New Variable Voltage device from smoktech?

[donnah]

don't be offended. The Lavatube pretty much jaded many of us when it comes to Hype about a new and great device coming out. When it comes available and people start getting it and it performs like it's advertised, then the company won't need one person to spread the word. Believe me... if it's worthy of respect.. the good people of ecf will let it be known.

Don't know if I'll be in the market for one cause I've got my eye on one of those vv REO woodvils coming out soon

 

[Frick]

I tell you what ....you obviously have a computer,there are 3 or 4 videos out now on you tube , 1 in particular that the person is using one of the many testing devices I use also, he has the same unit I do and you can CLEARLY see all the numbers you need to in real time as he uses it underload. I dont have the link handy but Im sure you can search it on you tube. As far as me going above and beyond the call of duty just to please ecf members. Not to sound like a .....,as Im sure I will, but Im just not here to please everyone else, sorry, I do what I feel like doing,if anything,with the limited time I have to do it in. I work 50-60 hours a week with HP, after that, its ME time. You can try to respect that or you can crucify me some more, whatever makes you feel better I guess. If you watch the video it will clearly support anything I've said as a opinion by the shear numbers. As far as the LT hype,I dont disagree with you, i was totally let down when i got mine...BUT, the LT and the VMAX arent even in the same ballpark NOT EVEN IN THE SAME CITY BLOCK OF THE BALLPARK. I cant wait till more people have them, and they will, very, very soon. Take care everyone.

Hmm...I didn't crucify you in any discernible way; I simply asked you a few questions. I just feel that if you are going to make claims that you've done thorough testing of the device, and basically evangelize for it on a public forum, it might be nice to see your empirical evidence.

I understand if you don't want to share any hard data. It just makes it a bit harder to take your claims seriously.

I'll wait for the data from others. I'm interested in information regarding the unit, but unsubstantiated claims and hyperbole (in the very post I quoted, in fact) aren't helping anyone here or elsewhere to have a clear idea of the performance of the mod in any measurable terms.

I shan't bother you about it again.

 

[MickeyRat]

They would actually max out around 8.4 volts (4.2 volts each). Not sure why they are called 3.7 volt batteries. I suppose it may be what they average throughout their charge.

Well actually the 7.5V was based on 5amps with a 1.5 ohm resistance and not on the battery's possible output. Considering the fact that you're limited to 5 amps you're not going to get to 8.2V with this mod. If you actually measure the voltage coming off the batts as they discharge they spend most of their time pretty close to 3.7V. That's why the rating.

As for buzzkill's patent, I do not think it will withstand a serious fight. For the same reason that the weedeater patent failed to withstand a serious fight. You can't patent something that is obvious. If a court can rule that cutting weeds with a fishing line is obvious, I don't think buzzkill stands a chance considering he used standard components to do a standard thing and the fistpack had already demonstrated the feasibilty of VV in this application.

However, in order for the patent to fail in court, someone has to want to bring on a serious fight. In the case of the weedeater, there were large companies with plenty of resources that wanted to nulify the patent. What worried me most about this patent is that most mod makers would not have the resources to fight. Actually smoketek probably does, I'm I'll bet, if push comes to shove they will fight it and they will win.

 

[Errol]

I guess. If you watch the video it will clearly support anything I've said as a opinion by the shear numbers. As far as the LT hype,I don't disagree with you, i was totally let down when i got mine...BUT, the LT and the VMAX arent even in the same ballpark NOT EVEN IN THE SAME CITY BLOCK OF THE BALLPARK. I cant wait till more people have them, and they will, very, very soon. Take care everyone.

Hi VAPNJ350, Personally found your information to be quite informative and about all I need to know for now about the Vmax and Lavatube V1.5. If some need more reassurance before making up their mind they should probably just wait until the product has been available for a few months.

Too bad some members found it necessary to waste so much space with arguments that had nothing to do with the threads intent.

Errol

 

[ChrispyCritter]

don't be offended. The Lavatube pretty much jaded many of us when it comes to Hype about a new and great device coming out. When it comes available and people start getting it and it performs like it's advertised, then the company won't need one person to spread the word. Believe me... if it's worthy of respect.. the good people of ecf will let it be known.

Don't know if I'll be in the market for one cause I've got my eye on one of those vv REO woodvils coming out soon

Here's the thing it's not that many who are "jaded" by LT and it sells..I see a lot more posts where people are happy with the LT than are not. If the new ones work as good or better overall they will sell and if the Smok device works good it will sell..it should make some happy that crave the higher amp limit...

I really like the REO but I can't justify spending that much on a PV..I would like to attempt to build something like that out (probably just a VV mod not juice feeder) of wood..I have a dremel style rotary tool and some wood up top in the garage so maybe I'll give it a try sometime when it's nicer out so I can work in the garage. It's been nice here at times but not consistently enough yet..we could see 2-4" of snow tonight and flurries this week with daily highs in the 40's...

 

[John D in CT]

And now for something completely different - YouTube

Cut-and-paste of a post I just made in http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...sion/287852-smok-tech-vmax-4.html#post5890073

*****

Well, just ordered a black VMax - they're now in stock at All About Vapor

http://www.allaboutvapor.com/vaporshop/index.php?route=common/home

$128.95 a pop, but hey - free shipping! lol

And I thought this was pretty funny ... do you think they stock batteries for it, or a charger for same? Nope.

For batteries, I would recommend only Lighthound.com:

http://www.lighthound.com/

and would also recommend getting either four (or better yet, six) AW IMR 18350 3.7 volt batteries for it, and a charger if you don't have one already. A Trustfire TR-001 will get the job done, though there are probably better chargers out there.

Reminder: this is a stacked battery device, and the utmost care must be taken in the selection, maintenance, charging, and use of these very powerful batteries, especially when stacked. This device is NOT ECF compliant, so you're pretty much on your own and using this device at your own risk.

To learn a lot about batteries, stacked batteries, hazards involved, use, selection, and care of batteries, and a whole lot more, this (very long, and very informative) thread is highly recommended reading:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...288409-colorado-man-sues-after-explosion.html

526 posts, but you do receive a medal if you finish it, and they bang a big gong when and if you do.

Especially if you do use stacked batteries, but even when using only one, I would take these precautions to reduce your risk of injury (some of these suggestions obviously refer specifically to the use of two batteries):

Buy only AW batteries from a trusted vendor. Until a list of them is compiled, I would stick with Lighthound.

Mark your batteries in dedicated pairs: 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 3A, 3B ... and use them ONLY in pairs.

Rotate A for B, B for A every time you use that pair. (One goes in first, then the next time, the other goes in first).

Use a digital multimeter ($10 and up) to constantly monitor the voltage of your batteries:

Measure their voltage when you take them out of your APV to charge them; the voltage should be nearly identical. The closer the better, but I think .2 volts is significant.

Measure their voltage when they come off the charger; same criterion.

Note any odd behavior while charging. (Example - I had a pair of batteries, fairly new, where one read about .2 volts lower than the other, but would not take a charge while the one with higher voltage did. That is "odd behavior", and I took them both out of service).

Learn how to test the internal resistance of a battery, something I still need to do myself. [Add YouTube link].

Handle the batteries as if your life depends on it, because it just might. Handle them like they are Faberge eggs; if you drop one on a hard surface from more than maybe a foot (nice going, $2 million down the drain ), discard it and its mate. Or take a chance - your choice.

Don't toss them loose into a pocket (!), purse, or anywhere the positive posts might touch a ground, or the two posts might become shorted by a conductor. You do not want to short these batteries out. A 1000 mah battery can put out 1 amp at 3.7 volts for one hour. That is a lot of juice. Little insulated rubber sleeves like the ones on cartomizers would be a nice touch.

Learn the differences between all of the most common battery types, for your own safety, and so that maybe someday you can prevent someone else from getting injured or worse.

Any battery, protected or unprotected, can experience an internal short, where the positively and negatively charged internal components come into contact with one another and cause a large, sudden release of energy. It's rare, but it happens; and the more carelessly a battery is handled and treated, and the more any warning signs are ignored, the less rare it becomes. If a battery is acting strangely, it's not going to get better by itself; ditch it.

So that's it; be careful, be smart, learn as much as you can about batteries, and vape in good health.

If anyone has more battery safety tips to add, I'd love to hear them. (Is there a battery safety sticky in here, or anywhere?)

Lastly, the VMax is made in China, and the ProVari in the USA. I don't feel terrible about buying the Vmax because I will eventually be getting a Provari V2 as well, (or maybe it will be the V3 by then), and I don't think I would have bought two ProVari's. If you're only planning on having only one of the two, maybe consider giving Provapes your business.

****

Now who wants to talk patents?

 

[skipdashu]

I got black Smok VMax last night and vaped on it until 4am. Yea, it's a Monster!

Switch is better than I expected after seeing the EU reviews... not great but not a total flop. It's like a big version of the little adjust buttons on the LT.

Batteries:
Protected Ultrafires don't fit.
AW IMR 18350s fit best.
Off-brand flat top IMRs fit (with magnet between them).
AW protected ICR 16340s fit (loosely but work).

I don't have a pair of Trustfire 18350s to see of those fit but if they are a true 37mm I doubt they will. My 37.3mm Ultrafires don't even come close. I think the AW IMRs are gonna be the batts for these things until someone finds some other smallish IMRs.

Also BEWARE... When u throw new batts in it the default voltage is reset and it's 5.0v which is a lot with this thing.

After seeing what would fit I dropped the 2 x AW IMR 18350s back in it and used those all night then again this morning. Doing the stupid provari jig to see if we can get to the battery voltage... here we go... starts out first reading 7.1 but jumps around as low as 6.8... so they're getting low but you'd not know it from the hit it's delivering.

I gotta throw in here that the LT's 3 button system or the Buzz & Darwin's dials are both easier to use IMO. Obviously I don't own a Provari so maybe this is a learned thing. I'm also not sure I see the need for a voltage up and a voltage down menu item since going up, 1 click over 6.0v puts you back to 3.0v. Same loop on the voltage down menu. 1 click down from 3.0 puts you to 6.0. So I think they could've eliminated one menu item. Maybe it'll turn out to be convenient when you only wanna go say from 4.0 to 3.9v.

Trying to figure out WHY I seemed to be running really low voltage settings I filled two Boge 3.0 ohm cartos loaded with the same juice. One is mounted to my regulated 5v tin box and the other on the V-Max.

Using a MadVapes in-line voltmeter the tin box reads 5.0v under load (in the past I measured it with my EX-Tech MN36 and got 4.98~4.99v).

Now I'm trying to dial in the same vape on the Smok VMax... I'm at 4.3v right now and trying to decide if I need to drop .1 or not to equal the 5.0v on my tin box (Fairchild KA378R05TU linear regulator).

That's .7v lower to get the my guess at the same vape! Frankly I should've chosen a juice that does this voltage better as in both of them it's at the upper limit for my tastes (Parke's Mounds Candy, 12mg, 80PG/20VG).

I suspect I might occasionally find settings under 3.9 volts actually useful on this thing. That'd be a first for any VV device I've used.

OK, so at this point I realize I didn't check these two "3.0 Ohm" Boges... sure 'nuff the black one (from VMax) reads 2.8 ohms and the SS one reads 3.0 ohms. Wishing I'd matched a pair of them first but they're full of juice now so I'm just gonna switch them.

I'm moving the 2.8 ohm black carto from the VMax over to my strong VV box (OKR 6A switching (everkewl) regulator) with a voltage display. This box has 2 x protected ultrafire 18350s in series. The batteries are reading 8.3v. I dialed it to 4.40v (more normal for me with this juice) no load. Under load (2.8 ohms) it's reading 4.36v.

I put the 3.0 ohm SS carto on the VMax and put some fairly fresh IMRs in it also (these are flat tops and require a magnet between them to make contact but not on either end). These IMR 18350s are each reading 4.21v on the ExTech and on the VMax it jumps around from 8.3~8.1v once u get to that reading. Another jig and we see the VMax reports this carto as being 3.0 ohms, spot on with the meter.

Onward, remembering on my blue VV box I'm at 4.36v with a 2.8 ohm carto. I ended up dialing the VMax to 4.0v using a 3.0 carto to get the same vape. So we cut the gap down but still... jeez what's going on here... playing with the calc this is an average difference of .53v.

Don't know why and haven't thought through the electronics of it yet but I'm sure it has something to do using the pulse width to regulate the voltage. The VMax is really hitting the coil with 8.x volts for a few milliseconds and then 0v and then 8.x volts again to get an average voltage (or RMS voltage) of what it's set to. To raise the voltage it keeps it on the high voltage for a wee bit longer. When the voltage is set lower it shortens the time it's on the high voltage. I'm GUESSING that somehow this results in what feels like a stronger hit at a lower voltage setting. Hmmm, I think I just convinced myself this is the reason. The short off time probably doesn't let the coil completely cool down and then it gets hit with the high voltage again. Be interesting to see if this has any noticeable effect on carto/atty life. Probably not if you run it at a lower voltage setting than you would on a constant voltage mod.

Since this is a stacked battery mod I'll mention that the off-brand IMRs (a bit fatter than the AWs) fit into the tail cap so tight that I don't see how any venting gas could even get to the vent hole in the cap... but that's another story but it seems obvious to me Smok wasn't reading the proposed ECF guidelines.

Overall I think it's a monster. Especially compared to my LT. It's so different from my Buzz I'd have a harder time with that and the prices are closer also. It feels solid, it's heavy. The fire button could have just a wee bit less slop side to side but if it holds up, no biggie. It looks right on the device.

At $128 I probably would've drug my feet for a while to see if somebody ran a sale but when offered one at a Jackson + less I jumped. So far I'm glad I did even though it put a major dent in my 'new Darwin/Buzz/Provari' cookie jar.

l8r, Skip

PS: The spring in the tail cap us just held in with a bit of tension... hit the spring on it's side and it will leave the tail cap... just press it back in. One end seems to stick in better though my old eyes don't see a difference in the two ends of the spring.

 

[skipdashu]

Known good supplier and last I checked a wee bit cheaper than the hound dog.

AW IMR 18350 3.7V 700 mah

 

[John D in CT]

Known good supplier and last I checked a wee bit cheaper than the hound dog.

AW IMR 18350 3.7V 700 mah

Hound dog FTW - $7.50, vs. $7.89; only problem, neither one has it in stock. I wonder if this means the VMax is selling well?

Good thing I got the batteries for my VMax last week.

http://www.lighthound.com/search.asp?keyword=aw+18350&search=GO

 

[carlton]

As far as the device hitting 'harder' is concerned, I have a theory. It's only a theory as I don't have a scope, nor a VMax. But it's possible the device is setting itself for Vavg and not Vrms. The rms value is the one that determines the power of the output and it is generally larger than the average voltage.

I watched the review on youtube where the fellow used the oscilloscope, but some quick, rudimentary math told me that the rms readings on his scope were way, way off.

***
Heck, I took a screenshot. Prepare to be bored out of your skulls.

It appears that the device is putting out a nice and solid, square wave. If the other numbers are to be trusted (iffy), with a duty cycle of 76.1% and a voltage differential of 6.96. The Vrms is 6.07. His scope says 2.80.

Hmm, I guess what I'm really saying is that I don't trust that guy's review. lol

 

[skipdashu]

Hound dog FTW - $7.50, vs. $7.89; only problem, neither one has it in stock. I wonder if this means the VMax is selling well?

Good thing I got the batteries for my VMax last week.

Welcome to Lighthound, Inc. - Cree LED Flashlights, Lithium Batteries, Lithium Ion Batteries, Li-Ion Chargers, LED Flashlights, Leatherman Multitools, Spyderco Knives and more!

Sorry, I didn't re-check... I got a pair from RTD about 3 weeks ago because I'd missed out on the group buy and have a mini LT coming some day. I would of sworn they were cheaper at the time. My mistake.

Speaking of which, anybody in the market for a...

 

[John D in CT]

As far as the device hitting 'harder' is concerned, I have a theory. It's only a theory as I don't have a scope, nor a VMax. But it's possible the device is setting itself for Vavg and not Vrms. The rms value is the one that determines the power of the output and it is generally larger than the average voltage.

I watched the review on youtube where the fellow used the oscilloscope, but some quick, rudimentary math told me that the rms readings on his scope were way, way off.

***
Heck, I took a screenshot. Prepare to be bored out of your skulls.

It appears that the device is putting out a nice and solid, square wave. If the other numbers are to be trusted (iffy), with a duty cycle of 76.1% and a voltage differential of 6.96. The Vrms is 6.07. His scope says 2.80.

Hmm, I guess what I'm really saying is that I don't trust that guy's review. lol

Terrific, now I feel stupid. I hope you're happy. Now how about you just run along and destroy someone else's self-esteem?

Hey VAP, where are you? Can you please translate that for me?

Sorry, I didn't re-check... I got a pair from RTD about 3 weeks ago because I'd missed out on the group buy and have a mini LT coming some day. I would of sworn they were cheaper at the time. My mistake.

Hey, it was damn close, and it's nice to have another trusted supplier to add to the list.

 

[skipdashu]

As far as the device hitting 'harder' is concerned, I have a theory. It's only a theory as I don't have a scope, nor a VMax. But it's possible the device is setting itself for Vavg and not Vrms. The rms value is the one that determines the power of the output and it is generally larger than the average voltage.

I watched the review on youtube where the fellow used the oscilloscope, but some quick, rudimentary math told me that the rms readings on his scope were way, way off.

[picking nose mode ON]
I don't know if this helps or not as I don't remember what my Extech MN36 displays when it sees a square wave... I thought it did RMS. It reads 5.93~5.95v when VMax is set to 6.0v and frequency is jumping around between 580 and 619Hz (both w/o load).

 

[VAPNJ350]

Known good supplier and last I checked a wee bit cheaper than the hound dog.

AW IMR 18350 3.7V 700 mah

RTDvapor is awesome...and AW's ONLY.....another great AW supplier is SUPERTMANUFACTURING, both with cheap shipping. In my opinion the ULTRAFIRE WF-188 is the best IMR charger for the buck. Multiple settings for any and every kind of battery( 3.0,3.2,3.6,3.7..and it has 2 charging cycles,300maH( for a slow overnight charge) and 650maH for that quick 2 hour charge or according to the Mah size battery in it. The trustfire flames 1200maH 18350's DO NOT FIT AT ALL IN THE VMAX...NOT EVEN CLOSE. AW's are about the best battery money can buy, BUT!!!! If you have a 18650 device and you want the absolute best battery on the market today ...GO TO WWW.KALLIESKUSTOMS.COM......they dont have 18350's...YET!!! But they do have the 18650 CGR 3100maH ICR protected, and the 2250maH IMR HIGH DRAIN. Now you will have to see for yourself but their are tests out there that clearly show the all powerful "AW" IMR not holding a candle to the Kallies kustoms CGR18650IMR in continuous amperage output at 10+ amps and a max amperage output that is just plain crazy. But dont take my word for it, spend the money and give 1 a try.

RTD vapor
www.supertmanufacturing.com.....the 2 cheapest and TRUSTED places for ALL AW batts and good chargers,+ cheap cheap shipping.
www.kallieskustoms.com.....the best 18650 ICR and IMR on the market.

 

[VAPNJ350]

[picking nose mode ON]
I don't know if this helps or not as I don't remember what my Extech MN36 displays when it sees a square wave... I thought it did RMS. It reads 5.93~5.95v when VMax is set to 6.0v and frequency is jumping around between 580 and 619Hz (both w/o load).

Im showing it bounce around in the frequency of 648 to 914 (without load) and reads 5.99max 5.97 min . This thing just keeps impressing me day after day. I thought my 3 fistpaks hit hard due to how their internal setup is and how the voltage raises underload,but now that I have this.......dust collectors.

 

[caged]

RTDvapor is awesome...

RTD Vapor is awesome until you need to make a return for a defective product, then he stops returning your e-mails. You do business with him at your own risk.

 

[VAPNJ350]

Terrific, now I feel stupid. I hope you're happy. Now how about you just run along and destroy someone else's self-esteem?

Hey VAP, where are you? Can you please translate that for me?





Hey, it was damn close, and it's nice to have another trusted supplier to add to the list.

John, I think hes right, I went back and watched the video again. His numbers dont add up. BUT!!! Im thinkin he may have it set different than the way I have my scope set. JUST A GUESS. I tried to change the settings on mine to get all the same numbers he did but I havent found the right settings to do so just yet,but I havent given up just yet. My VMAX is even showing a higher frequency too,Im very curious how he has his scope set,and why he didnt want to know the Vrms which is the number that really counts,atleast to me anyway. Good catch carlton !!!!

 

[John D in CT]

Hiya VAP, how goes it?

Hey, I know you've already done a ton of work, but I was wondering if I could rally you one more time .....

I certainly don't expect a lengthy discourse, but is there a way you could give me a quick clue as to what basic electronic testing device I could or should get to expand my capabilities from what my Gardner-Bender multimeter can do, and what practical things I could do with it on my PV's that would be useful.

Things like maybe detecting battery problems before they occur, figuring out how my batteries are draining, detecting impending switch problems, batteries that are losing capacity, stuff like that. And what specific make and model, and just some absolute basic, useful tests to perform, and to keep it easier on you, just which kinds of tests and where I could go to learn more about them?

Thanks 10*6.

 

[skipdashu]

Hiya VAP, how goes it?

...
Things like maybe detecting battery problems before they occur, figuring out how my batteries are draining, detecting impending switch problems, batteries that are losing capacity, stuff like that. And what specific make and model, and just some absolute basic, useful tests to perform, and to keep it easier on you, just which kinds of tests and where I could go to learn more about them?

A thought...

I ordered myself a hobby charger (from China, we'll see when it gets here) so I could a) charge the big batts faster and b) do discharge tests to compare actual mAh capacities. Hoping I can figure it out or find a good tutorial once it actually arrives. For ~$30 it seemed like the cheapest thing I could do to know more about my junk and still have the opportunity to blow stuff up. ;-)

Unfortunately I forgot I'd ordered a TR-005 charger earlier... so kinda duplicated some functionality (big batt fast charging). Maybe I can sell the TR5 in the classifieds when it gets here.

 

[Creniker]

Well that doesn't sound good.

The reason I ask is I have a Mini-Lavatube. I bought my batteries (AW IMR 18350) seperately.

I'm not seeing any real voltage drop. But then again, I vape around 4.2 volts with a 2.8 ohm CE2 and Rarely drain the batteries below 3.5 volts.

Hey zman If you dont notice it its not a big deal. I had the full sized ones from volcano, and I would vape it at 3.8 at first, but as the day went on, I would have to adjust up as I felt my "hits" were getting weaker. I ended up around 4.1, so it wasn't the biggest deal in the world, just irritating. Some other people had the same issue, but maybe its not quite as bad with some of the newer versions of it.