New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[zoiDman]

Its got a built in calibration. As for a baseline validation, I havent figured that out yet. The upper range is 5ppm so 37% would be WAAAAY over-limit. Anyway, only had one night to play with this thing so far, and most of that was spent figuring out the rig,

Yeah... I saw you can buy Certified Formaldehyde Gas in various PPM's. But I imagine that having a 5' tank wouldn't be very practice. LOL.

 

[Semiretired]

Havent figured it out yet, but residue stays in there somewhere (maybe on the fan blades?). A project for another day...

I don't know if this will help, but this is what one of the manuals said

Error Display Codes
Temperature or humidity sensor is damaged or sensor communication error
ERR-2:
HCHO, Temperature, or humidity readings are out of range
If the sensor is subjected to a high concentration of HCHO or other sensitive chemicals listed inthe Sensor Cross Sensitivity table, it will read ERR2.
Let the sensor run for a few hours in clean air and the meter will read normal again.

 

[mikepetro]

I don't know if this will help, but this is what one of the manuals said

Error Display Codes
Temperature or humidity sensor is damaged or sensor communication error
ERR-2:
HCHO, Temperature, or humidity readings are out of range
If the sensor is subjected to a high concentration of HCHO or other sensitive chemicals listed inthe Sensor Cross Sensitivity table, it will read ERR2.
Let the sensor run for a few hours in clean air and the meter will read normal again.

Where did you find this particular manual? It is more detailed than the one that came with my meter.

All mine says about ER2 is this.

 

[Semiretired]

Where did you find this particular manual? It is more detailed than the one that came with my meter.

All mine says about ER2 is this.

It is not really that detailed, but here it is:

http://www.extech.com/resources/FM200_UM-en.pdf

 

[Semiretired]

Look, I am going to admit up front. I do not understand the tech behind what you are trying to do, but I did read quite a bit last night and found other articles that talked about testing with these type of testers and some discussed the difficulties they encountered.

From what I deduced - your difficulty is going to be with the vapor itself overpowering the meter (humidity) and that it takes time to clear itself between tests.

 

[mikepetro]

Look, I am going to admit up front. I do not understand the tech behind what you are trying to do, but I did read quite a bit last night and found other articles that talked about testing with these type of testers and some discussed the difficulties they encountered.

From what I deduced - your difficulty is going to be with the vapor itself overpowering the meter (humidity) and that it takes time to clear itself between tests.

This wasnt in my printed manual either:

ETA: looks like my cleaning with IPA might have been part of the problem I encountered.

 

[mikepetro]

Look, I am going to admit up front. I do not understand the tech behind what you are trying to do, but I did read quite a bit last night and found other articles that talked about testing with these type of testers and some discussed the difficulties they encountered.

From what I deduced - your difficulty is going to be with the vapor itself overpowering the meter (humidity) and that it takes time to clear itself between tests.

Any links you can pass on? Would love to see how others overcame the various issues.

 

[Semiretired]

Any links you can pass on? Would love to see how others overcame the various issues.

I tried to trace my paths, but I used so many variations of terms I was unable to find the specific ones that I remembered. I will look again later.

 

[Semiretired]

Sorry, I tried, but was unable to find the links with lab discussions.

I do remember that they were using bubbling, spare tubes and filters of some kind. Beyond that - sorry I really can't be much help...

 

[mikepetro]

Sorry, I tried, but was unable to find the links with lab discussions.

I do remember that they were using bubbling, spare tubes and filters of some kind. Beyond that - sorry I really can't be much help...

Thanks for trying.

Bubblers and spare tubes sound a lot like "impingers", which are then run through a filter, then analyzed with something like HPLC. This method is big bucks, much more than we have at our disposal in this thread. Like 20-50 times more cost. There is an out fit in NC that does it for hundreds of $ per single test.

This device is the poor mans route. It wont yield any results worthy of be published by the NEMJ but we are hoping it can answer some basic questions.

 

[mikepetro]

I am beginning to seriously question my choice of meter. I am not giving up by any means but I wish I would have found the information below before I bought this model.

Extech Formaldehyde (CH2O and HCHO) Meter Review

DIY Formaldehyde Testing, Indoor Air Quality

http://www.meterindco.com.tw/
http://www.meterindco.com.tw/js/upf...Formaldehyde meter_ Portable remote probe.pdf


Public Lab: DIY Formaldehyde Test Kit

 

[mikepetro]

Public Lab: DIY Formaldehyde Test Kit

The vial method described in this test is within my skillset but it requires a flowrate of 200 ml per minute running for 20 minutes. If we say a puff is 55ml then it would require a minimum of 72 puffs collected in a chamber to pump out of. Doesnt sound very practical.

 

[mikepetro]

This sounds like a viable option. Though it requires a 100ml sample vs a 55ml puff. I could easily do the math to convert, but the difference in the puff volume/length would make it hard to compare to other published studies.

RAE Systems Piston Hand Pump Kit 010-0001-000 | PK Safety
RAE Systems Formaldehyde 0.1 - 5 ppmv Tubes 10-121-05 (10/Box) | PK Safety

 

[Eskie]

This sounds like a viable option. Though it requires a 100ml sample vs a 55ml puff. I could easily do the math to convert, but the difference in the puff volume/length would make it hard to compare to other published studies.

RAE Systems Piston Hand Pump Kit 010-0001-000 | PK Safety
RAE Systems Formaldehyde 0.1 - 5 ppmv Tubes 10-121-05 (10/Box) | PK Safety

In the text in the first link said they have both a 50 ml and 100 ml version of the hand pump. Still, I don't know if those sample tubes will provide accuracy and cover the range needed for this testing.

 

[mikepetro]

Scratch the vial methods.

I called the manufacturers of two leading brands, RAE and Drager, and asked speak with their Application Engineers. Even though they have quantitative marking on the vials, they dont stand behind them. According to their Application Engineers, these vials are designed to be a simple go/no-go indicator. Is there formaldehyde present or not. The typical usage is intended to be spot checks, and if it shows positive an air sample is taken and sent off to a lab.

 

[mikepetro]

In the text in the first link said they have both a 50 ml and 100 ml version of the hand pump. Still, I don't know if those sample tubes will provide accuracy and cover the range needed for this testing.

The formaldehyde vials require the 100ml pump. It depends on what chemical you are testing for, some vials require 50ml, some require 100ml. They make about 30 different tests vials for different things.

 

[mikepetro]

Bored, here is some light reading:

Formaldehyde Gas Sensors: A Review

 

[awsum140]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[mikepetro]

Well, looks like I will make the best of what I have.

I have searched and called, and read documentation until my brain hurts. There is just no way around it, you get what you pay for, and if you want high accuracy you are going to have spend big bucks. Heck, even the Formaldehyde Standards (2ppm test gas) cost more than this meter did.

I have several ideas though on how to get the best out of this meter. I just need time to play.

• For one thing I now know I cant use alcohol for cleaning, it introduces a 50% Cross Sensitivity. I.e. dont do that again.
• I have a tank of nitrogen gas, I use it to purge sensitive teas before heat sealing them for storage. It may well be beneficial to purge the test system prior to testing. Cross Sensitivity isnt an issue with nitrogen from what I can tell.
• Experiment with "warming" up the meter for longer periods of time before using it.
• Maybe try a 5.5ml puff sample in a 500ml volume and extrapolate the results.
  
• Shorten tubing and run without the fan.

And I am continuing to ponder. If I can get something repeatable then I can expand on that.

 

[Semiretired]

And I am continuing to ponder. If I can get something repeatable then I can expand on that.

Sounds like you are going to have fun with it...