New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[mikepetro]

I was in Asheville last week at a music festival in the park. There was a grandma, her daughter, and her granddaughter, sitting next to me. Grandma was vaping some sort of ego-like battery with a CE4 on it.......

This was out in the "wild"...... Yep, they are still in use, and YES, the vape shops will still gladly sell them.

 

[awsum140]

When I was down in Patrick Spring last November our friend took us to a vape shop IN Martinsville. She bought an Ego style battery and some CE4s along with replacement coils. Lots of that stuff is still out there in the wild.

 

[mikepetro]

When I was down in Patrick Spring last November our friend took us to a vape shop IN Martinsville. She bought an Ego style battery and some CE4s along with replacement coils. Lots of that stuff is still out there in the wild.

Yeah, I know the place (its the only one in town). I had to teach their most senior employee how to reassemble a Kayfun, after she herself took it apart. Havent been back since.

 

[zoiDman]

I was in Asheville last week at a music festival in the park. There was a grandma, her daughter, and her granddaughter, sitting next to me. Grandma was vaping some sort of ego-like battery with a CE4 on it.......

This was out in the "wild"...... Yep, they are still in use, and YES, the vape shops will still gladly sell them.

When I run into Vapers in the Wild, more times than not they are using what we would consider Older Hardware.

Here on the ECF, we are Bombarded by the Latest and the Greatest. But for the Vast Majority who are not on an e-Cigarette Forum, exposure to "Newer" hardware might be Very Limited.

 

[Eskie]

Yeah, I know the place (its the only one in town). I had to teach their most senior employee how to reassemble a Kayfun, after she herself took it apart. Havent been back since.

 

[GeorgeS]

When I run into Vapers in the Wild, more times than not they are using what we would consider Older Hardware.

Here on the ECF, we are Bombarded by the Latest and the Greatest. But for the Vast Majority who are not on an e-Cigarette Forum, exposure to "Newer" hardware might be Very Limited.

Considering the older stuff can be found ether dirt cheap or cheaper than dirt (imagine all the clones China produced) there is a fairly good economic reason to stay with the older stuff.

I mean - if it works for you why not use it?

I pull out my Kanger 650ma single bottom coil (2.4ohm) EVOD from time to time just for fun. With the right juice mix (PG/VG/NIC) it seems to work fairly well - the battery lasts long enough for me to drain the tank (and then a bit). I forget if it is 1.4-1.8ml tank but the size and weight is hard to beat.

 

[mikepetro]

Considering the older stuff can be found ether dirt cheap or cheaper than dirt (imagine all the clones China produced) there is a fairly good economic reason to stay with the older stuff.

This is also why so many "average" folks get this kind of hardware. They walk into a vape shop and they can get an Ego/CE4 for $15, versus the $100 being charged for a temp control mod. They dont know any better, and most likely dont realize they can get better hardware online for half the price. Even if the vape shop tried to educate them about the pitfalls, which I would wager that most dont, the average noob is going to be price driven. Especially if they arent confident it will work for them.

Consequently there is a lot of old tech out there still in use, and most of them will never see the information posted in this thread. And I can say from my own personal experience, quite a bit of the older tech is not as safe as the newer tech.

I got chastised for including "even in Tootle Puffers" in the title of this thread, but I honestly and truly believe it to be true.

 

[zoiDman]

Considering the older stuff can be found ether dirt cheap or cheaper than dirt (imagine all the clones China produced) there is a fairly good economic reason to stay with the older stuff.

...

Yeah... That is also something that B&M Retailers like.

Wholesale Costs that are next to Nothing.

 

[Pamawoman]

I met a man at the Magic Kingdom who was vaping a Blu. He said he had been using it for 3 years and was thinking about getting something different. I kind of felt bad for him knowing there is stuff out there that is so much better and cheaper. BUT he quit smoking and that is the goal. I did tell him about this forum. So who knows. Maybe he is here. PS. He was very interested in my ProVari with the mini Nauti.

 

[awsum140]

Yeah, I know the place (its the only one in town). I had to teach their most senior employee how to reassemble a Kayfun, after she herself took it apart. Havent been back since.

Yeah, I noticed a total lack of knowledge about the products and vaping. I checked the replacement coils they gave us right at the counter and they were the wrong ones. When you're the only game in town I guess you can get away with anything.

 

[mikepetro]

Yeah, I noticed a total lack of knowledge about the products and vaping. I checked the replacement coils they gave us right at the counter and they were the wrong ones. When you're the only game in town I guess you can get away with anything.

Its a shame,, a REAL shame. You have known me long enough, I will help anyone who treats me civilly. But when it's a "business", who is clearly making a 100%+ markup, well, I didnt feel any responsibility to to try and educate them. I just never went back.

 

[Robino1]

We, that used the Vivi Nova, learned to tilt and twirl to keep the wicks wet. I was so good at it, I could vape one almost dry.

They may be popular because of ease of use.

We have to remember, smokers are used to just pulling a cig out of a pack and lighting up. When first starting to vape, they are looking for ease of use.

I still prefer ease of use and really dislike making coils. I only make them because I needed to learn. I only needed to learn because of deeming.

We need new vapers. The more vapers there are, the more pull we have.

We truly need devices for the new vapers. Devices that are safe and easy.

 

[awsum140]

Our friend, down there, is stuck with that for her supplies. I tried steering her onto ECF, or a least online, for supplies but she can't be bothered. Even custom mixed her a pile of liquids and shipped it down to her. I think she's back to stinkies exclusively. A shame.

I felt a little strange when we were in there. I was standing there vaping a DNA40 with the "latest and greatest" in the display case being an iStick.

 

[mikepetro]

We, that used the Vivi Nova, learned to tilt and twirl to keep the wicks wet. I was so good at it, I could vape one almost dry.

They may be popular because of ease of use.

We have to remember, smokers are used to just pulling a cig out of a pack and lighting up. When first starting to vape, they are looking for ease of use.

I still prefer ease of use and really dislike making coils. I only make them because I needed to learn. I only needed to learn because of deeming.

We need new vapers. The more vapers there are, the more pull we have.

We truly need devices for the new vapers. Devices that are safe and easy.

I "get" it....

There is plenty of evidence showing they arent the best choice, but a lot of vapers dont know or believe it, or just dont care. I am going to measure them, see what the temperature story really is under actual vaping conditions. Then we will have an idea what the "safer" settings are when placed on VV/VW devices. That combined with knowing about juice boiling points will give people informed choices.

In any event, they are better than smoking regardless.

 

[mikepetro]

We truly need devices for the new vapers. Devices that are safe and easy.

And inexpensive, as I truly believe noobs are driven by price more often than not.

Actually, as much as I hate that most are made by tobacco companies, I think a lot of the newer Pod Mods satisfy all the requirements except price.

 

[mikepetro]

When I run into Vapers in the Wild, more times than not they are using what we would consider Older Hardware.

Here on the ECF, we are Bombarded by the Latest and the Greatest. But for the Vast Majority who are not on an e-Cigarette Forum, exposure to "Newer" hardware might be Very Limited.

This is very much a truism....

 

[mikepetro]

At some point in this thread someone raised the point of how much negative pressure were we pulling inside the chamber with our draws, and if that might affect the boiling point of our liquids. So I decided to test it......

Test was performed on a Merlin RTA, other attys with a smaller chamber might have "slightly" more vacuum.

The range of vacuum being pulled by what "I" consider an average MTL hit was -.03psi to -.07psi. With the afc ring open I got -.04 on average, with the AFC closed off to minimum usable level I got -0.06 average. Not enough to even have a quarter degree effect on the boiling point.

The range of vacuum being pulled by what "I" consider an average DL hit was -0.25psi to -0.41psi, with the AFC ring wide open. A vacuum that small is not likely to affect the boiling point of an eliquid by enough to even consider., maybe 1 degree at most - if that.

Instrument was a Meriam M1 Series Digital Manometer, 0-832"H2O differential pressure (30PSI), capable of accurately measuring vacuum:

Instrument was accurate and traceable back to the NIST.

 

[zoiDman]

...

The range of vacuum being pulled by what "I" consider an average MTL hit was -.03psi to -.07psi. With the afc ring open I got -.04 on average, with the AFC closed off to minimum usable level I got -0.06 average. Not enough to even have a quarter degree effect on the boiling point.

The range of vacuum being pulled by what "I" consider an average DL hit was -0.25psi to -0.41psi, with the AFC ring wide open. A vacuum that small is not likely to affect the boiling point of an eliquid by enough to even consider., maybe 1 degree at most - if that.

...

Nice work Mike.



And I think you are Right. That Very Small amount of Vacuum doesn't seem like it would have Any Realistic Effect on the Boiling Point of the e-Liquid.

Say I have a Household Vacuum Cleaner that can create about -20kPa of pressure.

Vacuum cleaner - Wikipedia

Now say I hooked up my Atomizer to my Vacuum Cleaner. I wonder how much the Drop in Pressure would effect the Boiling point of say Water if I went from around 100kPa normal atmospheric pressure to around 80kPa?

By this chart, that would be about 12F Degrees.

12F isn't all that much. But it was a Drop in the Boiling Point.

Now, how Realistic is the Vacuum Cleaner's suction to the suction I create when I draw on My Atomizer?

 

[Eskie]

Thanks Mike. I'm impressed. I expected the differential wouldn't be all that much, but it's nice to see actual numbers to confirm it.

 

[awsum140]

Mike, does that mean you can't suck a golf ball through a garden hose?

Seriously man, you are going to lengths well above and beyond the above and beyond. While there has to be pressure differential in the atomizer when we inhale, I really didn't expect it to be significant enough to seriously alter the boiling point of liquids. Humans just can't develop that kind of pressure differential, even the cloud producers, in spite of the myth.