I Can't Imagine that it would be the same.
The First thing that comes to mind is the Temperature of a Gas Flame in Direct Contact with the underside of your favorite Sauce Pan verse the Temperature of a Capable Coil stuffed with saturated cotton.
New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
- Thread starter mikepetro
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I Can't Imagine that it would be the same.
The First thing that comes to mind is the Temperature of a Gas Flame in Direct Contact with the underside of your favorite Sauce Pan verse the Temperature of a Capable Coil stuffed with saturated cotton.
Agreed, but...
Think of the old airplane model glue. Putting together a model didnt harm you, but squeeze that glue into a baggie and..... Its all about concentration. I dont know that an atty is more concentrated, but it wouldnt shock me.
Yeah, I think Paracelsus put it best...
Alle Dinge sind Gift, und nichts ist ohne Gift, allein die Dosis macht dass ein Ding kein Gift ist.
My Theory, not having Analytical Testing Equipment at my deposal, is If there were Significant Expose amounts of Metals being produced under Normal vaping conditions, then there would have been a Lot of Peer Reviewed Studies reporting/confirming it.
I mean, didn't Slantz and his Rag-Tag Crew of e-Cigarette Bashers try to say this? And wasn't it Completely Debunk by actual Researchers?
Or am I thinking of something Else that Slantz wrote that was Debunked? There has been so Many.
OK, what I wanted was just a simple answer to simple question. Will vaping with Titanium wire (or with any other wire for that matter) kill me faster than smoking 1 and a half of pack a cigarettes a day? And now we are guessing if it is safer to inhale fumes from cooking pans or from coils and what is different how... And now I want to burn a ... and smoke it.
Poslano z mojega SM-G955F z uporabo Tapatalk
Poslano z mojega SM-G955F z uporabo Tapatalk
If you are using titanium in TC mode and not dry burning it like you shouldn't I find it VERY HARD to believe that that is MORE HARMFUL than 1.5 p/pd of cigarettes. People still vape titanium some folks just like it. As long as you are using the "approved" method, I see no reason to even CONSIDER that smoking cigarettes is better for you.
We've got a lot of speculative scientists on this thread, and they may/may not be comfortable answering that question conclusively, because the answer isn't CONCLUSIVE in the sense that it has been studied for years, under variant conditions and whatnot.
Forget about the frying pans and etc. Sorry to bring them up (if I did it first, I may have) but the bottom line is most scare tactics concerning vaping and wires are just that, or less black-and-white, "We don't know for certain, but things look okay from this viewpoint."
I really think you should just pay attention to your body at this point, there is NO HARD data at ALL showing conclusively that titanium, when used correctly, is harmful. If there WERE, there would be far more alarm about it/warnings/etc. listed on ECF.
What I do know with CERTAINLY is that cigarettes will kill you. The fact is, like everything in vaping, we are oddly risk AVERSIVE about what may be very minor issues (they certainly aren't major enough to make the Anti-news) w/r/t vape, while we happily inhaled UNKNOWN countless chemicals while sucking on a cigarette. This is new technology, but there have been 0 patients to date (that I know of) who are currently hospitalized for vaping titanium in TC mode. Long term data and further study still awaits. But that will likely make vaping SAFER, we already know it is entirely safer than cigarettes and how much still awaits us.
But, do you want a 100% guarantee that cigarettes are harmful, or a (studied to date) sense that vaping may not be safe under ALL conditions, but certainly okay under MANY, and that includes titanium (when used correctly).
TL
R-- Vaping titanium wire correctly is safer than smoking 1.5 pp/d of cigarettes.
Anna
We've got a lot of speculative scientists on this thread, and they may/may not be comfortable answering that question conclusively, because the answer isn't CONCLUSIVE in the sense that it has been studied for years, under variant conditions and whatnot.
Forget about the frying pans and etc. Sorry to bring them up (if I did it first, I may have) but the bottom line is most scare tactics concerning vaping and wires are just that, or less black-and-white, "We don't know for certain, but things look okay from this viewpoint."
I really think you should just pay attention to your body at this point, there is NO HARD data at ALL showing conclusively that titanium, when used correctly, is harmful. If there WERE, there would be far more alarm about it/warnings/etc. listed on ECF.
What I do know with CERTAINLY is that cigarettes will kill you. The fact is, like everything in vaping, we are oddly risk AVERSIVE about what may be very minor issues (they certainly aren't major enough to make the Anti-news) w/r/t vape, while we happily inhaled UNKNOWN countless chemicals while sucking on a cigarette. This is new technology, but there have been 0 patients to date (that I know of) who are currently hospitalized for vaping titanium in TC mode. Long term data and further study still awaits. But that will likely make vaping SAFER, we already know it is entirely safer than cigarettes and how much still awaits us.
But, do you want a 100% guarantee that cigarettes are harmful, or a (studied to date) sense that vaping may not be safe under ALL conditions, but certainly okay under MANY, and that includes titanium (when used correctly).
TL
R-- Vaping titanium wire correctly is safer than smoking 1.5 pp/d of cigarettes. Anna
That's what I hate about vaping - insufficient data. We as vapers are claiming that vaping is 95% less harmful than smoking but on the other hand we can't answer to a simple question - will vaping with titanium wire kill me faster than smoking tobacco cigarettes? So, we are just taking chances and believe what we want to believe. I know I will get a warning for an "inappropriate content" and "alarming posts" but that is just how I see it. I am an ex-smoker and I still have a mindset of a smoker and there are still times when I want to switch back to smoking. Because of this uncertainty. I am extremely volatile on that matter. My logic tells me that coil is of too small size to cause a major harm but then somebody other says that coil in atty can be quite harmful despite its size because concentration of metal fumes is high... And I as an ex-smoker who wants to live healthier life am confused... And "what if" is there again...
Poslano z mojega SM-G955F z uporabo Tapatalk
With vaping, there are few "simple" answers. It really is a complex process with very little trustworthy science published.
Thank you Anna. You are probably right but I am quite anxious (it's just my personality) in times like that...If you are using titanium in TC mode and not dry burning it like you shouldn't I find it VERY HARD to believe that that is MORE HARMFUL than 1.5 p/pd of cigarettes. People still vape titanium some folks just like it. As long as you are using the "approved" method, I see no reason to even CONSIDER that smoking cigarettes is better for you.
We've got a lot of speculative scientists on this thread, and they may/may not be comfortable answering that question conclusively, because the answer isn't CONCLUSIVE in the sense that it has been studied for years, under variant conditions and whatnot.
Forget about the frying pans and etc. Sorry to bring them up (if I did it first, I may have) but the bottom line is most scare tactics concerning vaping and wires are just that, or less black-and-white, "We don't know for certain, but things look okay from this viewpoint."
I really think you should just pay attention to your body at this point, there is NO HARD data at ALL showing conclusively that titanium, when used correctly, is harmful. If there WERE, there would be far more alarm about it/warnings/etc. listed on ECF.
What I do know with CERTAINLY is that cigarettes will kill you. The fact is, like everything in vaping, we are oddly risk AVERSIVE about what may be very minor issues (they certainly aren't major enough to make the Anti-news) w/r/t vape, while we happily inhaled UNKNOWN countless chemicals while sucking on a cigarette. This is new technology, but there have been 0 patients to date (that I know of) who are currently hospitalized for vaping titanium in TC mode. Long term data and further study still awaits. But that will likely make vaping SAFER, we already know it is entirely safer than cigarettes and how much still awaits us.
But, do you want a 100% guarantee that cigarettes are harmful, or a (studied to date) sense that vaping may not be safe under ALL conditions, but certainly okay under MANY, and that includes titanium (when used correctly).
TL
Anna
Poslano z mojega SM-G955F z uporabo Tapatalk
The ACTUAL statement made by the Royal College of Physicians, 11 St Andrews Place, Regent's Park, London NW1 4LE
"E-cigarettes and long-term harm - the possibility of some harm from long-term e-cigarette use cannot be dismissed due to inhalation of the ingredients other than nicotine, but is likely to be very small, and substantially smaller than that arising from tobacco smoking. With appropriate product standards to minimise exposure to the other ingredients, it should be possible to reduce risks of physical health still further. Although it is not possible to estimate the long-term health risks associated with e-cigarettes precisely, the available data suggest that they are unlikely to exceed 5% of those associated with smoked tobacco products, and may well be substantially lower than this figure."
We have to make many risk/benefit decisions everyday with respect to our health.
We decide to get in cars and planes despite the many risks, we eat food of unknown origin, we smear products all over our bodies plied with chemicals whose long term effects are also unknown...
I vape because it is probably about 95% less harmful than cigarettes knowing full well that it is not 100% harmless.
It took what, 50+ years for the dangers of smoking to become reliably documented, and people smoked for much longer than that. Vaping is only 10+ years old. It will be a while before definite answers are known.
So for now I trust my body, and my body clearly and plainly tells me that vaping is less harmful.
So for now I trust my body, and my body clearly and plainly tells me that vaping is less harmful.
I think of vaping as far less harmful than smoking. My own experience has been a marked health improvement from where I was six+ years ago when I smoked.
Even though I believe it's much healthier for me and with most moderate setups, there is always more to know. This thread is a perfect example of vapers gathering more information to make it even safer. I've adjusted my style a bit to further reduce risk. I may be vaping for the rest of my life and am confident that my long term health will be drastically better than if I smoked. I'll just keep abreast of the growing knowledge and adjust if needed.
There is some risk with anything added to the air we breathe, but depending on where you live it may not be much at all!
Even though I believe it's much healthier for me and with most moderate setups, there is always more to know. This thread is a perfect example of vapers gathering more information to make it even safer. I've adjusted my style a bit to further reduce risk. I may be vaping for the rest of my life and am confident that my long term health will be drastically better than if I smoked. I'll just keep abreast of the growing knowledge and adjust if needed.
There is some risk with anything added to the air we breathe, but depending on where you live it may not be much at all!
Well look, titanium has been used and studied enough for mod-makers to provide an actual TCR "value" for it, i.e. how quickly it heats up and cools down, and in order for that to happen, that means the wire has been "tested" to a certain extent in order to develop that "safe" value. It's KNOWN that you shouldn't dry burn it, so the TCR value established is surely taking into account the wire used and safe temperatures designed for it. I really, really doubt that if you stay safe with your titanium, bad things will happen. I have a TANK MADE of Ti, and have never once considered (it uses non-TC coils) that it is "leeching" stuff into my vape. Granted, it's not the coil, so it isn't getting AS HOT, but if it's known that at a certain TEMP Ti becomes dangerous and you are confident in your TC vaping, you really don't have a lot to worry about. TC, by definition should stop that coil from reaching the kind of temps you need to be worried about.
Since starting vaping I have been bitten (on the face) by a brown recluse, encountered countless oral surgeries that were horrific, and I'm still around (and my doc verified my lungs were in better shape than previously) I think the orders of magnitude of mistakes you would have to make to do you in by vaping are pretty much WAY HIGHER than what you have going on. You'd have to Deliberately take a TON of dry hits on purpose, kind of thing.... It's actually a lot harder to die than many people believe....
Sometimes I think the "my vape is harming me!" effect can be a reason to justify that return to cigarettes, but the fact remains that (outside of battery explosions) most vaping is Pretty Safe in the short term, and nothing so far indicates an alarming trend of "If you've vaped 8 years and one day, you will suddenly drop dead."
When I feel uncertain, I just look at horrible pics of things smoking has done to people, I'll pick a bit of uncertainty over THAT any day of the week....
Anna
Since starting vaping I have been bitten (on the face) by a brown recluse, encountered countless oral surgeries that were horrific, and I'm still around (and my doc verified my lungs were in better shape than previously) I think the orders of magnitude of mistakes you would have to make to do you in by vaping are pretty much WAY HIGHER than what you have going on. You'd have to Deliberately take a TON of dry hits on purpose, kind of thing.... It's actually a lot harder to die than many people believe....
Sometimes I think the "my vape is harming me!" effect can be a reason to justify that return to cigarettes, but the fact remains that (outside of battery explosions) most vaping is Pretty Safe in the short term, and nothing so far indicates an alarming trend of "If you've vaped 8 years and one day, you will suddenly drop dead."
When I feel uncertain, I just look at horrible pics of things smoking has done to people, I'll pick a bit of uncertainty over THAT any day of the week....
Anna
Also note this statement from the University of Cambridge Cancer Institute:
"We also know that different users use different devices and liquids. So it could be that some are safer or more harmful than others. And people also use the devices in different ways. So further work needs to be done to understand these differences, so that each vaper is using their device as safely as possible."
What we have been talking about in this thread has been nuances of vaping that can potentially make it even safer. To take any of this thread to mean that vaping is more harmful than smoking would be misreading\misunderstanding it horribly.
"We also know that different users use different devices and liquids. So it could be that some are safer or more harmful than others. And people also use the devices in different ways. So further work needs to be done to understand these differences, so that each vaper is using their device as safely as possible."
What we have been talking about in this thread has been nuances of vaping that can potentially make it even safer. To take any of this thread to mean that vaping is more harmful than smoking would be misreading\misunderstanding it horribly.
You really have to make Your Own Choices.
Because if you Allow others to make them for You, there will ALWAYS be someone that says something is Harmless. And there will ALWAYS be someone to say something is Harmful. And everything in between.
I Don't believe that e-Cigarette use is Completely without Harm. But I also do Not believe that whatever Harm exists is evenly distributed among All Vapers. (BTW - That's Kinda what this Thread is All About)
Because I Can't see how someone who Vapes 20 ~ 25ml/day of 30% Flavored e-Liquid at 550F is incurring the same potential Risk as some who Vapes 2 ~ 3ml/day of Unflavored at Very Low Wire Temps.
If you Really Think that Vaping (for the average Vaper) could be just as Harmful as Smoking 1 1/2 Packs a Day, then it Doesn't Matter if you Vape or if you Smoke.
There is No Dispute as to the Harms of Smoking. None. And in the 8+ Years that I have been Vaping, I have seen Nothing, from a reputable source, that implies that Vaping is as Bad as Smoking for an average vaper. In Fact, it has been the Direct Opposite.
So on One Hand you have Know Harm. And on the Other you have Reduced Harm with the Potential for some Harm in some situations.
I'll take the Reduced Harm and do what is Reasonable to place myself in a Lower Probability of incurring some Potential Harm.
But that's just Me.
Btw, I started this thread, and I preach safety. This is my standard build.
It is 28AWG Titanium wire....
It is 28AWG Titanium wire....
I Don't think the Process is all that Complex.
But what makes Definitive Statements about "e-Cigarettes" almost Impossible is the Exponential Amounts of Combinations and Permutations of all the Factors that goes into what comes out of a Drip Tip.
Talking in Generalities about Cigarettes is much Simpler. Because a Cigarette is Much Easier to define.
Talking about e-Cigarettes is Very Difficult. Because what Exactly is an e-Cigarette?
I still vape with titanium and stainless and nickel, depending on the mod and the atomizer. I'm old enough to have smoked cigarettes for 50 years before I found vaping. My health has improved overall, don't keep the wife awake with my snoring anymore, and my doctor has noted a marked improvement in my lungs. I'm sure there are hazards in vaping, but there are hazards just getting out of bed in the morning, or just staying in bed for that matter. If temperatures are controlled to prevent the levels that produce aldehydes, ~450F, they will certainly be far below the levels that produce harmful effects from vaporizing o over oxidizing the metal of the coil.
Sometimes I wonder about that pot comparison. Ever watch someone who really enjoys cooking and what they're cooking hover over the pot, head almost in it, breathing deeply and repeatedly as they're cooking? Lots of nicotine from the plants in that pot plus the fumes of the oils and heated metal. Might not be as high in concentration as an e-cig, but over a lifetime......
Incidentally, defining what a cigarette really is is a little problematic as well. So many chemicals are used when growing the tobacco, and even more added during the manufacturing, that saying a cigarette is dried tobacco in a paper tube is not very accurate at all. I personally feel that once BT figured out how to "augment" the effects of nicotine cigarettes became significantly more of a health hazard simply from all those chemicals. Is there a label on a pack that lists those ingredients? Don't hold your breath waiting for that one, either.
Sometimes I wonder about that pot comparison. Ever watch someone who really enjoys cooking and what they're cooking hover over the pot, head almost in it, breathing deeply and repeatedly as they're cooking? Lots of nicotine from the plants in that pot plus the fumes of the oils and heated metal. Might not be as high in concentration as an e-cig, but over a lifetime......
Incidentally, defining what a cigarette really is is a little problematic as well. So many chemicals are used when growing the tobacco, and even more added during the manufacturing, that saying a cigarette is dried tobacco in a paper tube is not very accurate at all. I personally feel that once BT figured out how to "augment" the effects of nicotine cigarettes became significantly more of a health hazard simply from all those chemicals. Is there a label on a pack that lists those ingredients? Don't hold your breath waiting for that one, either.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
