my opinion: heavy users are downfall for the rest

[Kevintoczko]

Also weather you use anything such as an e-Roll or a Caravela mod I think people are going to judge because they're ignorant to vaping so proclaim whatever device you use vape on and fight this stuff together don't pin it in others who turn it into a hobby and all that good stuff at least it's helped us out in so many ways weather it's cut you down in nic levels or brought you to 0nic we are all in this together so let's beat all of this together!!

 

[imb1610]

#1 ok for the record we are still ignorant to vaping on the effects on health from diacetyl, acetoin, and acetyl propionyl.
#2 This may have a "POTENTIAL second handsmoke effect" - Unknown (may be cancerous may be perfectly fine)
#3 The visual of "smoke" produced by cloud chasers may indeed be more frightening to the ignorance of those that dont know of ecigs
#4 Even if #3 is correct i would never want to infringe upon the rights of a fellow vaper or participate in shaming him for vaping
#5 If #1&2 are correct i am "A ok" with being shipped away to the smokers section why? because i cant and wont willingly and knowingly cause harm to others(of course studies would have to be done)
#6 I say cloud chasers may be adding a problem but oh well because i think the freedom is much more important educating the ignorant is the way to go not demonizing fellow vapers

 

[illitirit]

im 100% a cloud chaser. Im also 100% polite in public. I only go crazy if im at home. I still take out my 0.2 ohm drippers out daily but i dont do huge lung pulls while im in public. I dont vape where I wouldnt be able to smoke.

Anyone who says sub-ohming is stupid really has no idea about it at all. Sub-ohming is the only thing that took me to the level of being cig free.

 

[Hulamoon]

I haven't a clue about sub-ohming, I'm not a nay sayer either. I really like your comment. It is more about pure courtesy than anything else, something that seems to be in short supply. And Congratulations on being cig-free!

As to the impolite, in-your-face-in-public show-off brigade, the bottom line is this -

You can't fix stupid.

im 100% a cloud chaser. Im also 100% polite in public. I only go crazy if im at home. I still take out my 0.2 ohm drippers out daily but i dont do huge lung pulls while im in public. I dont vape where I wouldnt be able to smoke.

Anyone who says sub-ohming is stupid really has no idea about it at all. Sub-ohming is the only thing that took me to the level of being cig free.

 

[Vaslovik]

For instance, blowing extreme vaping RDA's while shopping where parents have their kids with them, like at a mall or grocery store is probably a bad idea.

Like at a restaurant, blowing thick clouds around while patrons are dining, probably a bad idea.

... and for God's sake, maybe if you happen to be attending a city council meeting where the topic being debated is banning e-cigs from indoor public use, maybe this isn't the ideal environment to show the decision makers how awesome your .2ohm dripper is as a portable fog machine.

Yes, I've seen instances of all of the above. You can thump your chest about your rights all you want, but this kind of lack of common sense is what gets those rights taken away.

I've never yet seen any such instances where I live, and your examples smack of hyperbole to me. Seems like you are on the same team as the OP here, and not on our side at all.

 

[quadraginta]

Haven't read this whole thread, but have read enough to realize my vape everywhere position is still unchanged.

<snip>

Also always interesting when some vaper claims it's these people (these vapers) who are ruining it for the rest of us. Mostly fascinating because all politically aware vapers on ECF fully realize our opposition really doesn't care about our discussion on this. If anything, it would likely humor them. Instead, our opposition, as can be seen in legislative area of this forum, proposes usage bans because a) they know they can likely get it thru with right political party there to pass the votes and push it through and b) because it is a key step toward larger goal of decimating the industry and/or shaming its users.

As I mentioned (about four posts ago, maybe you hadn't read that far back) this isn't really germane to the topic at hand.

Also interesting cause if I were opposition, I'd come onto a forum just like this one and tell people to stop doing it. I'd claim that openly doing it and freely vaping is ruining it for everyone, and I'd hope that at least some would listen to me and then agree with the logic so that when 'we' propose usage bans in your neck of the woods, we'd know that we can count on you to support the rationale that says do not vape where you cannot smoke. Hoping that some of you will not question it, and just accept that it is as wrong/shameful as public smoking. Hoping also that you will agree with 'us' that it is wrong even outside. And that when we have captured enough areas, starting with the biggest cities first, we can tackle areas like own home, and own car, for surely you agree with 'us' that it is that shameful. That rude of a behavior. Please help 'us' promote that vaping is inherently a rude activity. If you can't bring yourself there just yet, that's okay. We are patient. Just go along with notion that indoors, regardless of situation, it is always wrong. Always.

Ahh. Conspiracy!!?!!??

Bonus points if you tattle on fellow vapers for daring to do it in certain places. Extra credit if you do all you can on vaping forums to shame fellow vapers who dare admit that they do it in public. Keep up the fine work and who knows, maybe one day (when you come to your sense and quit this nasty, shameful habit) we can make you a poster child for our cause. Then you'll get to see that we don't really care at all if it is done, cause we know it will be done while vaping is in its Golden Era. But you'll help us bring an end to that won't you? Bring it to the place where smoking now resides?

Where shame and scorn reign supreme.

And appeal to emotion. Good stuff.

I'm convinced.

 

[zanthious]

the irony of this is everytime i bring this topic up the hate train of vapers roll in and call me ignorant. Cloud chasers are the reason we are going to be banned from everywhere, but the cloud chasers seem to be the majority of the Vape People so because of how generalization works, Vapers will ruin Vaping and when it happens everyone will act surprised. *shrug*

 

[DaveP]

For me, vaping wasn't a hobby, it was a way off a 35 year cigarette addiction. I still vape because I enjoy the activity and the low level nic intake is said to be good for the brain, just like the caffeine in coffee perks up your awareness and mental processes.

Outside, I vape normally in public. Inside, I stealth vape and try to keep clouds down to a minimum by exhaling downward and doing long pulls instead of primer puffs. It's just a considerate way to vape, IMO.

 

[quadraginta]

I've never yet seen any such instances where I live, and your examples smack of hyperbole to me. Seems like you are on the same team as the OP here, and not on our side at all.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it never happens.

I don't see enough people vaping in public to even get a representative sample. But I'm not going to call someone a liar just because my experiences aren't the same as theirs. (Which is what you are intimating by "hyperbole".)

And I don't agree with the idea that we have different teams or sides except in the most microscopic sense.

We all want the same thing. (Okay, maybe except for the opposition sleepers the conspiracy has slipped into the forum to lead us astray.) We want to keep the legal and social constraints on vaping to a minimum.

As somebody up-thread cogently pointed out, it doesn't do any good to crystallize opinion against us by reinforcing preconceptions.

It isn't a fight we'll win by arrogance and chest-thumping.

 

[exnihilo]

Yeah, I have.



Anyone has a right to tell a smoker that their smoking is bothering them because they don't like the smell. Same for vaping.

Just like someone has a right to ask another person to turn down their music if they are blasting it out of, say, portable speakers hooked up to a smart phone.

When I vape in public places I make sure they allow it, then I blow my vapor down and if I realize it gets carried over to other people I move downwind from them. If I cannot vape in a public area without bothering other people then I simply don't vape.

I don't "stealth vape". My device is in plain view and I use it in plain view, I don't hide nor will I ever, but I use it in such a way that no one can complain.

In that case, "I fart in your general direction! "

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[JayQC]

But I will say this...

You are SO incredibly wrong that it's frightening.
You are wrong scientifically for starters, and in just about every other way I can think of.

So you think that most non-smokers that see a guy vaping away with a device they have never seen, and only heard of, will immediately break out the scientific method and dive into a study about the molecular properties of vaporized chemicals?

The point I am making is about other people's perception of the hobby in public places, which might understandably stir up some controversy. To most people, whether you like it or not and whether it's "scientifically" right or wrong to you, what looks like smoke is smoke. You cannot blame people for this and you have to take it into account.

It's about what it looks like from outside of the realm of vapers. What it looks like from the perspective of Joe Average who gets his facts from Fox News and spots a vaper indoors in a public place and takes it upon himself to exact pink lung revenge. The point I'm making is not about your perception of vaping or mine, as educated vapers.

Vaper's perception of vaping is understandably biaised, as they get extremely insecure and defensive when confronted with the hard reality that what looks like smoke is smoke to 99% of bystanders.

The problem is they expect bystanders to be just like them and accept them without question while the media is trying their best to demonize and cast doubt over vaping.

Not expecting some bystanders to react to vaping in public places and question the hobby and potential health risks of bystanders, not to mention object to clouds of what-looks-like-smoke being carried over to them is naïve and slightly bigoted. Add to this the defiant and increasingly daring attitude of a lot of vapers who go further than they did back when they smoked because "vaping is not smoking" and you have a nice recipe for a PR disaster, which I am pointing out and being mostly berated for it.

That's okay. Obviously, vapers are the wrong sample of population to evaluate public opinion on vaping, and they react equally strongly as they expect bystanders to instantly understand that smoking and vaping are scientifically different.

I'll just requote myself cause I'm a damn genius.

I don't expect non-smokers to know the ins-and-outs of vaping any more than I expected Tipper Gore to get Frank Zappa back in '86.

Thus, I don't blame them for being ignorant.

It's the denial that apart from toxicity, vaping and smoking pose the same problem to bystanders that leads me to wonder just how conscious vapers really are about their hobby.

As demonstrated expertly throughout the many pages of this juggernaut.

 

[e-pipeman]

"The point I am making is about other people's perception of the hobby in public places, which might understandably stir up some controversy."

Yes, it did.

"To most people, whether you like it or not and whether it's "scientifically" right or wrong to you, what looks like smoke is smoke. You cannot blame people for this and you have to take it into account."

You can blame people for it. Ignorance is not a defence, and if they start throwing a fit because of their ignorance then they are not behaving politely or considerately. Nobody has to take such behaviour "into account". "There's no smoke without fire" has never been a reasoned argument. All imho, of course.

 

[JayQC]

"The point I am making is about other people's perception of the hobby in public places, which might understandably stir up some controversy."

Yes, it did.

"To most people, whether you like it or not and whether it's "scientifically" right or wrong to you, what looks like smoke is smoke. You cannot blame people for this and you have to take it into account."

You can blame people for it. Ignorance is not a defence, and if they start throwing a fit because of their ignorance then they are not behaving politely or considerately. Nobody has to take such behaviour "into account". "There's no smoke without fire" has never been a reasoned argument. All imho, of course.

It does boggle the mind that in this day and age so many people are still ignorant, but I don't blame Joe Silklungs for being suspicious of a device that mimicks a demonized habit to the T and is being paraded around (rightfully so) as a way to walk away from it. To Joe Silklungs, electronic cigarettes are the pinnacle of irony.

Check this out, taken from another thread :

I'd ask them WHY THEY CARE, and what business is it of theirs? Too many people out there have become social control freaks and I've become heartily sick of them. It's none of their business in the first place and they need to get a life.

Vaslovik has been very critical of my posts about adjusting your attitute and habits to the chronic ignorance that plagues our society, [Inappropriate]
You tell me how you think Joe Silklungs will react to such a defensive stance.

I swear to god I'm not trying to dig for it, it just pops up regularly on the forums and it's a shame.

 

[JayQC]

In that case, "I fart in your general direction! "

I smell the methane in your post. Good thing I don't smoke anymore

 

[Mig01]

Ignorance is a defence in that case. People actively seek information only for things and issues that interest them. Most non smokers are not especially interested in learning about vaping. So, the information they get is what the mainstream media feeds them and they do not look further. They form an opinion based on that, so if the mainstream media tend to disseminate negative information about e-cigs and vaping, that is what the non interested people will believe.
I cannot blame them for not actively seeking more information. What I can do is offer them more accurate information and sources for that info so that they can check for themselves.

 

[e-pipeman]

Ignorance is a defence in that case. People actively seek information only for things and issues that interest them. Most non smokers are not especially interested in learning about vaping. So, the information they get is what the mainstream media feeds them and they do not look further. They form an opinion based on that, so if the mainstream media tend to disseminate negative information about e-cigs and vaping, that is what the non interested people will believe.
I cannot blame them for not actively seeking more information. What I can do is offer them more accurate information and sources for that info so that they can check for themselves.

You can blame them for not seeking that information if they proceed as if they know the last word on the subject and are prepared to back up that stance by being offensively priggish.

 

[Vermonster13]

They need to outlaw colognes and perfumes. You can't see the clouds but the smell will bring tears to your eyes.

 

[skoony]

been a lot of talk about the perceptions of non-smokers.i have decided,so what?
if they get to behave by reacting to their perceptions so do i.its time for them to start considering our perceptions.
my perception is,i am not harming you,shut up,go away,and quit treating me like a bleeping (insert illegal substance here) addict.

regards
mike

 

[Steam Turbine]

No body cares about cloud chasers. They are to busy thinking "what about the kids" to even notice a 0.35Ω dual coil cloud. The biggest (and practically only) critics of Cloud Chasers are Vapers...

Read the news, cloud chasing article represent 0.001% of all the articles. The common themes are 1-Kidz 2-Not harmless water vapor 3-vaping-bans (regardless of the amount of vapor).

Making scapegoats out of Coud Chasers serves no one.

 

[JoshUng]

I look at it like this, people don't like getting breathed on. If you were an inch away from somebody on just breathed on them, they wouldn't like it. Now, if they're ten feet away, your breath will still eventually get to them, but they won't notice.

When you vape, you're "coloring" your breath. So now that person can tell that your breath is "touching" them. Nothing else has really changed (hell, if anything, the vape probably smells better), but now they know.
"
I don't think vapers need to hide. I just think they need to follow the simple rule everybody else in the world should "don't be a jerk". Don't blow clouds in people's faces and so on. I don't hide it, I don't make a big deal of it either, I do it like there is nothing wrong with it, like it doesn't need any attention at all.