New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Layzee Vaper]

Thanks Layzee One....

Not all DNAs are that accurate, there are a lot of factors involved to make them accurate, (see this post for more info), but even an inaccurate one is usually better than no TC, and you can tweak things to get the accuracy in most cases.

What was you temp on that rig with usable airflow?

Yes, the boiling Point of your liquid is HUGE.

Did you start with a fresh bat for each test? I ask because a progressive drop of voltage in a mech "could" have resulted in lower temps as well, potentially skewing things.

Yes, TC sure makes the whole temp thing a LOT easier to manage.

Yes I started with a fresh battery, I was looking to find out what the maximum temp was. The temp does drop away over a full battery charge, but with my 1.75 ish ohm coil its not significant over a few hits. I guess someone running a low ohm set up would notice the temperature dropping off much more sharply.

Usable airflow is difficult to quantify. I was using a origin 16 on the middle airflow setting for single coil. The thermal couple through the opposite hole with some sealant to keep the airflow coming over the coil. I was getting roughly 80 to 100f drop in temperature compared to firing the coil with no airflow. Being a mech its not as stable as a VV or VW device would be.... it varies a bit from hit to hit. I don't have data capture kit so it was based on watching the temperature rise on my digital thermometer (although it is a calibrated instrument)

On a fresh battery with my usual juice I was borderline temp wise. especially as I tend to take multiple three or four second hits the 25/75 mix I was well under 400f even taking loads of hits one after the other.

I doubt my tests will prove useful for anyone else, as most mech users don't tend to tootle! I doubt many people are using the type of coils I run with VV/VW devices either.

The part about the juice ratio changing making a difference to the coil temps might prove useful to some though.

If I was not so clumsy that dropping my mod is a regular occurrence, and I used a tank not a squonker I would probably be looking to buy a TC mod. Not sure how long the mod would last before I dropped it or a leak onto the PCB caused problems. So I think I will stick with my current rig using the 25/75 mix for now.

At least I know I am in the lower part of the temp range....

 

[mikepetro]

Kudos ^^^^^^

 

[Burnie]

How many people run VV anymore?

I suspect there are a significant number of vapers using VV with a variety of toppers

There are more of us out here than you would think that still mostly use VV. Just look at all the ProVari's there are out there that are VV. I have some VW and TC devices, but they are not my daily devices, just some toys.

 

[mikepetro]

Yes I started with a fresh battery, I was looking to find out what the maximum temp was. The temp does drop away over a full battery charge, but with my 1.75 ish ohm coil its not significant over a few hits. I guess someone running a low ohm set up would notice the temperature dropping off much more sharply.

Usable airflow is difficult to quantify. I was using a origin 16 on the middle airflow setting for single coil. The thermal couple through the opposite hole with some sealant to keep the airflow coming over the coil. I was getting roughly 80 to 100f drop in temperature compared to firing the coil with no airflow. Being a mech its not as stable as a VV or VW device would be.... it varies a bit from hit to hit. I don't have data capture kit so it was based on watching the temperature rise on my digital thermometer (although it is a calibrated instrument)

On a fresh battery with my usual juice I was borderline temp wise. especially as I tend to take multiple three or four second hits the 25/75 mix I was well under 400f even taking loads of hits one after the other.

I doubt my tests will prove useful for anyone else, as most mech users don't tend to tootle! I doubt many people are using the type of coils I run with VV/VW devices either.

The part about the juice ratio changing making a difference to the coil temps might prove useful to some though.

If I was not so clumsy that dropping my mod is a regular occurrence, and I used a tank not a squonker I would probably be looking to buy a TC mod. Not sure how long the mod would last before I dropped it or a leak onto the PCB caused problems. So I think I will stick with my current rig using the 25/75 mix for now.

At least I know I am in the lower part of the temp range....

If you are ever bored, it would be interesting to see your results over the life of a battery.
You know something like list the coil specs then
Bat Voltage/Temp measured.

Obviously the hottest zone will be the fresh bat, but it would be an interesting chart to see.

 

[mikepetro]

There are more of us out here than you would think that still mostly use VV. Just look at all the ProVari's there are out there that are VV. I have some VW and TC devices, but they are not my daily devices, just some toys.

I will post the results from the 440BB testing. It will be interesting, he is sending a Provari for the tests.

 

[mikepetro]

There are more of us out here than you would think that still mostly use VV. Just look at all the ProVari's there are out there that are VV. I have some VW and TC devices, but they are not my daily devices, just some toys.

Oh, and just for the record, no judgement from my corner.

To each their own vape!!!

Although I do give squonkers a hard time, just for fun.

 

[mikepetro]

@GeorgeS @Burnie - others,

440BB is letting me borrow a Provari for a while, so I am open to other candidates for VV testing.

I would need:

• The atty
• Minimum of 3 factory heads of the same resistance
• Post it in the thread first so I can look it up to see if it is suitable for probing
• If you want the atty returned you need to send me $7.15 to cover return shipping.
• Understand that the possibility exists that I could destroy your atty in the process, if so - no liability will be accepted by me.
• I will use a 50/50 unflavored juice for all testing

Limited time offer, I am not volunteering to test every device out there, but I am willing to do a few to get an idea of what the landscape is like. I would suggest varied types, vs just different flavors of something I already tested. 440BB is sending a VV Nova 2.5

 

[Burnie]

Although I do give squonkers a hard time, just for fun.

Got several of those also...

 

[mikepetro]

Damn bottom feeders..........

 

[awsum140]

Hope you're not opening a can of unending worms there, Mike.

 

[Burnie]

Damn bottom feeders.......... View attachment 657453

 

[mikepetro]

Hope you're not opening a can of unending worms there, Mike.

No, I only have use of the Provari for about a month, and I go out of town every other weekend, so there is a limited time window to how much I can take on.

 

[GeorgeS]

The Subtank-mini is idenitcal construction to the Subtank-nano I tested last weekend, so I am confident I can get the sensor in it. The Aspire Nautilus, I dont know, maybe, I would need to play with one.

No clue what "commercial e-liquid" juices were used so I cant replicate that.

I dont own a VV mode so I cant replicate that. How many people run VV anymore?

The question I have, is even if I could replicate the test environment, whats the value of me testing these. Yes I could correlate temps to a 2 year old study, but if nobody uses that gear anymore, what good does it do?

The "disconnect" if there is one is that we don't know the temperatures of the coils used in the 5-tank test so have no idea if the temperatures are similar/same as what you were seeing or lower. We do know that the Nautilus and Subtank-Mini were used with coils and at power settings that did not give off nasty gasses.

We just don't know what temperatures they were operated at.

Maybe, just maybe if we can correlate the temperatures that might of been used in the study it might offer us insights to how other devices might function.

PM me an address and I'll collect together a Subtank-Mini kit with a handfull of the same type of coils used in the study and send them to you.

 

[mikepetro]

BTW, I am only taking on tanks.

No drippers or squonkers. They add the variable of dripping technique, which I dont claim to posses in terms of repeatability.

(damn squonkers)

 

[Robino1]

And they say that vapers can't figure things out on our own

I say kudos to you, Mike. It's vapers like you and Mooch and MANY others that are willing to take on issues to get to the bottom of things.

Thank you for what you are attempting to do.

At least it is a vaper that Knows that there are different ways and devices that we all use. Not a blanket statement thrown over all of us, when we all vape differently with different devices; power sources, delivery systems and coils.

And then (warning: monkey wrench) we also have the type of wick we are using. Does the wick material do anything to change the whole scenario?

 

[mikepetro]

The "disconnect" if there is one is that we don't know the temperatures of the coils used in the 5-tank test so have no idea if the temperatures are similar/same as what you were seeing or lower. We do know that the Nautilus and Subtank-Mini were used with coils and at power settings that did not give off nasty gasses.

We just don't know what temperatures they were operated at.

Maybe, just maybe if we can correlate the temperatures that might of been used in the study it might offer us insights to how other devices might function.

PM me an address and I'll collect together a Subtank-Mini kit with a handfull of the same type of coils used in the study and send them to you.

What resistance are those?

 

[mikepetro]

And they say that vapers can't figure things out on our own

I say kudos to you, Mike. It's vapers like you and Mooch and MANY others that are willing to take on issues to get to the bottom of things.

Thank you for what you are attempting to do.

At least it is a vaper that Knows that there are different ways and devices that we all use. Not a blanket statement thrown over all of us, when we all vape differently with different devices; power sources, delivery systems and coils.

And then (warning: monkey wrench) we also have the type of wick we are using. Does the wick material do anything to change the whole scenario?

I am sure wicks do, wicks that work better and carry juice better are bound to keep the coil saturated better. This can equate to more vapor volume at a lower temp. The last thing you want is to let your coil starve for juice, as that will definitely cause an increase in temp on a non-TC mod..

However, the load you are putting on it makes a difference too. If you only need a "little" for your puff then wicking is not as critical. If you have a high load then wicking can be critical.

I touched on this in an old blog post.

I take heavy volume hits (as opposed to tootle), so I need very efficient wicking. I have tried silica, Ekowool (first ECF co-op I hosted), SS Mesh, ceramic, bamboo, ramie, hemp, cotton, and my favorite for the last year or so is Rayon.

 

[mikepetro]

I know you have some V2 Aromamizers...Do you have any 24ga SS430?

I'm running dual 3.5mm 24ga SS430 with 6/5 wraps in my Aromamizers with Sally's rayon.
The Boxer it's running on reads .143Ω when I lock resistance at room temp (68-69F).
The vape is thick & flavorful enough for me @ 410F with 45j on my sx350j Boxer mods.
87% VG, 10% PG-based flavoring, 3% saline, 3mg/ml (VG) nicotine
I'd guess 40W-45W would equal the vape.

I've been using 50W when I hike. I use VW when I hike because temp varies.
I'd be interested in knowing what the coil temp is at 40W-50W in my setup.

If you have 24g SS430 and you're taking requests...

I quit using twisted and run 24ga SS430 in all my tanks now.
I could send you some for testing if you like. PM if so.
I also have some UNK 28g & CW 27g that I'll probably never use.
Let me know if it'd help.

OK, so I made a pair of coils out of that bailing wire!

Dude.... this was/is a challenging build!!!
The wire was easy enough to work with, but the coil was so fat I didnt think it was going to clear the chimney. And the wick is so fat the tails didnt tuck in the juice cups as loose as I would like.

I am going to vape it a while before I try to stick the probe in it. Oh, and it hits like a mule!

Resistance is dead on the money.

I set it to 470f, and a max of 45w and it never gets above 440f, and this is with 6-7 sec hits.

With preheat on at 75w:

With preheat off, about the same thing, just a longer ramp time:

 

[Pamawoman]

It's a Vision Vivi Nova 2.5, polycarbonate tube. As it doesn't depend on vacuum, I was thinking that a pinhole through the side of the tank, aligned with where the coil sits in the head, may allow a skinny thermocouple to pass through horizontally to reach the coil while remaining vapable. Just a theory though!

You are not alone. I use my Vivi Novas everyday. Isn't it funny how quickly things become obsolete in the vape world.

 

[Pamawoman]

If you want I have probably a 100 Iclear 16's, 16B's, and 30's. If you want to try any of those. I was stocking up with them but now I am going to slowly eliminate them in favor of bottom coils. I will send them if you want but it would probably be useless. Dry hits are a regular happening with them.