New to vaping...

[Baditude]

The only harm i see in vaping really is if you get spitback from the atomizer and allergies if you have any and that you get less breathing because its still inhale...

It is not a huge risk, perhaps, and compared to smoking, preferable. No doubt. But OP is not transitioning from smoking, but from just breathing.
The risks, however low, are non-zero and greater than his baseline. That is why i would always discourage a non-smoker from starting to inhale any foreign substance. As has been said, he will do what he wants anyway.

I might point out that even though the OP is not using nicotine in his e-liquid, he could be setting himself up for an addiction regardless. There is more to the "addiction" phenomenon than "physical addiction" to a drug or substance.

Psychological or behavioral addiction is still an addiction. For example, a sex addict has a behavioral addiction. The "hand-to-mouth" behavior and "desire or need to inhale/exhale a substance" behavior of vaping can become an addiction. As much as the OP has been vaping in such a short period of time makes me think he is well on his way to a behavioral addiction.

 

[hat.jr]

The term I used was "studying", but I did not mean directed research about any specific element of vaping. Rather I have been surveying articles and postings just as most average readers would do. I did not intend to represent myself as an authority; just as an interested user with an opinion. And I assumed those who do know more might respond with specifics. I'm just attempting to engage in conversation, not engage in a formal course of study. The reason I usually just read forums rather than engage is there is too much chest-thumping and schoolyard bullying going on. I don't need some stranger scolding me for what he perceives as laziness on my part. If you don't want to add any information just don't respond to the post.

 

[ilporcupine]

I might point out that even though you are not using nicotine in your e-liquid, you could be setting yourself up for an addiction regardless. There is more to the "addiction" phenomenon than "physical addiction" to a drug or substance. Psychological or behavioral addiction to vaping include the "hand-to-mouth" behavior and "desire or need to inhale/exhale a substance" behavior. As much as you have been vaping in such a short time makes me think you are well on your way to an addiction.

I can attest to that as well. I am sitting here vaping 70/30 with a touch of menthol. No nic. I smoked most of my life, and the habit is just as much a part of it, as nicotine. Baditude, you get a like and an agree, if only in my mind!

 

[ScottP]

Pain is the body's way of telling the brain to "STOP DOING THAT ". Really your lungs are not used to having mass quantities of vapor/smoke/etc. being pumped into them. They are telling you to quit.

Since you are not a smoker/former smoker then you aren't going to get out of vaping what the rest of us do....longer better lives than when we were smoking. If you really want to push ahead, that is your choice, your lungs should eventually get used to it.

 

[ilporcupine]

The term I used was "studying", but I did not mean directed research about any specific element of vaping. Rather I have been surveying articles and postings just as most average readers would do. I did not intend to represent myself as an authority; just as an interested user with an opinion. And I assumed those who do know more might respond with specifics. I'm just attempting to engage in conversation, not engage in a formal course of study. The reason I usually just read forums rather than engage is there is too much chest-thumping and schoolyard bullying going on. I don't need some stranger scolding me for what he perceives as laziness on my part. If you don't want to add any information just don't respond to the post.

You are right, you did say studying. To me that is research, although not the formal scientific study which that word sometimes connotes. We are all vapers, here, and no one wants to bring unnecessary scrutiny on the practice. There is information here on this forum. I am not good with links, and such, which is why I suggested a simple search. Not to scold you for anything. Just don't read ONLY the pro-vaping slants, OK?
Sorry to have upset you.

 

[stols001]

I don't need some stranger scolding me for what he perceives as laziness on my part.

I'm really confused now? Did anyone accuse you of laziness or lack of interest in/understanding of vaping? Directly? I didn't see anything other than concern for your wellbeing and probably directions to a somewhat deeper understanding of vaping and its components, etc.?

I will say behavioral and psychological addictions can happen, and they do, all the time. Interestingly, the addiction that seems to have the most 'harm" connected to it is gambling. I used to drive past Pimlico raceway all the time when I lived back east, and the scariest school I've ever been inside was the school right near it. That area is pretty much a wasteland and studies have born out the fact that gambling causes the most misery of ALL the addictions, in fact ONE approach to "fixing" gambling is to get the person addicted to another (censored) substance, as it is actually less harmful over the long run.

So don't rule out the behavioral/psychological aspects, would be my advice. AT LEAST half of the success from vaping comes from the hand to mouth, inhalation part (IMHO) and then you do have flavors and etc.

Again, I'm not saying don't vape. If you want to vape, vape. I doubt it will tear through your life in quite the same way gambling does, but if I (personally) didn't have a hand to mouth inhalation habit, I'd be unlikely to nurture one in myself, honestly, as there are times it can be something of a PITA. Nothing like smoking, honestly, but the risks are real, they do exist, and etc.

You've actually gotten a surprisingly nuanced and welcoming sort of thing for ECF for a non smoker taking up vaping and then reporting LUNG pain. I'm sort of surprised the thread is still open, but no one here has told you not to vape. You've been given information on vaping that may or may not suit you, but we are laying out the facts. You would do well to heed them, and I don't really see too much chest thumping on anyone's part other than perhaps your last post.

I'm not trying to rag on you, I know sometimes sentences rub people the wrong way and etc., but you have gotten honest opinions from honest vapers, the good, the bad, the ugly.... and the addictive. Vaping no nic MAY be less addictive than nic and I'm glad you are going that route.

Don't dismiss behavioral addiction though, it's a very, very real thing. I mean, isn't porn hub expanding into Youtube's market thanks to it's awesome, internet market share? Something my kid told me, actually, but that should tell you something about "behavioral addictions" too.

Anna

 

[ScottP]

And there is a lot of weird, baseless speculation like, for instance, mixing PG and VG together and heating it might somehow magically create carcinogens! No theory from chemistry is suggested or even alluded to to explain how this might occur.

There is no need to mix the PG and VG they will BOTH INDIVIDUALLY (or mixed) oxidize and break down into various aldehydes, including but not limited to formaldehyde when heated. This is not speculation, it is chemistry 101 FACT.

Chemical formulas:
PG = C3H8O2
VG = C3H8O3 (note only 1 extra oxygen atom vs PG, otherwise identical)
Formaldehyde = CH2O (now look at the PG and VG and tell me you see no way for those to break down into this with heat as a catalyst)

Now as long as you aren't overheating the coils causing a lot of this oxidation to occur the aldehyde levels are WAY below what is found in cigarette smoke (but still present) BUT IF you do overheat the coils the aldehyde production can surpass what is in cigarette smoke. It is a risk, but a low risk with a little common sense.

EDIT: Thanks to my own research and testing done by @mikepetro we have discovered that adding 10% distilled (always use distilled, not tap, or filtered) water will somewhat reduce the oxidation and thus the aldehyde levels in your vapor, if you are concerned about it.

Take a look at the chart in this post for more details: New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

EDIT 2: Just as a side note, the aforementioned overheating is exactly how those junk science reports are able to produce so much formaldehyde in their "tests". They overheat the coil with little airflow and bring the liquid almost to the point of full combustion. In other words they are doing this on purpose in ways that would not occur in real world vaping scenarios in order to get results that fit their agenda. So in this regard you are correct to reject the validity of their findings. The science is sound, but their methodology is not.

EDIT3: As a final note and for the sake of completeness. If you bring those materials all the way up to the full combustion point the products would be harmless carbon dioxide and water. Also one of the other aldehydes produced is acetaldehyde, Formula: CH3CHO which is a "Group 1 carcinogen". Before this scares you away though, acetaldehyde occurs naturally in coffee, bread, and ripe fruit and is also produced by the partial oxidation of alcoholic beverages by the liver, so you are probably going to be exposed to this regardless if you vape or not.

 

[ilporcupine]

I was out, and they sucked me back in...
(reminds me of something)

 

[ilporcupine]

There is no need to mix the PG and VG they will BOTH INDIVIDUALLY (or mixed) oxidize and break down into various aldehydes, including but not limited to formaldehyde when heated. This is not speculation, it is chemistry 101 FACT.

Chemical formulas:
PG = C3H8O2
VG = C3H8O3 (note only 1 extra oxygen atom vs PG, otherwise identical)
Formaldehyde = CH2O (now look at the PG and VG and tell me you see no way for those to break down into this with heat as a catalyst)

Now as long as you aren't overheating the coils causing a lot of this oxidation to occur the aldehyde levels are WAY below what is found in cigarette smoke (but still present) BUT IF you do overheat the coils the aldehyde production can surpass what is in cigarette smoke. It is a risk, but a low risk with a little common sense.

EDIT: Thanks to my own research and testing done by @mikepetro we have discovered that adding 10% distilled (always use distilled, not tap, or filtered) water will somewhat reduce the oxidation and thus the aldehyde levels in your vapor, if you are concerned about it.

Take a look at the chart in this post for more details: New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

Thanks, ScottP

 

[hat.jr]

You are right, you did say studying. To me that is research, although not the formal scientific study which that word sometimes connotes. We are all vapers, here, and no one wants to bring unnecessary scrutiny on the practice. There is information here on this forum. I am not good with links, and such, which is why I suggested a simple search. Not to scold you for anything. Just don't read ONLY the pro-vaping slants, OK?
Sorry to have upset you.

Thank you for the apology.

Let me see if I can state my argument more clearly.

I don't read "ONLY the pro-vaping slants". Almost everything I read or hear about vaping actually has an anti vaping bias. In fact, the only pro vaping slant I'm aware of is the one I inferred from what I've read and heard which is that, while many allege that vaping is dangerous, so far, no one has been able to clearly demonstrate that vaping is dangerous. The impression I've formed is that the current state of the science does not provide any data generally accepted by the scientific community that conclusively shows vaping is dangerous. I understand it could be found dangerous in the future, but so far it has not been shown to be so. There may be some reason to suspect it might be harmful, but again, so far it has not been shown to be so. So, it seems, the only rational position one can currently take about the dangers of vaping is "We don't know if it is dangerous". Which I believe is equivalent to "So far there is no evidence of harm." Obviously, we may discover otherwise in the future, but the current state of affairs is there is no proof of harm.

Meanwhile, it seems many people, including many vapers, just intuitively feel that vaping must be harmful. "It's breathing something other than air so it must be damaging". I'd say that's not an argument. It's a supposition with intuitive appeal. And breathing only air, depending on what's in the air, can be very dangerous itself so that makes it a bad comparison (and a bad appeal to intuition). People taking on this guilt (and shame) about indulging in what they think is a harmful activity without good reason bothers me.

So, when I see so many conversational threads where so many people agree that vaping "has got to be harmful" I feel like I should point out that there does not appear to be any evidence to support that conclusion. And I say that, because I feel that if there was any such conclusive evidence that vaping is harmful I, and others, would have heard or seen some reference to that information by now.

And that's what I meant to ask for when I asked people to "explain further". Does anyone know of a definitive, conclusive study that shows that vaping is harmful? I haven't heard of one, and I'm not confident I will find it by researching carbonyls or any other detail of vaping on this forum or any other.

I apologize if, in my original posting, I sounded arrogant or like I know something others don't know. I was taking the position that it appears no one really knows with certainty whether vaping is harmful or not. If that's clearly wrong please let me know.

 

[hat.jr]

I'm really confused now? Did anyone accuse you of laziness or lack of interest in/understanding of vaping? Directly? I didn't see anything other than concern for your wellbeing and probably directions to a somewhat deeper understanding of vaping and its components, etc.?

I will say behavioral and psychological addictions can happen, and they do, all the time. Interestingly, the addiction that seems to have the most 'harm" connected to it is gambling. I used to drive past Pimlico raceway all the time when I lived back east, and the scariest school I've ever been inside was the school right near it. That area is pretty much a wasteland and studies have born out the fact that gambling causes the most misery of ALL the addictions, in fact ONE approach to "fixing" gambling is to get the person addicted to another (censored) substance, as it is actually less harmful over the long run.

So don't rule out the behavioral/psychological aspects, would be my advice. AT LEAST half of the success from vaping comes from the hand to mouth, inhalation part (IMHO) and then you do have flavors and etc.

Again, I'm not saying don't vape. If you want to vape, vape. I doubt it will tear through your life in quite the same way gambling does, but if I (personally) didn't have a hand to mouth inhalation habit, I'd be unlikely to nurture one in myself, honestly, as there are times it can be something of a PITA. Nothing like smoking, honestly, but the risks are real, they do exist, and etc.

You've actually gotten a surprisingly nuanced and welcoming sort of thing for ECF for a non smoker taking up vaping and then reporting LUNG pain. I'm sort of surprised the thread is still open, but no one here has told you not to vape. You've been given information on vaping that may or may not suit you, but we are laying out the facts. You would do well to heed them, and I don't really see too much chest thumping on anyone's part other than perhaps your last post.

I'm not trying to rag on you, I know sometimes sentences rub people the wrong way and etc., but you have gotten honest opinions from honest vapers, the good, the bad, the ugly.... and the addictive. Vaping no nic MAY be less addictive than nic and I'm glad you are going that route.

Don't dismiss behavioral addiction though, it's a very, very real thing. I mean, isn't porn hub expanding into Youtube's market thanks to it's awesome, internet market share? Something my kid told me, actually, but that should tell you something about "behavioral addictions" too.

Anna

I'm really confused now? Did anyone accuse you of laziness or lack of interest in/understanding of vaping? Directly? I didn't see anything other than concern for your wellbeing and probably directions to a somewhat deeper understanding of vaping and its components, etc.?

I will say behavioral and psychological addictions can happen, and they do, all the time. Interestingly, the addiction that seems to have the most 'harm" connected to it is gambling. I used to drive past Pimlico raceway all the time when I lived back east, and the scariest school I've ever been inside was the school right near it. That area is pretty much a wasteland and studies have born out the fact that gambling causes the most misery of ALL the addictions, in fact ONE approach to "fixing" gambling is to get the person addicted to another (censored) substance, as it is actually less harmful over the long run.

So don't rule out the behavioral/psychological aspects, would be my advice. AT LEAST half of the success from vaping comes from the hand to mouth, inhalation part (IMHO) and then you do have flavors and etc.

Again, I'm not saying don't vape. If you want to vape, vape. I doubt it will tear through your life in quite the same way gambling does, but if I (personally) didn't have a hand to mouth inhalation habit, I'd be unlikely to nurture one in myself, honestly, as there are times it can be something of a PITA. Nothing like smoking, honestly, but the risks are real, they do exist, and etc.

You've actually gotten a surprisingly nuanced and welcoming sort of thing for ECF for a non smoker taking up vaping and then reporting LUNG pain. I'm sort of surprised the thread is still open, but no one here has told you not to vape. You've been given information on vaping that may or may not suit you, but we are laying out the facts. You would do well to heed them, and I don't really see too much chest thumping on anyone's part other than perhaps your last post.

I'm not trying to rag on you, I know sometimes sentences rub people the wrong way and etc., but you have gotten honest opinions from honest vapers, the good, the bad, the ugly.... and the addictive. Vaping no nic MAY be less addictive than nic and I'm glad you are going that route.

Don't dismiss behavioral addiction though, it's a very, very real thing. I mean, isn't porn hub expanding into Youtube's market thanks to it's awesome, internet market share? Something my kid told me, actually, but that should tell you something about "behavioral addictions" too.

Anna

Dearest Anna,

Mr. or Mrs. Porcupine, as the case may be, did indeed imply that I am too lazy to research a topic before asking about it. If you can't see that, and if you haven't noticed his/her very sarcastic tone then nothing I can write here will convince you otherwise. And when Mr. Porcupine returns from a European vacation and entertains guests and they ask "How was Italy, Mr. Porcupine" he surely retorts indignantly "Well, if you would simply enter Italy into Google search you will certainly learn more about it that I could ever tell you"!

As to the rest of your post, I think you must have meant it for another poster because I've said nothing about addiction or any of the other items in your post. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to have my head examined for thinking that it would be a good idea to post to an online forum.

 

[classwife]

 

[hat.jr]

There is no need to mix the PG and VG they will BOTH INDIVIDUALLY (or mixed) oxidize and break down into various aldehydes, including but not limited to formaldehyde when heated. This is not speculation, it is chemistry 101 FACT.

Chemical formulas:
PG = C3H8O2
VG = C3H8O3 (note only 1 extra oxygen atom vs PG, otherwise identical)
Formaldehyde = CH2O (now look at the PG and VG and tell me you see no way for those to break down into this with heat as a catalyst)

Now as long as you aren't overheating the coils causing a lot of this oxidation to occur the aldehyde levels are WAY below what is found in cigarette smoke (but still present) BUT IF you do overheat the coils the aldehyde production can surpass what is in cigarette smoke. It is a risk, but a low risk with a little common sense.

EDIT: Thanks to my own research and testing done by @mikepetro we have discovered that adding 10% distilled (always use distilled, not tap, or filtered) water will somewhat reduce the oxidation and thus the aldehyde levels in your vapor, if you are concerned about it.

Take a look at the chart in this post for more details: New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

EDIT 2: Just as a side note, the aforementioned overheating is exactly how those junk science reports are able to produce so much formaldehyde in their "tests". They overheat the coil with little airflow and bring the liquid almost to the point of full combustion. In other words they are doing this on purpose in ways that would not occur in real world vaping scenarios in order to get results that fit their agenda. So in this regard you are correct to reject the validity of their findings. The science is sound, but their methodology is not.

EDIT3: As a final note and for the sake of completeness. If you bring those materials all the way up to the full combustion point the products would be harmless carbon dioxide and water. Also one of the other aldehydes produced is acetaldehyde, Formula: CH3CHO which is a "Group 1 carcinogen". Before this scares you away though, acetaldehyde occurs naturally in coffee, bread, and ripe fruit and is also produced by the partial oxidation of alcoholic beverages by the liver, so you are probably going to be exposed to this regardless if you vape or not.

Thank you for the information. I'm afraid I'm guilty of brandishing my ignorance again. I dropped chemistry because the classroom was stuffy and I found the class uninteresting. I took biology of animals instead - but I've forgotten all that information too.

 

[ScottP]

Thank you for the apology.

Let me see if I can state my argument more clearly.

I don't read "ONLY the pro-vaping slants". Almost everything I read or hear about vaping actually has an anti vaping bias. In fact, the only pro vaping slant I'm aware of is the one I inferred from what I've read and heard which is that, while many allege that vaping is dangerous, so far, no one has been able to clearly demonstrate that vaping is dangerous. The impression I've formed is that the current state of the science does not provide any data generally accepted by the scientific community that conclusively shows vaping is dangerous. I understand it could be found dangerous in the future, but so far it has not been shown to be so. There may be some reason to suspect it might be harmful, but again, so far it has not been shown to be so. So, it seems, the only rational position one can currently take about the dangers of vaping is "We don't know if it is dangerous". Which I believe is equivalent to "So far there is no evidence of harm." Obviously, we may discover otherwise in the future, but the current state of affairs is there is no proof of harm.

Meanwhile, it seems many people, including many vapers, just intuitively feel that vaping must be harmful. "It's breathing something other than air so it must be damaging". I'd say that's not an argument. It's a supposition with intuitive appeal. And breathing only air, depending on what's in the air, can be very dangerous itself so that makes it a bad comparison (and a bad appeal to intuition). People taking on this guilt (and shame) about indulging in what they think is a harmful activity without good reason bothers me.

So, when I see so many conversational threads where so many people agree that vaping "has got to be harmful" I feel like I should point out that there does not appear to be any evidence to support that conclusion. And I say that, because I feel that if there was any such conclusive evidence that vaping is harmful I, and others, would have heard or seen some reference to that information by now.

And that's what I meant to ask for when I asked people to "explain further". Does anyone know of a definitive, conclusive study that shows that vaping is harmful? I haven't heard of one, and I'm not confident I will find it by researching carbonyls or any other detail of vaping on this forum or any other.

I apologize if, in my original posting, I sounded arrogant or like I know something others don't know. I was taking the position that it appears no one really knows with certainty whether vaping is harmful or not. If that's clearly wrong please let me know.

I do want to say that I hope you take nothing I say personally. I tend to wade into these "aldehyde" discussions in an attempt to make sure that anyone that comes into the thread later has all the known data at the time. It is not necessarily questioning your knowledge or research skills.

That said, I can't say that there is zero evidence that vaping can be harmful. As I have said in my prior post there ARE carcinogens in vapor. Depending on the wire you use and other factors there has been evidence of some metal leeching. Despite all of that though, the preponderance of evidence is not that vaping is 100% safe, but that it is at least 95% safer than smoking and possibly no more dangerous than drinking coffee, eating bread, or eating overcooked food. Fundamentally speaking, I doubt there is anything you could eat, drink, or inhale that doesn't have at least some level of risk. Especially in this post-industrial polluted world we live in. However doing multiple things can add up. So vaping, plus drinking coffee, plus eating lots of ripe fruits, plus drinking lots of alcohol can increase your total exposure more than any one of them individually. Personally I don't drink alcohol or coffee so my baseline is going to be lower than someone that does both. I do eat lots of meat, so my biggest risk is probably cholesterol (though I get that checked every year and so far so good).

Bottom line: I feel very confident in saying that vaping does carry some minor risk. However being 100% safe is NOT the goal of vaping. The goal of vaping should be to move from the red bar to the orange bar as far as risk level goes. If you or anyone reading this wants 0 risk, then don't do either. If you want less risk than smoking then vaping is it.

 

[ScottP]

Can I haz?

 

[stols001]

I don't think the kind of "harm" we are talking about is measurable by a single study, and would likely be cumulative so it's going to be a while before knowing for sure.

I don't feel "guilty" about vaping, I feel quite proud of the fact that I could put down cigarettes. I'm proud to be a vaper, but it's sort of a "comparative" proud if that makes sense.

I think the hesitation you are seeing is a) for a long time with cigarettes they were considered "safe" and they aren't. I would unhesitatingly recommend vaping to any smoker.

I do see a lack of desire by anyone (including myself) to enthusiastically state that vaping is safe to a never vaper. I don't think anyone on ECF would be willing to tell you that. The "long term" effect is totally unmeasurable at this point. So far, vaping studies have shown it to be safer than smoking (probably) but anyone who would make a statement "Vaping is 100% safe" really isn't waiting for the long term data. It is (for the most part) looking good.

My hesitation to enthusiastically endorse a never-vaper to start vaping will be in place for a long time to come, because the kind of long term studies wanted/needed just aren't there and it's impossible to measure something that can only take place in the future.

If you want to jump on board, well, it's totally your life. I think you are mistaken that vapers, as a whole, are "ashamed" of vaping. They aren't. If you want to join the throng and hey, become one of the cohort of never-smoking vapers, then you should absolutely do that, and there is nothing to be "ashamed" of. But, the data you are asking for just does not exist.

Risk is real, measurable and etc., but vaping's too new. You are just seeing folks who battled (for the most part) horrible struggles with smoking, who (I know I do) wished they had never STARTED, and are grateful for vaping.

Similarly, there is the potential for a "never vaper" starting, and perhaps many years down the road, wished they had never started, but that is as yet unknown, by anyone. What is known is that there can exist measurable toxins under certain conditions, and etc.

Anna

 

[hat.jr]

I do want to say that I hope you take nothing I say personally. I tend to wade into these "aldehyde" discussions in an attempt to make sure that anyone that comes into the thread later has all the known data at the time. It is not necessarily questioning your knowledge or research skills.

That said, I can't say that there is zero evidence that vaping can be harmful. As I have said in my prior post there ARE carcinogens in vapor. Depending on the wire you use and other factors there has been evidence of some metal leeching. Despite all of that though, the preponderance of evidence is not that vaping is 100% safe, but that it is at least 95% safer than smoking and possibly no more dangerous than drinking coffee, eating bread, or eating overcooked food. Fundamentally speaking, I doubt there is anything you could eat, drink, or inhale that doesn't have at least some level of risk. Especially in this post-industrial polluted world we live in. However doing multiple things can add up. So vaping, plus drinking coffee, plus eating lots of ripe fruits, plus drinking lots of alcohol can increase your total exposure more than any one of them individually. Personally I don't drink alcohol or coffee so my baseline is going to be lower than someone that does both. I do eat lots of meat, so my biggest risk is probably cholesterol (though I get that checked every year and so far so good).

Bottom line: I feel very confident in saying that vaping does carry some minor risk. However being 100% safe is NOT the goal of vaping. The goal of vaping should be to move from the red bar to the orange bar as far as risk level goes. If you or anyone reading this wants 0 risk, then don't do either. If you want less risk than smoking then vaping is it.

View attachment 734971

Scott,

I don't take anything personally unless it's explicitly personal, and I appreciate your concern for my feelings. I don't have any special knowledge or research skills I'm trying to wield or protect here, I'm just trying to think clearly about such concepts as risk and harm and the terminology that's used to describe vaping to vapers and the rest of the world.

Vaping seems like a brilliant, miracle cure for smoking to me, but it's already heavily stigmatized by public health institutions that should know better; it gets trashed in the press all the time, and it seems even enthusiastic, knowledgeable vapers often see it as a more dangerous or risky activity that what the evidence warrants.

And I regret I wasn't able to articulate my message in a more palatable fashion.

 

[classwife]

Vaping seems like a brilliant, miracle cure for smoking to me, but it's already heavily stigmatized by public health institutions that should know better; it gets trashed in the press all the time,

When I first heard of e-cigarettes I did my research. I checked out PG, VG, Nic.
(I got brought up that way, I research the heck out of things)
I just don't get how anyone with half a brain can't be hollering hallelujah for smokers to have a combustion free alternative nicotine delivery method.

and it seems even enthusiastic, knowledgeable vapers often see it as a more dangerous or risky activity that what the evidence warrants.

I think this is more the "err on the side of caution" as long term we just don't know.


I haven't run into anyone that isn't healthier vaping than they were smoking.

I smoked for over 40 years and had no desire to stop. I was going to die a smoker.
So, a brilliant, miracle ? I believe so - absolutely.

Edit to add : I haven't had a cigarette in over 8 years

 

[DeloresRose]

I can attest to that as well. I am sitting here vaping 70/30 with a touch of menthol. No nic. I smoked most of my life, and the habit is just as much a part of it, as nicotine. Baditude, you get a like and an agree, if only in my mind!

Exactly! I do use nic - 6 or 3 mg/ml. But I tried all the nic replacement cessation products available. I always said, if they’d been stuck in a cigarette like device, they’d have worked for me. The physical aspect of smoking was as much an addiction for me as the nic. First time I heard of e cigarettes, I knew they were going to be a winner.

 

[JayFy23]

Just out of curio, who showed you how to rebuild? That seldom do folks post what they're cooking on during or after when these questions arise. What power are you using? Mod's niiice, but can you post a pic of your build? Like I said, just curious. And certainly not to encourage you but help if poss to isolate the source/s of your issues, I'd suggest foregoing flavorings and vape straight VG non-flavored for relief and contrast.

Good luck.

Sure ! Here is my current build, i vape on menthol 75%VG, 15%PG from "Central Vape City" with 0mg nic. No one really showed me how to build, i did my own research on the internet and all i use is household tool, i use a 3mm of diameter screwdriver to wrap my coils around, this build was done with 11 wraps i think, i used 26ga kanthal wire with bacon cotton, it shows 27.7 watts but i raised it to 31 watts, ohms should be close to 0.70.

 

[hat.jr]

I just entered your build parameters into the coil wrapping calculator at steam-engine.org. The suggested wattage for your build for a cool vape is 68 watts. A stone cold vape would be around 40 watts and a hot vape would be 120 watts. So, unless I'm missing something, you might want to consider increasing your wattage for a better experience as it seems your settings of 27 to 31 watts are very low.