my opinion: heavy users are downfall for the rest

[GuusS]

So you proclaim the right to be a jackass because you consider it a great harmless hobby?

Smoking was banned in public places because it's annoying as hell, and because second hand smoke is harmful. Guess which one of these two reasons gets laws passed? That's right.

And that's also why it is just as obnoxious and rude to vape indoors when non-smokers/non-vapers are around.

I get the part where things that are new are so cool that you want to show them to everyone and school the peons, but this phase has to wear off at some point. You venture back into intellectual adulthood and realize that what you are doing is extremely annoying when done indoors.

We always blame others who we think give our hobby a bad rep, and while we ponder about this very important matter, we accompany our reflexion by breaking out the PV in a movie theater because "Yo, there's not a lot of people so it's cool and besides, It'S NoT sMoKiNg am I right? Right?". Out of the 20 people in the theater, you can be sure that at least ONE will think you are a jackass. And this person is right.

Wow... easy... being called a jackass annoys the heck out of me. ;-)

If you look up the official reasons for the ban on smoking in public places you'll find it's because of the second hand smoke.

So many different things are annoying to so many different people, as long as you don't harm someone you should live and let live, at least that's how I live. I don't agree with everything, have different annoyances but don't dictate people how to live their lives as long as they are not harming me, they may annoy me but that's my problem because it's my annoyance. Just my

 

[chellemmm]

sigh.....

 

[zahzoo]

I'm old enough to recall when smoking was normalized... You could smoke virtually anywhere. Hospitals, stores, banks, airplanes, buses, doctors offices, dentists, etc... It took a couple of decades starting with small incremental restrictions and eventually federal, state and local laws to de-normalize smoking in the US... other parts of the world are still trending towards denormalization.

While using e-cigs in any configuration is NOT smoking... the whole physical act of vaping 99.9% mimics the act of smoking. The only difference is content of the input/output and a burning flame.

Remember... while vaper usage is growing by the thousands, maybe millions if you measure it globally. In the US more than 80% of the population are non-smokers and non-vapers. Among smokers and former smokers vapers only represent less than 10% of that demographic.

vaping in public anywhere once again mimics smoking... 80+% of the general population has no interest in "normalizing" smoking in public. To think you can stealth vape or even blatantly vape anywhere you darn well please is naive, rude and just isn't going to happen.

It doesn't matter that it's water vapor or mostly harmless... it took a good 20 years to get smoking in public out of the mix. No matter the amount of harm reduction that 80+% of people who don't smoke/vape aren't going to tolerate us and our clouds...

 

[JayQC]

If you look up the official reasons for the ban on smoking in public places you'll find it's because of the second hand smoke.

So many different things are annoying to so many different people, as long as you don't harm someone you should live and let live, at least that's how I live. I don't agree with everything, have different annoyances but don't dictate people how to live their lives as long as they are not harming me, they may annoy me but that's my problem because it's my annoyance. Just my

Would you vape in the non-smoker section of a restaurant?

 

[drksideken]

This is one of those things where common sense is king in my opinion. Sure, if you go to a vape meet your going to see cloud chasers as sure as you would see 100 Klingon warriors at a Star Trek convention. If your inside of a vape shop, yeah, you would see it there too. Out and about in your normal everyday places where the hobby aspect is less and the actual necessity of vaping (for the habit/nicotine of it for an average user.) Use your brain. If it's not illegal, then there should't be a problem just vaping. I think cloud chasing has it's place, but right now, to the people who's opinions we are all trying to sway in favor of vaping (the ones out in public where we do everyday things.) a person walking toward you blowing giant sized clouds might as well be a fire breathing dragon. I just woke up so I don't know if I'm making sense or not and this is before coffee. In short...a time and a place for everything.

 

[KenD]

This attitude is just as dangerous to vapers as is blowing out gallons of fog in public places. Whether we are talking about smoke or vapor, there is no difference in how annoying both of them are to non-smokers/non-vapors.

And don't give me the "second hand smoke is worse" excuse. If you justify your public lack of respect and utmost jackassery by saying "It's not smoke, it's vapor" while being escorted out of a restaurant, you are the biggest problem in the vaping community.

To anyone but smokers and vapors, vapors are smokers. We should not aim to change that because it has no impact on the reasons why we vape.

We do it for ourselves, not so others think of us any differently and suddenly allow us to vape in their home, stores, restaurants or other premises.

Being in any non-smoking area means two things :

- There is no harmful second hand smoke floating around.
- You will not have to walk through a cloud of airborne .... or sit on a chair and have one blown towards you.

Clouds are ....ing annoying whether they come from an analog cigarette or a provari. If you don't understand that, you are either 17 years old and totally stoked on v@pinglolbro or socially impared to an alarming degree.

If you vape in a public non-smoking area because it's totally not smoking it's vapor man, you are a jackass, no matter how discreet you are.

EDIT : This reminds me of 1998 all over again. It's not stealing man, it's sharing. Remember this? Those were the times.

My original point was that you shouldn't call it smoking when it's not, not that it's necessarily ok because it's not smoking. However, non-smoking public spaces came about due to safety and odour concerns, not due to visual impact. Vapour has neither, and it dissipates much quicker. Smoke is most definitely more annoying than vapour. I certainly haven't met a non-smoker who doesn't agree, and when I was a smoker I was bothered by indoors smoking.

Btw, I do vape indoors publicly. In bars where I've asked if it's ok, when teaching (university), and in meetings and seminars. I don't vape in restaurants. Outside I vape pretty much wherever, and I don't hide it as if I was ashamed of it.

Also, jackasses can often be identified by them calling others jackasses...

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[JayQC]

My original point was that you shouldn't call it smoking when it's not, not that it's necessarily ok because it's not smoking. However, non-smoking public spaces came about due to safety and odour concerns, not due to visual impact. Vapour has neither, and it dissipates much quicker. Smoke is most definitely more annoying than vapour. I certainly haven't met a non-smoker who doesn't agree, and when I was a smoker I was bothered by indoors smoking.

Btw, I do vape indoors publicly. In bars where I've asked if it's ok, when teaching (university), and in meetings and seminars. I don't vape in restaurants. Outside I vape pretty much wherever, and I don't hide it as if I was ashamed of it.

Also, jackasses can often be identified by them calling others jackasses...

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It's funny because I don't hide either, but I also never get dirty looks or people scolding me because I vape publicly.

The debate is not whether vaping is smoking or not, it's whether clouds and airborne vapor are annoying or not.

P.S. and FYI : Flavored vapor does have a smell, and flavorless vapor would be annoying to a non-smoker sitting on a park bench because it's a cloud.

 

[GuusS]

Would you vape in the non-smoker section of a restaurant?

No. But public places include parks, beaches, airports, stations, bars etc. Since vaping is what it is I'd like my freedom to vape in a park or on the beach.

 

[Asbestos4004]

So...after reading through this thread again...it should probably have the title edited. Maybe "Stupid, Selfish and Inconsiderate Users are Downfall for the Rest". That's a thread title I think we can all agree on. To single out cloud chasers as the problem is inaccurate and unfair.

 

[Equilibrium]

Would you vape in the non-smoker section of a restaurant?

I wouldn't even consider it.

Even before smoking was banned in restaurants I felt uncomfortable lighting up, so I never did. 20 years later, I can still remember the looks people got when they smoked in a restaurant.

IMO... If you can't wait until you get outside, you've got a serious problem!

 

[Equilibrium]

No. But public places include parks, beaches, airports, stations, bars etc. Since vaping is what it is I'd like my freedom to vape in a park or on the beach.

I freely vape OUTSIDE unless I'm in a huge crowd.

I was at a Braves game a while back and brought my PV with me but I was reluctant to vape until I saw two guys a few seats away stealth vaping and no one was giving them the look or saying anything. I joined in on the stealth vaping and all was good

 

[Asbestos4004]

Balance is that place we pass while swinging wildly from left to right.

 

[KenD]

It's funny because I don't hide either, but I also never get dirty looks or people scolding me because I vape publicly.

The debate is not whether vaping is smoking or not, it's whether clouds and airborne vapor are annoying or not.

P.S. and FYI : Flavored vapor does have a smell, and flavorless vapor would be annoying to a non-smoker sitting on a park bench because it's a cloud.

I don't get dirty looks either.

I'm well aware that flavoured vapour has a smell. It is, however, not nearly as strong as most perfumes. By that logic perfumes should be banned in public spaces, and people with a strong body odour, and people who look annoying, speak funnily, dress in ways that annoy people, etc etc. Why single out vapour and vapers? That being said, courtesy goes a long way, and that applies to discussions online as well.

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[Equilibrium]

Balance is that place we pass while swinging wildly from left to right.

Exactly! My "swinging wildly" (self destructive choices) almost killed me so now I'm finding (found) a happy medium.

 

[Vaslovik]

I don't get dirty looks either.

I'm well aware that flavoured vapour has a smell. It is, however, not nearly as strong as most perfumes. By that logic perfumes should be banned in public spaces, and people with a strong body odour, and people who look annoying, speak funnily, dress in ways that annoy people, etc etc. Why single out vapour and vapers? That being said, courtesy goes a long way, and that applies to discussions online as well.

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YES! ^^^^THIS!

I don't vape anywhere I would not have smoked, and I only vape where it's expressly allowed, and still the social attack poodles come after me with their nastiness. There are two sides of the street here, and some don't hesitate to cross over and be nasty when they can, inventing reasons and faking when they have to just because they know they can get away with it and make trouble for us, which is what they seem to live for. I've seen it too many times to think the problem is all on our side of the street. It's not!

 

[Vaslovik]

.

Enjoy your time blaming your fellow vapers. You'll eventually discover while you were building up the enemy and giving them more power that you were pushing yourself under the bus just like the NRA discovered with their backing of the '30's gun ban.

Thank you for this, my sentiments exactly.

 

[JayQC]

I'm well aware that flavoured vapour has a smell. It is, however, not nearly as strong as most perfumes. By that logic perfumes should be banned in public spaces, and people with a strong body odour, and people who look annoying, speak funnily, dress in ways that annoy people, etc etc. Why single out vapour and vapers?

"I'll blow a cloud in your face because your perfume is strong."

"Look, I understand my vapor is annoying to you but there's a guy with a funny voice right over there so I'll vape."

"This guy dresses funny, so it's okay to blow out flavored vapor in this area."

"I don't like Deep Purple, and this guy across the street has a Deep Purple shirt. I'm annoyed by it, so it's okay for me to whip out my kayfun and blow vapor everywhere."

"This dude in the bus with the gym bag smells like he actually just got back from working out. I'm slightly put off by the smell. Time to break out the dripper."

You tell me if those make any sense to you.

There is a stigma attached to vaping, and there's nothing you can do about it. No justification or example of other annoying things in life will make up for it. The person wearing a strong perfume cannot NOT smell, if you tell that person that their perfume is terrible, they might actually take note and change their habit the next day. The vaper can decide to not be obnoxious in a second and not pull out his PV in a crowded area.

The vaper doesn't have to wait until tomorrow to put on less perfume or change their clothes to be less annoying to others, he can stop being annoying right now.

It's pretty enlightening to read "We should be able to do what we want whenever we want because some people look annoying and dress in annoying ways."

And you want to give me a lesson on courtesy? Seriously?

 

[zahzoo]

The dirty looks stem from the public hatred of smoking... Pure and simple.

There is no escaping the visual aspect of vaping mirroring smoking. It's not the smell.

The non-smoker sees a hand to mouth motion followed by an exhaled white cloud. Their brain processes this and identifies smoking... higher reasoning dictates smoking is bad, dirty and stinks... brain sends message to facial muscles to display appropriate expression of disgust. All in a matter of a second or less... amazing isn't it!!

 

[Vaslovik]

The dirty looks stem from the public hatred of smoking... Pure and simple.

There is no escaping the visual aspect of vaping mirroring smoking. It's not the smell.

The non-smoker sees a hand to mouth motion followed by an exhaled white cloud. Their brain processes this and identifies smoking... higher reasoning dictates smoking is bad, dirty and stinks... brain sends message to facial muscles to display appropriate expression of disgust. All in a matter of a second or less... amazing isn't it!!

And they plainly see in your hand what quite obviously isn't a cigarette and decide to come after you anyway, just because they can and because they are just nasty people full of hate and need to bash someone and you are as good a target as a smoker in their eyes.

 

[Equilibrium]

...... Man, I loves me some popcorn!