New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[beckdg]

I'm sitting here laughing about all the NO-NOs I'm doing [emoji38]

Tell me about it!

Tapatyped

 

[Steamer861]

All this back & forth is just confusing things It's not that hard! you get a TC mod & wire/coil heads what ever you want to use. Stay below 450, It's SAFER! Even a new setup today cost less than 2 weeks worth of cigarettes.

 

[beckdg]

All this back & forth is just confusing things It's not that hard! you get a TC mod & wire/coil heads what ever you want to use. Stay below 450, It's SAFER! Even a new setup today cost less than 2 weeks worth of cigarettes.

If that works for you, sure.

You're not going to pry my mech squonkers and my 14mm atties from my cold, dead hands though.

Tapatyped

 

[NU_FTW]

So it I guess a Good Question is can a Thin Wire build be used that Doesn't Exceed say 4701F if TC is Not Used?

And by Thin Wire, should we use 30ga so that there is a Gauge to talk about?

is it Possible, absolutely. One needs to be more exact in their wicking, more exact in airflow, more exact in Watts, more exact in amount of time power is applied. But you won't feel 400 degrees the same between say I have 34 gauge micro coils on tc set to 400 and I have 26 gauge macro coils set to 400 while both are putting out 400 the 26 will feel hotter in the mouth

 

[tj99959]

All this back & forth is just confusing things It's not that hard! you get a TC mod & wire/coil heads what ever you want to use. Stay below 450, It's SAFER! Even a new setup today cost less than 2 weeks worth of cigarettes.

But-but ........ I DON'T WANT TO !!!!

I like my vape just the way it is !!!!

 

[NU_FTW]

If that works for you, sure.

You're not going to pry my mech squonkers and my 14mm atties from my cold, dead hands though.

Tapatyped

and that's just it, everyone deserves the right to take whatever informed risks they so choose

 

[NU_FTW]

But-but ........ I DON'T WANT TO !!!!

I like my vape just the way it is !!!!

then don't, information =/= law

 

[SlickWilly]

This would seem to contradict multiple previous studies that only showed spikes from CE4's above a certain power level. I agree that a CE4 is much more likely to spike beyond safe levels, due to the small chamber, poor wicking of a top coil design, and the extremely thin wire. What that doesn't mean is that every draw from a CE4 is full of formaldehyde.




What he said.

Again, I'm not arguing that TC isn't useful. I'm arguing against the idea that TC is absolutely necessary for a "safe" vape.

For a "community" that despises how the government is trying to control what we can or cannot do, we sure do like to impose limits on ourselves at the drop of a hat/study.

Won't argue with anything you say.

I don't want big brother leaning on me anymore then he is already is either.

Being a recent survivor of throat cancer I have great interest in keeping my health. I know the surest path would be to not smoke or vape, but after 45 years of not being able to stay away from cigarette's until I found vaping I'm faced with vaping and making it as safe as it can be. So when I see red flag, I'll take note, play it safe and continue to keep tabs of future results.

Two separate oncologist's told me, they were OK with me continuing to vape if it kept me from smoking. They also both cautioned me, "moderation" and that there was still much left unknown.

My 2 cents.

 

[Lessifer]

So it I guess a Good Question is can a Thin Wire build be used that Doesn't Exceed say 4701F if TC is Not Used?

And by Thin Wire, should we use 30ga (or smaller) so that there is a Gauge to talk about?

I'm thinking of it this way, wire mass(which itself is a combination of gauge, length, and to some extent configuration) is one of the variables that contributes to temperature, probably the most important. Wire mass, power applied, liquid availability, airflow, chamber size all play a part. The more wire mass you have, the wider range of the other variables can keep you in the green zone.

Think of it like a highway, Thicker wire is like a 6 lane highway, thinner wire is like a 2 lane road. You can go faster on a 6 lane highway than you can safely on a 2 lane road. You can still drive safely on a 2 lane road, but you have to be more cautious.

 

[Steamer861]

If that works for you, sure.

You're not going to pry my mech squonkers and my 14mm atties from my cold, dead hands though.

Tapatyped

Thats your choice! If you want to ignore the studies that were done, it's your call.
No ones telling you how to vape, evidence was presented showing vaping below 450 is safer!
Use that how you will

 

[beckdg]

and that's just it, everyone deserves the right to take whatever informed risks they so choose

I was nearly bed ridden due to lung function in Nov. 2013.

Now I can jog, run, dance or climb stairs til my legs cramp up without getting out of breath.

I don't feel I'm taking risks.

My health has greatly improved.

I'm happy.

But from an outsiders perspective that feels what I do may be risky, sure, I absolutely agree.

You choose what's a risk for you and how or whether to mitigate it.

Tapatyped

 

[SlickWilly]

In a tc mod, that 500 is the calculated temperature of the wire, right? When you set it to 500 are you actually hitting 500 or are the other limits, i.e. power available, keeping you below that. If you are hitting 500 at the coil, do we know that the liquid itself is reaching 500, or does it start to aerosolize before reaching that temperature? This would be why it would have been great to get measurements from the vapor produced by a coil in tc, and not a steel tube.

Watch John's video in the first post.

 

[beckdg]

Thats your choice! If you want to ignore the studies that were done, it's your call.
No ones telling you how to vape, evidence was presented showing vaping below 450 is safer!
Use that how you will

I'm not ignoring anything.

I'm factoring in the healing I've done and the health benefits I've received from what I've done...

And the fact I've found what works for me.

Doing it your way would result in me smoking again.

And I'm NOT doing that.

Tapatyped

 

[tj99959]

Thats your choice! If you want to ignore the studies that were done, it's your call.
No ones telling you how to vape, evidence was presented showing vaping below 450 is safer!
Use that how you will

But what ever gave you the impression that Beck, or I, are vaping above 450 degrees??

Maybe, just maybe, we know enough about how we vape to do it safely.

 

[zoiDman]

is it Possible, absolutely. One needs to be more exact in their wicking, more exact in airflow, more exact in Watts, more exact in amount of time power is applied. But you won't feel 400 degrees the same between say I have 34 gauge micro coils on tc set to 400 and I have 26 gauge macro coils set to 400 while both are putting out 400 the 26 will feel hotter in the mouth

I'm thinking of it this way, wire mass(which itself is a combination of gauge, length, and to some extent configuration) is one of the variables that contributes to temperature, probably the most important. Wire mass, power applied, liquid availability, airflow, chamber size all play a part. The more wire mass you have, the wider range of the other variables can keep you in the green zone.

Think of it like a highway, Thicker wire is like a 6 lane highway, thinner wire is like a 2 lane road. You can go faster on a 6 lane highway than you can safely on a 2 lane road. You can still drive safely on a 2 lane road, but you have to be more cautious.

And that would seem to be the Inherent Limitation to something like a CE4. Or Many "Clearos". The Inability to Control any of these Variables.

 

[beckdg]

But what ever gave you the impression that Beck, or I, are vaping above 450 degrees??

Maybe, just maybe, we know enough about how we vape to do it safely.

And there's that.

Which I believe is quite possible also.

Thanks tj

Tapatyped

 

[Steamer861]

But what ever gave you the impression that Beck, or I, are vaping above 450 degrees??

Maybe, just maybe, we know enough about how we vape to do it safely.

Ya sure, how much is a pinch of salt?

 

[NU_FTW]

I was nearly bed ridden due to lung function in Nov. 2013.

Now I can jog, run, dance or climb stairs til my legs cramp up without getting out of breath.

I don't feel I'm taking risks.

My health has greatly improved.

I'm happy.

But from an outsiders perspective that feels what I do may be risky, sure, I absolutely agree.

You choose what's a risk for you and how or whether to mitigate it.

Tapatyped

exactly the point I was getting at. It's your body, your life, your decision what to do or not do when presented with information. Informed decision is what got me vaping.

this study, if taken as law, changes nothing for me as I am already in the "green".


now you must do as I do and vape my way. . I kid

 

[NU_FTW]

Ya sure, how much is a pinch of salt?

a dash.

 

[beckdg]

And that would seem to be the Inherent Limitation to something like a CE4. Or Many "Clearos". The Inability to Control any of these Variables.

I think that's still up in the air.

Do we know everything about the variables and techniques of this study to say there wasn't a single inherent flaw to produce such an assumption?

Tapatyped