Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

[stols001]

That is ick looking, all my nic is still rather clear, it's either refrigerated or frozen. That stuff looks like tar, if I was vaping it I might pretend to myself that I was getting some MAOIs , you know, just to give myself a little incentive.

Anna

 

[ChelsB]

That is ick looking, all my nic is still rather clear, it's either refrigerated or frozen. That stuff looks like tar, if I was vaping it I might pretend to myself that I was getting some MAOIs , you know, just to give myself a little incentive.

Anna

I'm quite disappointed. I expected more "longevity".
Does anyone have an opinion on whether i should keep this?

 

[GaryInTexas]

I'm quite disappointed. I expected more "longevity".
Does anyone have an opinion on whether i should keep this?

If it was good nic when new I would try a small batch in your recipe and taste it. Might still be useable.

 

[stols001]

If it doesn't taste off... how old is it? I'd probably vape it in RTAs in case the darker color affected or gunked up my wick.... It doesn't look any darker than certain storebought juices I have purchased and you'll be diluting it down right? With DIY stuff comes the "Oh my, is this too old problem," which is why I tend to buy my flavors in very small batches for the most part. I'm just not gonna go through that much the way I flavor.

It's a pickle, but I might vape it as long as it didn't taste awful.... JMO, as always... Although, it doesn't look like a huge bottle, if you have some frozen away, to be on the safe side you could toss it, if it's not going to be a huge deal. Etc.

Anna

 

[ChelsB]

If it doesn't taste off... how old is it? I'd probably vape it in RTAs in case the darker color affected or gunked up my wick.... It doesn't look any darker than certain storebought juices I have purchased and you'll be diluting it down right? With DIY stuff comes the "Oh my, is this too old problem," which is why I tend to buy my flavors in very small batches for the most part. I'm just not gonna go through that much the way I flavor.

It's a pickle, but I might vape it as long as it didn't taste awful.... JMO, as always... Although, it doesn't look like a huge bottle, if you have some frozen away, to be on the safe side you could toss it, if it's not going to be a huge deal. Etc.

Anna

It actually tastes fine. I just don’t like the look of it (and want to be sure it’s not unsafe to vape). But I also don’t want it to go to waste. It’s about 8 months old.
I do have 3 liters safely frozen

 

[DaveP]

It actually tastes fine. I just don’t like the look of it (and want to be sure it’s not unsafe to vape). But I also don’t want it to go to waste. It’s about 8 months old.
I do have 3 liters safely frozen

It's just oxidation over time. It's a little dark for 8 months in age. My posted pic of my nic after rebottling in glass after 14 months was a deep shade of amber, but still clear enough to see through.

Oxidation doesn't hurt nic. It's a natural process of aging. If it tastes good, then vape it.

I mixed up three 100ml bottles of 3mg/ml unflavored two days ago from my 14 month old oxidized nic. It's clear as water in the 100ml mix, but was a dark honey color in the pipette as I measured it out.

 

[DaveP]

Dang! Double post ...

 

[DaveP]

Nic that’s 8 months old. Never refrigerated or frozen, but always kept out of light. It’s painfully obvious how important it is to keep it cool!

I'll bet that your nic in a glass bottle backlit by a window during the day would look like mine. If you look closely you can see a distorted pattern from the towel holder and the sink edge through the liquid in the bottle (showing some clarity in the dark liquid). Those LDPE bottles don't show true color and they show no transparency at all.

 

[Katya]

Oxidation doesn't hurt nic. It's a natural process of aging. If it tastes good, then vape it.

Agreed. Per DVap (a chemist and WTA inventor):

"Really, we're talking about oxidation, and one thing oxidation isn't going to do is destroy the pyridine ring or the pyrollidine ring in the nicotine molecule. (snip)

I could turn it around and ask you about vaping fresh clean nicotine liquid at 24 mg. Does it bother anyone that the actual nicotine concentration once vaporized in the atty might drop down considerably below 24 mg due to oxidation in the atty. Nope.. and it doesn't bother me. I suspect that the oxidation products will be similarly as active as nicotine, more or less."

Can't find his most recent posts because the search engine is still wonky, but DVap has always claimed that most rapid oxidation occurs during the evaporation process in the atty, anyway.

 

[Katya]

Does anyone have an opinion on whether i should keep this?

In the future, store your nic in dark (amber or cobalt) glass bottles, preferably frozen.

Heat, ultraviolet light and oxygen are your (well, your nic's) enemies.

 

[sofarsogood]

I've mentioned previously that I got a box of cigars many moons ago and didn't get around to smoking the last few until 10 years later. My recollection is they were fine. You can find pipe smoker forums where people describe tobacco staying good to smoke for many years if stored in sealed tins, and no talk of freezing. If nic can persist for years in tobacco why not suspended in PG in a freezer or may be even not in a freezer?

 

[DaveP]

In the future, store your nic in dark (amber or cobalt) glass bottles, preferably frozen.

Heat, ultraviolet light and oxygen are your (well, your nic's) enemies.

I agree. OTOH, if it's kept in a box with the flaps closed it's probably safe from light oxidation in a freezer. I chose to buy clear glass bottles just because I wanted to be able to monitor color change in my frozen stash. What I keep out for mixing is kept in a closed cabinet in a clear Boston Round bottle where it's protected from light except when I'm doing a DIY mix session. If I were worried about oxidation I could wrap it or box it between sessions.

I'm with you in that brown or blue bottles are the ultimate protection against light oxidation.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

It actually tastes fine. I just don’t like the look of it (and want to be sure it’s not unsafe to vape). But I also don’t want it to go to waste. It’s about 8 months old.
I do have 3 liters safely frozen

If it tastes fine when you vape it, and there is no smell, (other than like a cigarette)then I would use it up. Like Dave said, once its mixed up you probably won't see any darkening. Believe me, if it was bad, you would not need to ask anyone. The smell of bad nic is hard to get away from. It lingers on everything it has touched. So be prepared to get rid lids, etc. Hard to describe, but very potent awful smell. Reminds me of a cow pasture or being in a barn with wet hay and the stalls need cleaned.

oh and you can use the bad nic as an outdoor pest control. Once it dries, it becomes harmless to pets and people.

 

[r77r7r]

I just looked in the box in my closet that has several bottles from mid '11, the MFS One is fairly clear yet. All other test samples from different manufacturers are fairly amber.

 

[r77r7r]

Nic that’s 8 months old. Never refrigerated or frozen, but always kept out of light. It’s painfully obvious how important it is to keep it cool!

For the first few yrs vaping, I filled 7-30ml bottles and kept them in my desk drawer in my office. At 30ml per week then that was several months @ room temp, albeit dark, and they were all clear.

Good nic from a lab ( wizards), not something like that $50 MFS stuff. Altho many like it.

 

[coldgin96]

not something like that $50 MFS stuff.

Not hearing a lot of good things about them lately...

 

[r77r7r]

Not hearing a lot of good things about them lately...

I may have made an unkind assumption . Just always seemed like they bought bulk and sold cheap to drive people there. They are a vaping goods supplier, not a lab. I quickly ceased buying diy supplies from those types.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Here's a shot of what's left from one of the first bottles of nic I bought more than four years ago:

Here's a shot of the label, showing the born on date:

This bottle has never been frozen, and neither have it's two unopened sister bottles. I bought four in that 2013 order and I've used one completely. The two sisters and another three bottles from then RTS are at the other house, but when I checked on them in September they looked about like this.

I used about 10ml of the bottle shown above for a batch of Peach Cobbler last weekend. It's fantastic.

I bought a seventh bottle from Wizard Labs last summer and it's here in the same ol' dark, room temp box as the MBV stuff.

 

[Fozzy71]

Nic that’s 8 months old. Never refrigerated or frozen, but always kept out of light. It’s painfully obvious how important it is to keep it cool!

yikes. I keep a 120ml working bottle out in a clear plastic bottle but the bottle gets wrapped in a black plastic bag and put in a cabinet, in my cool cement block basement. The last one I killed from Nude, that was easily 9 months old or older, barely had any color change. The current 120ml in rotation is from MFS so I will be curious to see how it looks when there is only 20 or 30ml left in it.

 

[DaveP]

This bottle has never been frozen, and neither have it's two unopened sister bottles. I bought four in that 2013 order and I've used one completely. The two sisters and another three bottles from then RTS are at the other house, but when I checked on them in September they looked about like this.

I used about 10ml of the bottle shown above for a batch of Peach Cobbler last weekend. It's fantastic.

I bought a seventh bottle from Wizard Labs last summer and it's here in the same ol' dark, room temp box as the MBV stuff.

My nic came from MFS in summer 2016 and right before I bottled it recently it looked like yours in the LDPE bottle it came in. After pouring into clear glass bottles it was a much deeper orange. That was surprising to me. I guess the LDPE tones down the shade a bit when you are looking through the plastic.

I sense no difference in the vape from oxidation. It's very smooth at 3mg mix strength. I suppose if I were to mix up a batch of 24mg I'd sense much more throat hit. It's probably a good thing that I don't vape 24mg anymore.

I probably should buy a small bottle of fresh nic for comparison in the vape quality. That might be interesting as an experiment. Can't hurt to have a little more for Deeming protection.

 

[440BB]

If I was intending to speed up oxidation of my nic concentrate, I would:

- use LDPE bottles, as they are the most porous
- open and use some periodically, introducing more and more oxygen
- keep it at room temperature, allowing plenty of molecular activity

That's what I did with my first 120ml bottle of nic I bought from Good Prophets in 2012. It was brown/amber within about nine months.

I've used full bottles, non-ldpe plastic and glass, stored in the freezer ever since. Virtually no tint, smell or taste after three+ years.

Based on what I've seen in Rossum's experiment as well as Kurt's thoughts, temperature is the primary issue, the colder the better. Headroom and container porosity are next, then light.