New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[oplholik]

You would want to use Ni200 if you went with nickle.
I would just get SS, as it could be used in TC or Wattage.

Ok, I do have some SS wire I had forgotten about. Thanks.

 

[Bonskibon]

 

[zoiDman]

You're in the rafters again.

We all know it's a balance.

But it starts here.

Decide what type of vaper you are.

This decides what type of coil you need.

Which then decides a power/airflow/wicking balance.

I've run the gambit.

From 6 to over 100 watts.

From flavorless to mad Murdocks radiator pluid full strength.

From a pin hole to nearly aiming an air mover at my stove top.

From 0mg to 100mg/ml @ 6 to 80 Watts.

Single coil, dual coil, dual twisted, octo coil and claptons alike.

Simple fact;

Give a t-puffer a 20 gauge coil and you're in trouble.

Give a cloud chaser a 34 gauge coil and there won't be a second pull.

Give a mid range vaper either and it's not going to work out.

But once you got it right, you have to match the other variables to get the right draw and surface temperature.

Now let's not resort to emotional string pulling and the facade that somehow this relates to that.

Fact is, it all starts with the coil. You build around it.

Tapatyped

Once Again, I think you are Missing the Concept.

I don't think it Matters what Hardware you are using. Or what Click Name you want to be Called by (or what Click Name someone else wants to Lump you into).

If the Wire Temperature Exceeds a given Temperature, you start to Produce Large Amounts of Toxins. And if you do Not Exceed this Temperature, then the Amount of Toxins is Very Low as compared to Smoking a Cigarette.

It really isn't all that Complex. And it Isn't anything New.

 

[NU_FTW]

I tried an infrared camera, but there was no way to simulate the closed chamber and it airflow.

exactly

 

[Bonskibon]

Ok, I do have some SS wire I had forgotten about. Thanks.

Let me know what you come up with if you would. My vaping style is similar to yours.

 

[mikepetro]

Have you ever cooked anything on a stove? Do you know the exact temperature of the pan when you set the flame to medium? There are other forms of measurement.

Yes, but when I am making a linguini with clam sauce I am not worried about hitting 470F.

You're treating this like a vape is different every time you pick it up. If you dial in a good vape on a particular coil, and you're vaping it at a set power level, it's going to be that way every time you use it unless something goes wrong with your wicking.

I agree that one can achieve a repeatable and consistent vape without TC. How do you dial it in if you dont have a reference temperature? Dial in by taste? I dont trust my tastebuds enough to know the difference between 450 and 470.

 

[oplholik]

Let me know what you come up with if you would. My vaping style is similar to yours.

Yeah, I'll do that Bonskibon, It'll probably take a little while, experimenting and all.

 

[Uncle]

but even tootle puffers try to stay informed!

Trying to, however all this going back and forth about personal interpretation/s of this report is just too confusing and overwhelming . . . As a "Tootle Puffer" who is a dual user and still struggling to become a full time vapor, besides having difficulty dealing with all all the information about what type of equipment is best to use (Cig-a-likes/Mods/Mech/TC, Internal/Replaceable Batteries; Tanks, coils, build your own coils - SS, Nickel, etc.) in this discussion . . . Right now, it is back to square one - since . . .

 

[NU_FTW]

the biggest takeaway is thinner wire higher gauge has a smaller more volatile margin for temp. Because the wire heats up so quick under far less power it is too easy to create these temps without noticing because the surface area is also reduced . Can't just say wire is wire

 

[beckdg]

Once Again, I think you are Missing the Concept.

I don't think it Matters what Hardware you are using. Or what Click Name you want to be Called by (or what Click Name someone else wants to Lump you into).

If the Wire Temperature Exceeds a given Temperature, you start to Produce Large Amounts of Toxins. And if you do Not Exceed this Temperature, then the Amount of Toxins is Very Low as compared to Smoking a Cigarette.

It really isn't all that Complex. And it Isn't anything New.

Jesus, isn't that obvious, z?

But I was staying on the topic you created and I responded to...

Is it the Wire Diameter in Isolation?

Or is Design and Wicking Ability that is the Dominate Factor as to how much Heat can be Exchanged from the Coil to make Vapor?

Neither.

But wire gauge is the dominate factor.

Tapatyped

Speaking of not complex.

Tapatyped

 

[tj99959]

Once Again, I think you are Missing the Concept.

I don't think it Matters what Hardware you are using. Or what Click Name you want to be Called by (or what Click Name someone else wants to Lump you into).

If the Wire Temperature Exceeds a given Temperature, you start to Produce Large Amounts of Toxins. And if you do Not Exceed this Temperature, then the Amount of Toxins is Very Low as compared to Smoking a Cigarette.

It really isn't all that Complex. And it Isn't anything New.

Yup figured this out years ago.

It just amounts to keeping your wick wet enough to handle the power level applied. How a person chooses to do that doesn't matter.

 

[SlickWilly]

Looking for graphs for coil temps on a non-TC device is futile, air flow across the coils cools the coil effects the temperature curve. You could make a graph using a machine set to use a certain air flow for a certain amount of time but we aren't machines and we all vape differently, heck we don't take the exact pull each time.

 

[beckdg]

Yes, but when I am making a linguini with clam sauce I am not worried about hitting 470F.

What temp is acrolein produced at?

Because maybe you should be.

You'll produce a lot more with a pan full than you would with a drop of juice.

I dont trust my tastebuds enough to know the difference between 450 and 470.

I trust mine enough to distinguish acrid and burnt.

As Kurt said, and I agree... you'll taste it.

Tapatyped

 

[Bonskibon]

Trying to, however all this going back and forth about personal interpretation/s of this report is just too confusing and overwhelming . . . As a "Tootle Puffer" who is a dual user and still struggling to become a full time vapor, besides having difficulty dealing with all all the information about what type of equipment is best to use (Cig-a-likes/Mods/Mech/TC, Internal/Replaceable Batteries; Tanks, coils, build your own coils - SS, Nickel, etc.) in this discussion . . . Right now, it is back to square one - since . . .

Hang in there... it's a lot of information that has been around for a while and now being interpreted and what it means for us vapers. I don't get it all either, but I know we will figure it out.

 

[englishmick]

If actually measuring coil temp under various real world circumstances was easy we wouldn't have the current estimation methods in use and would have much better information by now. At one time Innokin claimed they were going to have such a technology but I haven't seen it.

I'm thinking that with coil temp it might be hard to define what you are measuring. Center of the wire, outer surface of the wire, temp of the juice at the wire surface, temp of juice 1mm from the wire, influence of hotspots, a small hotspot can give you a nasty vape. I guess the boundary layer between wire and juice is where the action takes place. What does a TC mod measure?

A coil can get red hot pretty fast if it's completely dry. I imagine a coil would struggle to build up heat if it was just submerged in a vat of juice. Vaping is somewhere in between.

The components are so small that direct measurement would presumably be hard.

 

[zoiDman]

Speaking of not complex.

Tapatyped

So a Smaller Diameter Wire has to Run at a Hotter Temperature than a Larger Diameter Wire.

Regardless of if the Smaller Diameter Wire is Run at a Lower Voltage, with Better Wicking, and with More Airflow.

Sounds like that One Size Fits All belief thinking I mentioned Earlier.

 

[beckdg]

the biggest takeaway is thinner wire higher gauge has a smaller more volatile margin for temp. Because the wire heats up so quick under far less power it is too easy to create these temps without noticing because the surface area is also reduced . Can't just say wire is wire

Exactly!!!

And if you choke the airflow and the wicking as in a top coil ce4, it only exacerbates the issue.

Tapatyped

 

[mikepetro]

What temp is acrolein produced at?

Because maybe you should be.

You'll produce a lot more with a pan full than you would with a drop of juice.

I trust mine enough to distinguish acrid and burnt.

As Kurt said, and I agree... you'll taste it.

Tapatyped

Dont know when clams start producing carcinogens, this data only told us about pg and vg.

I can turn up my Mod to 500 and it doesnt taste acrid burnt. So I suspect the acrid/burnt thing may only be after you reach an extreme.

 

[zoiDman]

Yup figured this out years ago.

It just amounts to keeping your wick wet enough to handle the power level applied. How a person chooses to do that doesn't matter.

Yeah... I Don't Know why it is Even has to be Explained to some people?

 

[beckdg]

Dont know when clams start producing carcinogens, this data only told us about pg and vg.

I can turn up my to 500 and it doesnt taste acrid burnt. So I suspect the acrid/burnt thing may only be after you reach an extreme.

Yeah, I'm not sure, either.

Tapatyped