New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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I mean flash as in "vaporized" by the action of energy (in the case of vaping, it uses heat) causing the molecules to receive enough energy to separate from the other molecule and becoming an aerosol.
Aerosol - Wikipedia
Anyways, the point of it ... if you take anyone's vapor, re-condense it and test it and find that bad stuff, then we have an issue, but from everything I've seen and read about, this isn't the case. It's only under stress environment (and not real world) that they get such results.
Well, unless someone in here has a full laboratory that's state-of-the-art, I don't think that you'll get any different answers that what's been said to death.
And honestly, I've been very surprised if they did find anything different.... no lab has been able to in all these witch hunting years.
Basically, the liquid reaches it's aerosol state long before it reaches any dangerous levels.... that's the simplest I can say it.
If it did reach those break down range of temperature, we'd taste it, many would be sick already, and it would be easy to prove. Just collecting the exhale vapour would show traces, and there's nothing yet to be found.
Well.. in my post I have...
My numerous mentions of conversion to aerosol, of "other substances" lowering the temp required, energy and mass, etc. it's all relative to enthalpy of vaporization.
Heck.. if people are so worried about heat as the "energy" to convert to aerosol, they should look into building vaping devices that uses "Cool Mist Impeller Humidifier" technology principles or such.
I am hearing folks with lots of theories, prove some of them beyond just theory.
I am "proving" that coils can and do reach these temperatures inside of real attys under normal use.
I am "proving" that coils can and do reach these temperatures inside of real attys under normal use.
So... just to be Clear.
There is No Leidenfrost Effect when a Liquid comes in contact with a Heated Source and the Heated Source does not have a Significantly Higher Temperature than the Boiling Point of the Liquid.
Right?
There is No Leidenfrost Effect when a Liquid comes in contact with a Heated Source and the Heated Source does not have a Significantly Higher Temperature than the Boiling Point of the Liquid.
Right?
Yeah... That what I have read also.
So if a coil wire Never reaches a Significantly Higher Temperature than the Boiling Point of say VG, No Leidenfrost Effect for the VG.
Yep... Been there, Done That. No Dancing Drops.
Also found that a Saturated Wad of Cotton doesn't like to do the Leidenfrost Shuffle as much as a Drop of Pure Liquid.
That doesn't mean that the liquid is reaching the same temperature as the coil before turning into vapor.
Look at the evidence - no studies performed on actual vaping equipment have found high levels of formaldehyde (except for the one where we know it was used way outside normal parameters).
Why not?
*sigh*..
no... it only starts with contact as the coil heats up, then the water and PG content kicks the Leidenfrost effect in gear...and between this and just the radiation of the heat energy creates the Leidenfrost effect. The point of how vaping even works at all is because it uses these principles of physics, and not "theories".
And before you mention "what about the crusting/gunking" of the coil/wick... well. 1) most people notice the change in flavour, and 2) the ramp up gets longer as it needs to heat this "insulator" to a range that the vaporizing will happen.
If anything, the big question about "bad" stuff is answered here.... has anyone tested the gunk that everyone gets?
I would bet that they have, extensively..... and if there was any proof of cancer given chemical goodness it this "burnt gunk", they'd have already have a parade over it.
That should provide you with the answer you're looking for.
Since we are Talking Physics, and Not Theory, perhaps you can Quantify this with some Numbers? How Hot does the Coil need to be for this Leidenfrost Effect to occur for a given e-Liquid?
And does a Substrate like Cotton interfere in the Leidenfrost Effect?
The Leidenfrost Effect is a red herring. To understand the real action that is producing vapor below the boiling point dig into the difference between vaporization by boiling Vs evaporation. Heat the liquid, add a relatively large supply of moving air, and you get a condition that aids in rapid evaporation. Evaporative cooling keeps the remining liquid in the wick below the boiling point. Liquid to Gas Phase Transition It's why low flow DL atties might be heating liquids to much higher temperatures at much lower power, even if the power is at the correct proportion to coil mass. Moving and unsaturated air makes a very big difference.
That said, I vape unflavored VG plus nicotine and zero nicotine flavors. A couple weeks after this thread was started I did a full day of just unflavored. I never tasted any adlehydes, but towards the end of the day I took a whiff of my drip tip following a hit and there was a hint of that signature acrid smell. I've been experimenting with adding distilled water the past two weeks. 1% to 2% is still pretty good, but at 3% or higher the vape quality plummets.
If folks are wondering what aldehydes smell like, it's the smell after a coil gets cooked when a mod pocket/auto fires.
That said, I vape unflavored VG plus nicotine and zero nicotine flavors. A couple weeks after this thread was started I did a full day of just unflavored. I never tasted any adlehydes, but towards the end of the day I took a whiff of my drip tip following a hit and there was a hint of that signature acrid smell. I've been experimenting with adding distilled water the past two weeks. 1% to 2% is still pretty good, but at 3% or higher the vape quality plummets.
If folks are wondering what aldehydes smell like, it's the smell after a coil gets cooked when a mod pocket/auto fires.
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Yes I concur, if anyone is tired of the discussion they have the easy option to simply ignore it, otherwise let those still interested continue.
I don't have the lab to start doing detailed work, nor do I feel like baking my brains right now.. numbers are doable, but I just don't have it in me to be honest, not after 4 hours of sleep thanks to a cold that kept me coughing all night..
But to give you something to either ponder or try to rip apart without understanding it:
The Leiderfrost effect happens when a surface that is very hot creates a radiation field that provokes molecules to be in an agitated state, are basically pushed back from absorbing the heat energy that causes the molecules of the liquid to react violently enough to because an aerosol..
The "numbers" can differ a bit due to circumstances as I've already stated, how much cooling, the airflow, the wicking, etc.... plus the actual mass of the liquid, the amount being wicked, etc.
And while Verb (that just posted) doesn't think that it's relevant and adheres to the basic of "vaporization by boiling Vs evaporation", it's actually very linked to the Leidenfrost effect as it is what's responsible for the "evaporation" in the first place. AKA, the "very small field" of heat radiation provides the energy to launch the molecules into an aerosol, and the air displacement moves it fast enough that it never "boils".
So his post is actually correct, but misses the "why" it does it, and it's simply that energy being transfered by the effect.
So to make a Long Story short, No Numbers.
And all we know is that the Coil Wire has to be Significantly Hotter than the Boiling Point of the Liquid for the Leidenfrost Effect.
If a Leidenfrost Effect is going to occur in the first place.
So for a High VG e-Liquid, with a Boiling Point of say above 460F, you would need a Coil to be at least Hotter (forgetting about the Significant for a Moment) than 460F.
But if a TC Mod was set for 450F, or if a VW Mod was used and the Coil Wire Reached 450F, then wouldn't we be in the "Nasty Forming Zone" and there would be No Leidenfrost Effect?
And for a 100% VG e-Liquid, with No Water added, wouldn't the Temperature have to be Over 540F or so for the Leidenfrost Effect to kick in?
And wouldn't a 540F be in "Nasty Forming Central" ?
BTW - If the Significant Hotter Temperature is say 50F Plus, doesn't this Exacerbate the situation of Higher Temperature needed to the Leidenfrost Effect to occur? And perhaps push Coil Temps into a Zone where No Leidenfrost Effect is happening? But Nasties are Freely Forming?
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