Not Good News

[maxx]

It's NOT the FDA budget that is being protected....it's the budgets of the states and feds that is being protected. The FDA is just the mechanism.

The government (state and fed) is losing at least a million dollars a day because of e-cigs. Let me say that again, since it sounds vaguely important....a million dollars per day! That's an estimate I am making based on average excise and sales taxes that e-cig users are no longer paying, over 200,000 users averaging two packs per day. And it gets larger everyday as more people learn about them. Even if the number is not exactly correct, we are still talking about a boatload of cash here...and the government is hemmoraging it. It is a financial crisis since anti-smokers have done a fine job of addicting this country to tobacco tax dollars.

Now IMO....the government (yes that includes the FDA) has a two-phase approach here. First...stop the bleeding, and that means banning on federal and state levels. The second phase will be the return of the e-cig (years from now) manufactured by BT and taxed to the level of analogs.

 

[jeffree]

Perhaps off topic, but "socialism" has sort of become slang for big government even if it isn't always entirely accurate. It blows my mind in general how a country founded on the ideals of freedom has come to where we are today.

I definitely understand, and the pending e-cig legislation pisses me off as much as anyone. All of us here know there's nothing noble about such legislation, and I'll continue to be a part of any campaigns ("The Vapor Party?") that fight for our individual vaping rights.

My hot button is simply, as you mention, the inaccurate labeling that arises in any such disagreement. That helps nobody. In fact, I think using such labels can end the possibility of discussion by throwing something in the corner with anything else that produces a knee-jerk negative reaction. There are many shades of gray between black and white.

I watched an interview recently that included people calling for a return to true "American" (non-socialist) ideals: no more social security, no more medicare, no more public police force or car insurance mandates, and on and on. Even though I disagreed with most of what they said, I had to respect those folks at least for their consistency. They weren't just cherry picking to make a point. I'm not seeing that from many of the folks crying "socialist!" about one thing or another, especially from those folks who seem to have little understanding that socialism isn't an absolute. That's all I'm sayin.

 

[aubergine]

Please assume that some in here who are outraged re the ecig issue are staunch supporters of Obama and even universal, nationalized health care, w/no inconsistency of view re this issue, and that some are Republicans who feel that the current admin. and its legislation is a socialist atrocity, also w/no inconsistency of view here; some are probably libertarians, some are probably anarchists, maybe even an old Marxist in here and an old John Bircher. And hundreds of subcategories and non-categories within each political POV.

The case for e-cig liberation can be argued for coherently and congruently from within any general political position.

I will beg OPs to close this thread if it becomes a forum for casually hurling political talking-point insults as though one's own general political views were universally held here. This is no place for that sort of rant. There's a whole internet for that. This is the V4L forum, and it's an especially warm, mutually supportive and open place, around a common interest.

Divisive politics are not germane, or helpful to the issue at hand.

 

[MechTechVpr]

Did not mean to start a political debate (argument) here…
While it helps to understand the motivation/philosophy of your opponent, the real topic here should be: what can we (a group of like minded people, as far as PVs are concerned) do about a willfully ignorant (well put stephra) entity/agency/governing body, that has the ability and desire( power, lack of responsibility, lack of over-site, hidden agenda...or what ever you classify it as) to deny citizens (us) access to a product that has not been proven harmful.

We can argue the point that it is a better alternative to an “allowed” product till we are all blue, but we know that point is being ignored. We can argue that it is not intended as a remedy, cure, or therapy for addiction (even if it is) all day …also being ignored ….

We can argue the precedence of the alternative being virtually unregulated (albeit taxed to what should be its death, but isn’t) while the healthier option (by default of not having known carcinogens) is being barred from comparison …I don’t understand it but …ignored

We are fighting a fight with no rules here … so instead of arguing the reasons why its happening we had better figure out how to at least be heard …. How to fight city hall if you will … how utilize what we have to (or figure out what we have to utilize) fight this ridiculous battle….

Whish I had any answers …or solutions … never been good at fighting a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent (our own government being that opponent).

And just to reaffirm my position …this government “we” elected is exhibiting socialistic behavior…IMHO so poo poo if you don't agree (sarcastic joke)

and by the way I meant no disrespect or sarcasm when I addressed the articulate/intelligent people here ....I truly believe there are some above average intellects posting here .... I was simply asking for their help now

 

[jeffree]

I will beg OPs to close this thread if it becomes a forum for casually hurling political talking-point insults as though one's own general political views were universally held here. This is no place for that sort of rant. There's a whole internet for that. This is the V4L forum, and it's an especially warm, mutually supportive and open place, around a common interest. Divisive politics are not germane, or helpful to the issue at hand.

Wise words, Aubergine.

 

[StormFinch]

Alright, setting all the rest aside, the biggest problem I see here is that until we unite, all we are going to be doing is tilting at windmills. What I am seeing is that very few people are uniting. For most, the issue is either being ignored, swept under the carpet, or being thought of as something that will eventually just go away. Calls to arms are being ignored. No one showed up in a NJ public forum to protest the banning of the e-cig. The online forums of the groups trying to unite us are dead. What now?

 

[martha1014]

Wednesday, March 10, 2010

K2 Smoke Blend Causing A Ruckus In St. Joseph


A synthetic herb with psychological effects similar to that of (the drug that is smoked) is being sold in St. Joseph, but potential buyers will have to use tact to find it.

It does not contain any THC or other illegal substances but is causing some concern. It can be purchased online.

If they find any herb that affects anybody in any way what so ever they will try to ban it. Who gives them the right to do this. I still don't understand why alcohol is not banned. It can cause more damage as some of the other illegal drugs. If they ban this herb things are getting totally out of control regarding what can and can't be banned. This is not an addicted herb and a lot of herbs makes people feel good so why is this causing concern. Alcohol is not considered a drug so why is nicotine. You get impaired mental function and unable to drive or even walk in many cases. Compare this to nicotine.

 

[Adrenalynn]

See that forum; pretty much every objection, argument, opinion, option and commentary, intelligible and otherwise, has at some point or another been addressed there, regularly punctuated by flat, real-world observations of what's actually going on.

And that's all she wrote.

"every objection, argument, opinion, option and commentary" [has been expressed by someone else, somewhere else]. So you started a thread that no one is welcome to participate in?

No one could possibly ever have anything new to add. No one else has an opinion of value. It's all done, period.

"And that's all she wrote." ? I don't see any laws, and especially any that [can't be repealed, amended, changed, or 'gotten around']

I'm not really sure where your head was with this post. Actually - I am. (and no, I'm not being mean. I intended it as suggesting you were being purely emotional, looking for a place to vent rather than looking for discussion)

So - with that, I'll participate in what I think you were looking for, to the best of my understanding, and "exit stage left <-----"

 

[leeshor]

It doesn't matter, (any more), who the "administration" is. The problem is with government going too far, (nanny state). No matter which side you are on, by definition. it IS political.

 

[curiousJan]

I think you're being presumptuous. Why can't we take what he says at face value. The conspiracy theories make less sense than just accepting that the FDA doesn't place much stock in harm reduction.

Please look at this and tell me with a straight face that it's not about the all-mighty dollar.

Feds found Pfizer too big to nail - CNN.com