New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
- Thread starter mikepetro
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Now that the Titanium question has been answered as best we can, back to our regularly scheduled program. 
You are absolutely correct that the "dose per breath" would be different. However, when cooking you are also heating up "POUNDS" of metal instead of a few milligrams of it. For most substances the toxicity is usually measured by molecular weight (grams, milligrams, etc.). Since an average coil (at least mine) is probably only 500-750 mg of total weight, and SS316L is only 8-10.5% Nickle, that means that at max my coils contain a mere 55mg of Nickle. Even IF it were possible to vape 100% of that Nickle out of the coil (and I HIGHLY doubt it is), with coils lasting me 2-3 months, my daily average Nickle intake would be minuscule from vaping. Now considering the more likely factual scenario that only a tiny % of the Nickle will be released, and only during the dry burning into the air instead of being directly inhaled, the actual exposure is likely to be even less.
Not to mention that, many foods purge Nickle from the body (Vitamin C, garlic, cilantro, and more). So some exposure will be naturally purged anyway. Also if you look it up there are MANY sources for this contaminate and many of us were already exposed to it without even considering vaping.
You are absolutely correct that the "dose per breath" would be different. However, when cooking you are also heating up "POUNDS" of metal instead of a few milligrams of it. For most substances the toxicity is usually measured by molecular weight (grams, milligrams, etc.). Since an average coil (at least mine) is probably only 500-750 mg of total weight, and SS316L is only 8-10.5% Nickle, that means that at max my coils contain a mere 55mg of Nickle. Even IF it were possible to vape 100% of that Nickle out of the coil (and I HIGHLY doubt it is), with coils lasting me 2-3 months, my daily average Nickle intake would be minuscule from vaping. Now considering the more likely factual scenario that only a tiny % of the Nickle will be released, and only during the dry burning into the air instead of being directly inhaled, the actual exposure is likely to be even less.
Not to mention that, many foods purge Nickle from the body (Vitamin C, garlic, cilantro, and more). So some exposure will be naturally purged anyway. Also if you look it up there are MANY sources for this contaminate and many of us were already exposed to it without even considering vaping.
Anything grilled/burnt (and I like slightly burnt) is going to contain carcinogens. Sure, cooking is hazardous to your health and yet I somehow survived cooking for "the family" (of origin and then marriage, LOL) since age 12. Want some carbon monoxide in your lungs? Idle the car for a bit in the garage.
Look, our bodies are designed to purge a certain number of foreign objects and carcinogens, they literally do it non-stop 24-7. The problem arises when DOSE-related carcinogens are inhaled (and yes, we do not get cigarette "ingredients" and I noticed a lot of things happened when I switched to "additive-free" tobacco, including LACK of stains on my fingers and teeth, and I am fairly certain that some of those additives and humectants cause a "clinging to" the lungs as well as one's exterior.
Even with JUST tobacco, there is a huge difference between eating a dark piece of toast and regularly inhaling 3 pp/d (my most recent "estimate" when I quit). Additive free or not, that AMOUNT of smoke/tar/carbon monoxide was pretty overwhelming to my system given enough time. The fact is, I smoked for over 20 YEARS before I really began to notice what *I* considered "concerning effects." When I blew into a little machine that said, "Oh, you have the lungs of a 90 year old woman," I was like, eh, that ain't too bad, I can do what I need to do, I can exercise, and etc. Fast forward about 3 years, though, and my body's defenses were completely OVERWHELMED. I pretty much had on-and-off pneumonia for 18 months while my doctors were growing ever more frantic about COPD (and laryngeal cancer, which I did not have).
So, for a long time, my body "fought off" the effects of tobacco. I really wasn't an UNHAPPY smoker for ages, I was a happy smoker who was in some denial about the fact that my health was progressively worsening. It took 18 months of torture for me to really "get" that this is what COPD "life" would be like. I was on inhalers. I was using one of those at home "rescue" machines they give to asthmatic kids. I was on multiple abx and many rounds of steroids.
The fact that e-cigarettes not only REMOVED those symptoms but also started HEALING them was an amazement to me. The first cold I got vaping, I made a PREEMPTIVE doctor's appointment. I didn't NEED IT. The first time in several years, my body was not so overwhelmed with carcinogens, it was actually able to USE its immune system.
I'm a researcher and I like "proof" and "study." I am also a "human being" and I HAVE to believe in my own REAL WORLD experience, which is that, with some outstanding harm NOTWITHSTANDING, my body has been able to HEAL itself progressively, vaping AS MUCH as and HOWEVER I wanted.
Do I use TC more and best practices now? You bet. I was STILL getting better with a HOT tank using NO TC and NOT best practices to reduce harm. Am I glad I reduced my harm, well of course.
BUT, I still got better.... even using the worst vape practice possible, probably, max VG in a tiny little N2 tank. Yes, I wanted to learn "the safest" way, but even without it, my body was still healing in a way that reducing cigarettes or using "additive free" tobacco never allowed!
The body is a pretty magical system, and I choose to believe that even if I make continued errors and am not "perfect" in my vaping style, my body will, can, and wants to heal while vaping, and it has done so. Enough that I just don't worry AS much about the "what ifs" because I already have my answer, which my docs have confirmed.
Anna
Look, our bodies are designed to purge a certain number of foreign objects and carcinogens, they literally do it non-stop 24-7. The problem arises when DOSE-related carcinogens are inhaled (and yes, we do not get cigarette "ingredients" and I noticed a lot of things happened when I switched to "additive-free" tobacco, including LACK of stains on my fingers and teeth, and I am fairly certain that some of those additives and humectants cause a "clinging to" the lungs as well as one's exterior.
Even with JUST tobacco, there is a huge difference between eating a dark piece of toast and regularly inhaling 3 pp/d (my most recent "estimate" when I quit). Additive free or not, that AMOUNT of smoke/tar/carbon monoxide was pretty overwhelming to my system given enough time. The fact is, I smoked for over 20 YEARS before I really began to notice what *I* considered "concerning effects." When I blew into a little machine that said, "Oh, you have the lungs of a 90 year old woman," I was like, eh, that ain't too bad, I can do what I need to do, I can exercise, and etc. Fast forward about 3 years, though, and my body's defenses were completely OVERWHELMED. I pretty much had on-and-off pneumonia for 18 months while my doctors were growing ever more frantic about COPD (and laryngeal cancer, which I did not have).
So, for a long time, my body "fought off" the effects of tobacco. I really wasn't an UNHAPPY smoker for ages, I was a happy smoker who was in some denial about the fact that my health was progressively worsening. It took 18 months of torture for me to really "get" that this is what COPD "life" would be like. I was on inhalers. I was using one of those at home "rescue" machines they give to asthmatic kids. I was on multiple abx and many rounds of steroids.
The fact that e-cigarettes not only REMOVED those symptoms but also started HEALING them was an amazement to me. The first cold I got vaping, I made a PREEMPTIVE doctor's appointment. I didn't NEED IT. The first time in several years, my body was not so overwhelmed with carcinogens, it was actually able to USE its immune system.
I'm a researcher and I like "proof" and "study." I am also a "human being" and I HAVE to believe in my own REAL WORLD experience, which is that, with some outstanding harm NOTWITHSTANDING, my body has been able to HEAL itself progressively, vaping AS MUCH as and HOWEVER I wanted.
Do I use TC more and best practices now? You bet. I was STILL getting better with a HOT tank using NO TC and NOT best practices to reduce harm. Am I glad I reduced my harm, well of course.
BUT, I still got better.... even using the worst vape practice possible, probably, max VG in a tiny little N2 tank. Yes, I wanted to learn "the safest" way, but even without it, my body was still healing in a way that reducing cigarettes or using "additive free" tobacco never allowed!
The body is a pretty magical system, and I choose to believe that even if I make continued errors and am not "perfect" in my vaping style, my body will, can, and wants to heal while vaping, and it has done so. Enough that I just don't worry AS much about the "what ifs" because I already have my answer, which my docs have confirmed.
Anna
Logically thinking, there's no chance that smoking dangerous.
Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk
I will gladly test it for you, if you can provide two samples and return shipping should you want the containers back. My qualifications include having a consistent appetite for things that may not be good for me.
Look, there's insufficient data on jumping off a high building being more dangerous than sitting still for eight full hours, but there's no doubt that the former is far more dangerous. We know smoking cigarettes is incredibly dangerous, and we know why. There's simply no way normal vaping can be anywhere near that risk level. We don't heat up our coils hot enough where they'll release anything dangerous to levels that could even approach what we get from cigarettes. Don't give in to fear, use logic.
Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk
THANX for the suggestions Scott, DPL and NY13...
I started vaping (4+ years ago) 50PV/50VG (and 25PG/75VG) from Derall (GREAT prices)...
When they went OOB a year ago...I started being "pushed into" 30PG/70VG and 20PG/80VG by the "On Sale" sites...
However...living in a corner apartment where the 2 outside walls are ALL glass...it's hard to overlook the resulting build-up of "VG film"...
..
Glad to be of assistance.
To be fair, jumping/falling off of a high building is not the dangerous part. It's the sudden stop at the end that kills.
I was just over on a thread where someone posted that he really liked the vape he got from a TFV12 (or some such apparatus I am not familiar with) and a (4) battery mod that he set to 200 Watts for his vaping enjoyment, and just found a way to vape at only 100 watts and was proudly reporting his new find. I cannot imagine enjoying a vape on something like. Please explain to me how something like that is even possible to vape on. I would pay money to see that setup hooked up on some test equipment for analysis.
Actual temperatures inside a Smoktech TFV8 Big Baby Beast
Those devices typically have a LOT of coil mass, so they require a lot of wattage to get them hot enough to vape. Also, they are meant for the direct lung style of vaping which runs cooler.
I've got a fave (Naked Lava Flow) that comes mainly in 3 or 6MG, 70VG/30PG. With a fairly simple Excel calculator's help, I basically cut it in half to create 14MG@65PG/35VG. It still tastes absolutely divine.
They put a lot of flavor into some of those high VG juices, yes they do.
How in the holy hell do you dilute 6MG liquid and end up with 14mg? Did you mean 1.4? Decimal lives matter.
I started with like 70 VG/30 PG and noticed that "Heavy" feeling in my chest, then went to 50/50 and felt a little better. Then started reading this thread, back in it's beginning stages that is, and started mixing up 80 PG/ 20 VG and have been using that ever since. It seems to work for me better than the reverse does, with my chest feeling that is, and the cold weather up here in the winters. Juice just doesn't want to flow very good at -20°F to -30°F, ya know.
Ya know gerry, I never did notice that when I used 70 VG/ 30 PG mix. I guess I just didn't pay any attention back then. It makes sense though. I don't doubt you at all though.
Question:
Is the sole reason that folks use that bigger diameter wire for their coils because it produces more vapor than smaller gauge wire does, like 28g Kanthal, and hence, have to run higher wattages to fire that bigger wire ?? More Vapor production ?? I have never run bigger than 28g wire in my setups myself, so don't know the answer.
Question:
Is the sole reason that folks use that bigger diameter wire for their coils because it produces more vapor than smaller gauge wire does, like 28g Kanthal, and hence, have to run higher wattages to fire that bigger wire ?? More Vapor production ?? I have never run bigger than 28g wire in my setups myself, so don't know the answer.
Last edited:
I WISH I could use more PG especially inside. 10% DW doesn't do much for clouds, I wonder if it's possible to use more. It drives the husband nuts, and while it's easy to shut off the heat and open doors in the winter during the day, but it certainly isn't going to be in the summer months.
I may have to institute a vape outside policy, then. I really actually don't like it myself, and the husband, who uses 50/50 gets such nice small CLOUDS.... Only I took a hit off his vape and it was like inhaling a bale full of needles. Sigh. Maybe I can try slowly and gradually adding in 1% and see what I can tolerate. Suggestions welcomed
Anna
I may have to institute a vape outside policy, then. I really actually don't like it myself, and the husband, who uses 50/50 gets such nice small CLOUDS.... Only I took a hit off his vape and it was like inhaling a bale full of needles. Sigh. Maybe I can try slowly and gradually adding in 1% and see what I can tolerate. Suggestions welcomed
Anna
Since way back when I first started I was always told the rule of thumb was use pg to carry the flavor (hence why 100% VG has so much more flavoring), and use VG to make clouds.I WISH I could use more PG especially inside. 10% DW doesn't do much for clouds, I wonder if it's possible to use more. It drives the husband nuts, and while it's easy to shut off the heat and open doors in the winter during the day, but it certainly isn't going to be in the summer months.
I may have to institute a vape outside policy, then. I really actually don't like it myself, and the husband, who uses 50/50 gets such nice small CLOUDS.... Only I took a hit off his vape and it was like inhaling a bale full of needles. Sigh. Maybe I can try slowly and gradually adding in 1% and see what I can tolerate. Suggestions welcomed
Anna
I think your only choice is to experiment to find the ratios that make you happy.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
