Non-Smokers who don't think you quit because you vape.
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tl;dr: it might take a while for non-smokers to notice "that you are still alive" (ie. after vaping for most of your life) & perhaps begin to think that "vaping may be not as bad as cigarettes after all".
I think it is a generational sort of thing - In other words, I believe new generations maybe more likely to pickup vaping (ie. skipping cigarettes as a whole) while old generations (of cigarettes smokers) slowly die off, pickup vaping or quit (with "ex-smoking vapers" like many of us in the middle).
Assuming most people here are "ex-smoking vapers", it is up to us and the new generations (of vapers) pushing for change, educate those around us and get as many smokers as possible into vaping (like gifting vaping gear to our smoking friends and family!).
In short, I believe that in a couple of decades or so, smoking may disappear (or become mostly banned) while vaping may become slightly more morally acceptable (ie. the "new norm").
I think it is a generational sort of thing - In other words, I believe new generations maybe more likely to pickup vaping (ie. skipping cigarettes as a whole) while old generations (of cigarettes smokers) slowly die off, pickup vaping or quit (with "ex-smoking vapers" like many of us in the middle).
Assuming most people here are "ex-smoking vapers", it is up to us and the new generations (of vapers) pushing for change, educate those around us and get as many smokers as possible into vaping (like gifting vaping gear to our smoking friends and family!).
In short, I believe that in a couple of decades or so, smoking may disappear (or become mostly banned) while vaping may become slightly more morally acceptable (ie. the "new norm").
And sadly now one of our friends has become the enemy, and may have been all along. "The Truth" now making claims that vaping is worse than smoking. Doing that with absolutely no evidence to back it up is fraud and they need to be called out on it. Someone else needs to do this one, I'm old and tired and sick of the fight.
It's this BS that has had me become a total recluse even online at this point. The amount of ignorance worldwide just baffles me, and not just about vaping. I'm actually glad I'm nearing my endtime as this world is turning into a total cesspool of hate and ignorance. Political correctness is way out of control. Humankind is not only killing nature but itself as well. My generation has been warning everyone for decades yet no one listens. Mother Nature needs to send us back to the stone age where we belong.
It's been a very bad year but I have my dog (Destiny, my new avatar) and she is my best friend. The dog in my avatar(Peanutt) passed away at 17 yo on 12-16-18. I also lost her husband (Merlynn) on 4-22-18. I miss both of them more than any human.
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My father quit smoking just after my sister was born, in 1978; two years before I was born.
I quit smoking & started vaping last April. I remember telling my dad sometime around the 2 month mark, "Wow, I can't believe I quit smoking two months ago already!"
He responded, "Well, you haven't really quit, though."
Now, I can't argue that I'm still ingesting nicotine. But at that point I had already reduced the nicotine level of my e-liquid to 3mg/ml, which is where I still am today. So yes, I'm still ingesting some nicotine when I vape.
But I don't feel I'm necessarily still addicted to nicotine; at least not like I was while smoking cigarettes.
Most importantly, vaping is NOT smoking. I explained to him the difference between the combustion of tobacco leaves & vaporization of e-liquid, & I told him I would argue to the death that I had indeed quit smoking.
A couple people have made some eloquent points on this thread about how the misinformed conflate nicotine ingestion & smoking, & that's a great point. Because my dad did exactly that until I explained to him exactly how vaping works. Then he understood that yes, I'd quit smoking.
I work at a local grocery store & often have to sell cigarettes to people. I never once have considered buying a pack for myself, even when handling packs day after day.
When I've mentioned vaping to customers, more than a few have said, "I heard vaping is actually worse for you than smoking."
If you really wasn't to get me started, say this to me as a smoker. I'll definitely set you straight.
I have several times cited the 2017 joint study done by both the University of Catania in Italy & UCLA on the effects of everyday vaping in non-smokers over a 3.5 year period. I'm sure many of you know that at the very least they found "no significant differences" in blood pressure, cardiovascular function, & pulmonary function in the test subjects from the beginning to end of the study.
I remind them to please research carefully before jumping to such conclusions that would prevent them from considering vaping as an alternative to smoking.
Even without the study, you have at least one anecdotal testimony for vaping in my experience. If vaping is worse than smoking, then why have I stopped coughing up brown goo in the morning, have an improved speaking & singing voice, improved ability to taste, increased libido & energy, among other improvements in my well-being?
These are all some of the reasons I've become so passionate about vaping in such a short time, even going so far as to start a YouTube review channel.
I love it so much, & if more people could stop smoking, they'd feel so much better & likely live longer.
I quit smoking & started vaping last April. I remember telling my dad sometime around the 2 month mark, "Wow, I can't believe I quit smoking two months ago already!"
He responded, "Well, you haven't really quit, though."
Now, I can't argue that I'm still ingesting nicotine. But at that point I had already reduced the nicotine level of my e-liquid to 3mg/ml, which is where I still am today. So yes, I'm still ingesting some nicotine when I vape.
But I don't feel I'm necessarily still addicted to nicotine; at least not like I was while smoking cigarettes.
Most importantly, vaping is NOT smoking. I explained to him the difference between the combustion of tobacco leaves & vaporization of e-liquid, & I told him I would argue to the death that I had indeed quit smoking.
A couple people have made some eloquent points on this thread about how the misinformed conflate nicotine ingestion & smoking, & that's a great point. Because my dad did exactly that until I explained to him exactly how vaping works. Then he understood that yes, I'd quit smoking.
I work at a local grocery store & often have to sell cigarettes to people. I never once have considered buying a pack for myself, even when handling packs day after day.
When I've mentioned vaping to customers, more than a few have said, "I heard vaping is actually worse for you than smoking."
If you really wasn't to get me started, say this to me as a smoker. I'll definitely set you straight.
I have several times cited the 2017 joint study done by both the University of Catania in Italy & UCLA on the effects of everyday vaping in non-smokers over a 3.5 year period. I'm sure many of you know that at the very least they found "no significant differences" in blood pressure, cardiovascular function, & pulmonary function in the test subjects from the beginning to end of the study.
I remind them to please research carefully before jumping to such conclusions that would prevent them from considering vaping as an alternative to smoking.
Even without the study, you have at least one anecdotal testimony for vaping in my experience. If vaping is worse than smoking, then why have I stopped coughing up brown goo in the morning, have an improved speaking & singing voice, improved ability to taste, increased libido & energy, among other improvements in my well-being?
These are all some of the reasons I've become so passionate about vaping in such a short time, even going so far as to start a YouTube review channel.
I love it so much, & if more people could stop smoking, they'd feel so much better & likely live longer.
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I think the stigma from smoking to vaping is that many see our "smoke" as smoke vs vapor. If a non-smoker sees a cloud of vapor then it's still smoking to them. False. It's not being educated enough on this plus the propoganda being spread about health risks. There are none with the exception of maybe Popcorn Lung, which is rare.
Turning point for me was my father kept saying I had not quit and it was just another habit. Then my surgeon which ended up being his, congratulated me on getting away from analogs. Dad turned around and said it's still smoking. Doctor came back and told him that it was not. He approved of my approach to get off cigarettes completely and if I vaped, he was good with it. Same doctor saved my life. If the doctor had been disheartened with my choice after two surgeries and several hours of operation he would have said it. He's that brassy and quick tongued. Dad, well he's now happy and not saying that I still smoke. He's advocating every smoker these days to vape.
This is what we need more of. Those moments like that. Even the fact that the hospital that is so against tobacco on property allows you to vape right outside the front door. Wow moment indeed!
Turning point for me was my father kept saying I had not quit and it was just another habit. Then my surgeon which ended up being his, congratulated me on getting away from analogs. Dad turned around and said it's still smoking. Doctor came back and told him that it was not. He approved of my approach to get off cigarettes completely and if I vaped, he was good with it. Same doctor saved my life. If the doctor had been disheartened with my choice after two surgeries and several hours of operation he would have said it. He's that brassy and quick tongued. Dad, well he's now happy and not saying that I still smoke. He's advocating every smoker these days to vape.
This is what we need more of. Those moments like that. Even the fact that the hospital that is so against tobacco on property allows you to vape right outside the front door. Wow moment indeed!
I think a large portion of people's reaction to vaping has to do with media portrayal and general paranoia of new things. People don't like change and tend to react adversely to it regardless of whether it is good or bad.
I've learned over time to ignore people who have opinions on things that they know nothing about or haven't put in the time to research.
My first failed attempt at quiting smoking with vaping was partially due to feeling like vaping was less socially exeptable. I got more crap for vaping than I did when I was a smoker. Ultimately though it's your life. If you feel that you've accomplished something by switching from smoking to vaping, there's no reason to allow anyone to take that away from you.
I've learned over time to ignore people who have opinions on things that they know nothing about or haven't put in the time to research.
My first failed attempt at quiting smoking with vaping was partially due to feeling like vaping was less socially exeptable. I got more crap for vaping than I did when I was a smoker. Ultimately though it's your life. If you feel that you've accomplished something by switching from smoking to vaping, there's no reason to allow anyone to take that away from you.
Yes voluntarily decided it after having been factually threatened to do so.
Sorry for your loss. Yes political correctness has become the superlative of hypocrisy here in Belgium especially also, which some gleefully misspell as hypocracy to convey the message that it truly is fake democracy. An example. A few days ago on our national TV channel, some pretentious politician suggested that we have an "alarmist" type mentality trend going on because he thought there's a growing number of people who overestimate (according to this politician) the problem of air pollution, as (also according to him) the measurement statistics show that air quality has been improving for the past several many years. After he was confronted with the notion that this doesn't apply to some areas in our country, he refused to admit his obvious mistake about that. Meanwhile, vaping in indoor public places, INCLUDING IN VAPE SHOPS, remains legally banned in Belgium despite both Royal College of Physicians and a careful analysis study of air quality in vape shops in the US where vaping is still allowed clearly suggest this ban is heavily overreaching, and so the reality is that this ban is the result of an alarmist hypocritical political knee-jerk reaction and that ESSENTIALLY PROMOTES COMBUSTIBLE TOBACCO.
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The phrase "Haters are gonna hate" is true, but is also nuanced.
I find ignorant, uneducated haters are the most hateful by a huge margin. Educated haters who have at least done a bit of digging to get an overview about what they hate are largely less vitriolic... although they still hate. And it's OK to hate if you are educated about what you hate I guess, but at least discourse with these types might prove useful... and maybe not. But it won't be the same level of absurdity as trying to have a reasonable conversation with an ignorant hater.
My advise is at the start of a conversation with either of these types of folks try to get an idea of ignorance (with the ignorant type this will be obvious within 30 seconds or less). Once determined just stop any conversation with the ignorant hater. It will always end up in frustration and very likely anger. Just not worth it.
I find ignorant, uneducated haters are the most hateful by a huge margin. Educated haters who have at least done a bit of digging to get an overview about what they hate are largely less vitriolic... although they still hate. And it's OK to hate if you are educated about what you hate I guess, but at least discourse with these types might prove useful... and maybe not. But it won't be the same level of absurdity as trying to have a reasonable conversation with an ignorant hater.
My advise is at the start of a conversation with either of these types of folks try to get an idea of ignorance (with the ignorant type this will be obvious within 30 seconds or less). Once determined just stop any conversation with the ignorant hater. It will always end up in frustration and very likely anger. Just not worth it.
I think you are mistaking "education on the subject" with overall IQ, honestly. The analogy kind of works though, because most folks who are not so cognitive are more likely to hate something based on a very small subsection of information.
They also band together, like lemmings, like facebook groups, like MADD. MADD was pretty rabid back in it's day, and I'm not saying they didn't do some good, but they also ruined some lives, early on. They band together and advocate.
I see the anti vape movement as just like MADD, honestly. They will have to settle themselves at some point but really some anti you get the sense that they want to lock you up. And yeah, if you run over my kid, I'd probably be upset, but like, I don't think it's right to lock someone up for vaping and running over a kid, unless the vape were somehow involved.
Like you drippers and drivers.. LOL. Never got that one..
But the whole thing, it's just, it's just silly really. You can't even make a real MADD analogy because like, seriously, vaping is just so harmless compared to drunk driving. At least MADD HAD a point, I have yet to achieve a point from the antiz, other than "you are harming yourself."
Last I checked, that is totally not illegal. Suicide is illegal, not self harm. It's just really, really hard to prosecute successfully. Sorry to make light of that law, but it is true.
Anna
They also band together, like lemmings, like facebook groups, like MADD. MADD was pretty rabid back in it's day, and I'm not saying they didn't do some good, but they also ruined some lives, early on. They band together and advocate.
I see the anti vape movement as just like MADD, honestly. They will have to settle themselves at some point but really some anti you get the sense that they want to lock you up. And yeah, if you run over my kid, I'd probably be upset, but like, I don't think it's right to lock someone up for vaping and running over a kid, unless the vape were somehow involved.
Like you drippers and drivers.. LOL. Never got that one..
But the whole thing, it's just, it's just silly really. You can't even make a real MADD analogy because like, seriously, vaping is just so harmless compared to drunk driving. At least MADD HAD a point, I have yet to achieve a point from the antiz, other than "you are harming yourself."
Last I checked, that is totally not illegal. Suicide is illegal, not self harm. It's just really, really hard to prosecute successfully. Sorry to make light of that law, but it is true.
Anna
I asked a colleague who has an occasional cigar what he thinks of vaping. I asked this particular fellow because as a rule he is a very logical person.
He said "inhaling a foreign substance on purpose is inhaling a foreign substance on purpose be it tobacco smoke or nicotine vapor." I retorted "do think vaping is smoking?"
He replied "while the reason for inhaling a foreign substance may vary, it still holds true it is nevertheless inhaling a foreign substance". I said "but is that the same as smoking?"
He replied "sometimes things are given a generic term that the masses end up latching onto". I replied "such as?" His response "is that a genuine Band Aid by Johnson and Johnson wrapped around your thumb or another brand of adhesive strip we generically call a Band Aid?"
I smiled at that response and replied "nuf said" as I sipped a sports drink affectionatly called "gatorade" even though it was another brand.
He said "inhaling a foreign substance on purpose is inhaling a foreign substance on purpose be it tobacco smoke or nicotine vapor." I retorted "do think vaping is smoking?"
He replied "while the reason for inhaling a foreign substance may vary, it still holds true it is nevertheless inhaling a foreign substance". I said "but is that the same as smoking?"
He replied "sometimes things are given a generic term that the masses end up latching onto". I replied "such as?" His response "is that a genuine Band Aid by Johnson and Johnson wrapped around your thumb or another brand of adhesive strip we generically call a Band Aid?"
I smiled at that response and replied "nuf said" as I sipped a sports drink affectionatly called "gatorade" even though it was another brand.
Do you think that logic will ever return to high schools as a required subject? Sometimes I think that the emotional bilge that has passed for discourse in the last forty years can be traced to the elimination of logic from the required curriculum of high schools.
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Logic and teenagers in the same room?
Too late for that.
Blame the people who voted hippies into power.
Too late for that.
Blame the people who voted hippies into power.
I was required to take Logic as part of my college philosophy major (I went to Swarthmore, they're rigorous.)
We dissected Spinoza's proof of God and it was SO MUCH FUN.
I will say, I could argue before (I was in debate club, I loved, it and yes I was a hopeless loser but at least I could look down on the spelling bee kids, hehe) but AFTERWARDS??
You do me wrong, I will crush you. I mean, not here were politeness rules (usually) but I have made my mother cry from time to time by taking her argument and just dissecting it to pieces.
I have learned to stop that, and actually, despite Spinoza's failed proof I adore him for taking the time to do it, he really WANTED it to work.
He almost managed to prove that all matter is the same, but he "finessed" a couple proofs, sadly and by that I mean cheated. LOL.
I also believe in God but I also believe that is a personal CHOICE of faith, and I will also say that all arguments are based on axioms and that includes Science. I consider Science a religion, like any other philosophical method that rests on unproven axioms. The fact that we can observe something repeatedly does not make it "true." If you are getting into like, higher logic then you have to accept that logic itself is a construct.
Be that as it may, since we all seem to exist in the same sort of universe, yeah, bring on the arguing I SAY.
I didn't do logic but I had this wacky childhood where I grew up all over. I also went to Montessori school and that is heavily focused on provability via exploration of the known universe or school. I was a good student and they put me on the cover of their brochure. LOLZ.
Anna
We dissected Spinoza's proof of God and it was SO MUCH FUN.
I will say, I could argue before (I was in debate club, I loved, it and yes I was a hopeless loser but at least I could look down on the spelling bee kids, hehe) but AFTERWARDS??
You do me wrong, I will crush you. I mean, not here were politeness rules (usually) but I have made my mother cry from time to time by taking her argument and just dissecting it to pieces.
I have learned to stop that, and actually, despite Spinoza's failed proof I adore him for taking the time to do it, he really WANTED it to work.
He almost managed to prove that all matter is the same, but he "finessed" a couple proofs, sadly and by that I mean cheated. LOL.
I also believe in God but I also believe that is a personal CHOICE of faith, and I will also say that all arguments are based on axioms and that includes Science. I consider Science a religion, like any other philosophical method that rests on unproven axioms. The fact that we can observe something repeatedly does not make it "true." If you are getting into like, higher logic then you have to accept that logic itself is a construct.
Be that as it may, since we all seem to exist in the same sort of universe, yeah, bring on the arguing I SAY.
I didn't do logic but I had this wacky childhood where I grew up all over. I also went to Montessori school and that is heavily focused on provability via exploration of the known universe or school. I was a good student and they put me on the cover of their brochure. LOLZ.
Anna
Settled science generally gets rather upset when some character like Copernicus, Galileo or Einstein comes along and messes stuff up.
Actually, Copernicus and Galileo were more a problem for religion and the church than
science.
As to Einstein his ideas were already being worked out by others who were pretty keen to jump on board. It was Einstein's simple appearing equation (avoiding general relativity as a separate theory) that got close to 10% of the US National industrial production capacity during a world war focused on creating something not proven in a real world sense to work, which, well, sure blew up as expected.
Then again Einstein thought quantum physics was just plain nuts so there you go. We all have some bias.
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