Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

[Rossum]

Nic that’s 8 months old. Never refrigerated or frozen, but always kept out of light. It’s painfully obvious how important it is to keep it cool!

What strength is that? I'm confident that the stronger the nic is, the darker it will appear for a given level of oxidation. If that's 100mg, it shouldn't be compared to, say Coastal's 36mg:

Here's a shot of what's left from one of the first bottles of nic I bought more than four years ago:

 

[Rossum]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Rossum]

If I was intending to speed up oxidation of my nic concentrate, I would:

- use LDPE bottles, as they are the most porous
- open and use some periodically, introducing more and more oxygen
- keep it at room temperature, allowing plenty of molecular activity

Agreed. I've never had nic base in LDPE bottles but the first B&M that I bought juice from used them, and that juice always seemed to darken faster than the second B&M that became my go-to for a while, who sold all their juice in glass. Now I realize flavorings play a role in this too, so I'm probably comparing apples to oranges, but I pretty much swore off LDPE for storing anything.

 

[ChelsB]

What strength is that? I'm confident that the stronger the nic is, the darker it will appear for a given level of oxidation. If that's 100mg, it shouldn't be compared to, say Coastal's 36mg:

Yep, it’s 100 mg

 

[ChelsB]

Agreed. I've never had nic base in LDPE bottles but the first B&M that I bought juice from used them, and that juice always seemed to darken faster than the second B&M that became my go-to for a while, who sold all their juice in glass. Now I realize flavorings play a role in this too, so I'm probably comparing apples to oranges, but I pretty much swore off LDPE for storing anything.

All of mine is stored in Amber glass. That’s what I’d just poured in to my working bottle (I use the plastic as my working bottle ). So I had no idea it had gotten that dark until I refilled my working bottle

 

[Rossum]

All of mine is stored in Amber glass. That’s what I’d just poured in to my working bottle (I use the plastic as my working bottle ). So I had no idea it had gotten that dark until I refilled my working bottle

Oh, sorry; it seems I mis-understood.

 

[ChelsB]

Oh, sorry; it seems I mis-understood.

Nah, you didn’t misunderstand. I should’ve been more specific

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

What strength is that? I'm confident that the stronger the nic is, the darker it will appear for a given level of oxidation. If that's 100mg, it shouldn't be compared to, say Coastal's 36mg:

Makes sense. More nic in solution would mean more to oxidize.

 

[ChelsB]

Makes sense. More nic in solution would mean more to oxidize.

I bought 100 mg to get more bang for my buck and because I was worried about future procurement of nic. I’m regretting buying such high strength! I figured if I kept it in a wooden box, it would be ok for at least a year.
Oh, and it’s nic from MFS

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

I bought 100 mg to get more bang for my buck and because I was worried about future procurement of nic. I’m regretting buying such high strength! I figured if I kept it in a wooden box, it would be ok for at least a year.
Oh, and it’s nic from MFS

Mehh... I wouldn't worry about it. The only thing that's changed significantly is the color of my juice. Neither flavor nor nic effect are noticeably different. If you were to cut 100mg/ml with enough PG or VG to make it 36mg/ml, it would probably look, taste and kick just like mine does.

 

[Rossum]

Makes sense. More nic in solution would mean more to oxidize.

I'm thinking of it in terms of percentage. In other words if 1% of 100 mg oxidizes, you've got 0.1% oxidized nic in that solution, while if 1% of 36mg oxidizes, you've got 0.036% of oxidized nic in that solution, and the former will appear darker than the latter.

 

[ChelsB]

I'm thinking of it in terms of percentage. In other words if 1% of 100 mg oxidizes, you've got 0.1% oxidized nic in that solution, while if 1% of 36mg oxidizes, you've got 0.036% of oxidized nic in that solution, and the former will appear darker than the latter.

Does it ever get to the point of being so oxidized that it becomes unsafe?

 

[Rossum]

Mehh... I wouldn't worry about it. The only thing that's changed significantly is the color of my juice. Neither flavor nor nic effect are noticeably different. If you were to cut 100mg/ml with enough PG or VG to make it 36mg/ml, it would probably look, taste and kick just like mine does.

I think the acceptability is going to vary from person to person, and also with how much (and what kind of) flavorings they use.

As someone who vapes a whole lot of unflavored and uses mostly unsweetened fruit flavorings in very low amounts when I do vape flavored, I can tell you I'm not a fan of oxidized nic.

OTOH, some folks who favor tobacco flavors actually prefer their nic a bit oxidized.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

I'm thinking of it in terms of percentage. In other words if 1% of 100 mg oxidizes, you've got 0.1% oxidized nic in that solution, while if 1% of 36mg oxidizes, you've got 0.036% of oxidized nic in that solution, and the former will appear darker than the latter.

Me, too. I think we're saying the same thing. Higher concentration = more nic molecules per milliliter = more opportunities for Oxygen to work its magic.

 

[Rossum]

Does it ever get to the point of being so oxidized that it becomes unsafe?

"Unsafe". How do we define this?

My sense is: No, it would taste horrible long before it became problematic, but I'm not a chemist.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

I think the acceptability is going to vary from person to person, and also with how much (and what kind of) flavorings they use.

As someone who vapes a whole lot of unflavored and uses mostly unsweetened fruit flavorings in very low amounts when I do vape flavored, I can tell you I'm not a fan of oxidized nic.

OTOH, some folks who favor tobacco flavors actually prefer their nic a bit oxidized.

Yeah, as long as I like my result and you like yours and everybody else likes theirs, we're all happy vapers.

 

[ChelsB]

"Unsafe". How do we define this?

My sense is: No, it would taste horrible long before it became problematic, but I'm not a chemist.

Yeah, as long as I like my result and you like yours and everybody else likes theirs, we're all happy vapers.

Ok, great, that’s what I needed reassurance on. If it’s simply a matter of aesthetics, then I’ll let it go. I just won’t use that nic for juice I put in my new painted tank glass (you can’t see the design with such dark liquid).
I never vape unflavored, in fact I prefer recipes with VERY high flavoring percentages (20-24%), so I’m probably safe with that masking any “bad” flavor from the nic.

 

[Rossum]

Yeah, as long as I like my result and you like yours and everybody else likes theirs, we're all happy vapers.

Right, in the here and now, where if nic gets too far oxidized, we can just buy more, and a year's supply of nic costs less than what many of us would spend on a carton of smokes in the past.

But what happens if/when the FDA decides that the era of free-flowing nic is over? At that point, we become dependent on whatever we've got in our stockpiles, and the question this thread attempts to answer is: Does it really make a difference how you store it?

So far the answer seems to be rather unequivocal: Colder is better. The question of plastic vs. glass seems to be less obvious, at least when the plastic is PET.

I think this information is may be useful even for those who do like their nic somewhat oxidized, because I suspect there's a point where you might decide: "Ick, this is too far gone". So better to do what you can to keep it fresh until you're somewhat close to using it. At that time you can always oxidize it to the point that you like it best, but I don't think there's any practical way to revive it once it's gone too far.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Ok, great, that’s what I needed reassurance on. If it’s simply a matter of aesthetics, then I’ll let it go. I just won’t use that nic for juice I put in my new painted tank glass (you can’t see the design with such dark liquid).
I never vape unflavored, in fact I prefer recipes with VERY high flavoring percentages (20-24%), so I’m probably safe with that masking any “bad” flavor from the nic.

You and I are probably a lot alike. I happen to really like coil-gunking juices because they taste so good. I got back into rebuildable atomizers because I got tired of eventually having to replace coil heads. Now with a quick burn off and rewick, I can go back to those decadently flavored treats that helped me quit smoking. At either 3- or 6mg juice, the color and flavor of the nic solution aren't a big deal.

 

[ChelsB]

You and I are probably a lot alike. I happen to really like coil-gunking juices because they taste so good. I got back into rebuildable atomizers because I got tired of eventually having to replace coil heads. Now with a quick burn off and rewick, I can go back to those decadently flavored treats that helped me quit smoking. At either 3- or 6mg juice, the color and flavor of the nic solution aren't a big deal.

Agreed. My ADV gunks up after only 4ml of juice!!!!! So rebuilding is essential for my pocket book!!