clouds long before there were enough people using them for anyone to be annoyed. The problem isn't the ANTZ mentality, all the blame lies at the feet of something that's rather new on the scene.
Enjoy your time blaming your fellow vapers. You'll eventually discover while you were building up the enemy and giving them more power that you were pushing yourself under the bus just like the NRA discovered with their backing of the '30's gun ban.
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