NY state bill banning ecigs

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Sun Vaporer

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Sun, maybe you can explain to me what part of Judge Leon's ruling that E-cigarettes were tobacco Products, that the NY legislature failed to understand. I read his ruling to mean that the FDA was to regulate them as tobacco products.

If the FDA would classify them correctly they would automatically be banned to minors. Minors getting e-cigarettes, if they are getting them, is the FDA's fault.

Has one goverment agency took over our government, including the courts?


Taz--How these legislative bodies can skip over what Judge Leon held is beyond me. Granted it needs to survive appeal, but the should differ to it until the Appeals Court rules.

The relevent part of Judge Leon's ruling is quite clear about the stance of E-cigs as a tobacco product and the scope of the FDA. The Court stated:

"Because neither act encompasses electronic cigarettes, FDA contends that those products, at least as they are marketed by plaintiffs, are beyond the scope of Brown & Williamson Tobacco and are therefore regulable as a drug or device under the FDCA. This argument is too clever by half.... FDA's interpretation of "tobacco product" is not reasonable when considered in the context of the entire Tobacco Act. For instance, one provision of the Act specifically prohibits FDA from "banning all cigarettes, all smokeless tobacco products, all little cigars, all cigars other than little cigars, all pipe tobacco, or all roll-your-own tobacco products." 21 U.S.C. § 387g(d)(3)(A). Yet another provision prohibits FDA from "requiring the reduction of nicotine yields of a tobacco product to zero." 21 U.S.c. § 387g(d)(3)(B). That Congress would single-out "traditional" products for specific protection but use the broader term "tobacco product" when denying FDA the power to eliminate nicotine yields suggests that Congress understood the term to encompass more than traditional tobacco products and that Congress intended to permit nicotine use, whether from unforeseen, non-traditional sources (like electronic cigarettes) or from well established, traditional sources (like regular cigarettes). More importantly, it is apparent from Congress's broad definition of "tobacco product" that it intended the Tobacco Act's regulatory scheme to cover far more than the fixed array of traditional tobacco products at issue in Brown & Williamson Tobacco. Both the FLCAA and the CSTHEA only apply to "cigarettes," "little cigars," and "smokeless tobacco," which Congress defined with considerable specificity, yet the
Tobacco Act applies to "tobacco products," which Congress defined expansively as "any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption." 21 U.S.C. § 321(rr)(l). Furthermore, Congress made clear that FDA's new jurisdiction over tobacco products applies, not only "to all cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, roll-your-own tobacco, and smokeless tobacco," but "to any other tobacco products" as well. Id. § 387a(b). Simply put, the Court cannot accept that Congress defined "tobacco product" in this manner when it knew all along that the only tobacco products beyond FDA's drug device jurisdiction were the traditional products governed by the FLCAA and CSTHEA". Id. at 17-18


Sun​
 
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Sun Vaporer

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Sun, since there has been a judicial ruling on e-cigarettes and the appeal is still in progress, shouldn't Judge Leon's ruling be in effect, until the appeal is over ?

In other words, isn't Judge Leon's ruling the law, unless it's overturned ?

Unfortunate not Jerry because the case has not been fully adjudicated, but in most instances, the legislature will defer to litigation that is pending. What is troubling here is that States are "racing to beat the clock" with regards to the E-cig and acting like there is no case pending that signals that the FDA is going to be stuck with the E-cig wheather it likes it or not should the Appeal by the FDA fail.
 
Sun
 

JerryRM

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Unfortunate not Jerry because the case has not been fully adjudicated, but in most instances, the legislature will defer to litigation that is pending. What is troubling here is that States are "racing to beat the clock" with regards to the E-cig and acting like there is no case pending that signals that the FDA is going to be stuck with the E-cig wheather it likes it or not should the Appeal by the FDA fail.
 
Sun

The way I see it, Sun, the states are in a desperate situation, cash wise. Some of them, including New York, are even withholding income tax refunds. They need the cigarette excise tax and will do everything they can to get it. Judge Leon's ruling be damned, they are going to try to stop e-cigs and anything else that would deny them that tax. :mad:
 

firechick

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"bloomberg is mayor. and he will most likely be till he decides to leave, he's to rich to be voted out.
lols our governors kind on keep shifting in and out of office recently.

out current governor is david paterson."

There have been rumors that Bloomberg may have his eye on the big chair. Sounds like we would be going from one inept clown to another. Again.

I am not at all surprised that NY is pushing this through without regard to the FDA case. Write, call, fax, e-mail. There is a small possibility of changing enough minds to stop it.
 

taz3cat

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No Yank as those are FDA approved. The attack is on the grounds that the E-cig is not FDA approved.


Sun

Sun, do you think it is possible they have never heard of the SE/Njoy case and Judge Leon's ruling? They may not get out much or read the news very often and when it did happened it was not on their radar. I think we need to reminded them that Judge Leon ruled that PV are tobacco products by copying and pasting part of the ruling in our letters and e-mail.
 

Sun Vaporer

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Sun, do you think it is possible they have never heard of the SE/Njoy case and Judge Leon's ruling? They may not get out much or read the news very often and when it did happened it was not on their radar. I think we need to reminded them that Judge Leon ruled that PV are tobacco products by copying and pasting part of the ruling in our letters and e-mail.


Taz--I contend that they do not think that WE know about Judge Leon's ruling and are trying to blow right over it. People normally do not follow many court cases and these State Legislators should know that WE are following this case and WE do know the implications it has on E-cigs. WE are not ignorant or stupid about this issue and that is what these Legislators for the various States needs to know.


Sun
 
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Vocalek

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taz3cat

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See this post if you do NOT live in New York

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/casaa/77088-ny-state-bill-banning-ecigs.html#post1165143

If you do live in New York, make two phone calls -- one to your state Senator and the other to your Assembly representative.

The links to find yours can be found in this post (see response #7):

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/casaa/77088-ny-state-bill-banning-ecigs.html

Vocalek, we really need a place to put that wonderfully organized list and the directions on how to use the list to make e-mails easier for people. It will keep getting lost in the discussion. We really need one for every state it looks like. PLEASE EVERYONE QUOTE VOCALEK SO THE LIST DOSEN'T GET LOST OR HARD TO FIND.

Taz--I contend that they do not think that WE know about Judge Leon's ruling and are trying to blow right over it. People normally do not follow many court cases and these State Legislators should know that WE are following this case and WE do know the implications it has on E-cigs. WE are not ignorant or stupid about this issue and that is what these Legislators for the various States needs to know.


Sun
Sun, I guess it is either one. they don't know or think we don't know, which means we need to tell them that Judge Leon said PV were tobacco products in our letters and e-mail. They think God died and left the FDA in charge, and we need to let them know that a Federal Judge has more authority than the FDA.
 

Sun Vaporer

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Sun, I guess it is either one. they don't know or think we don't know, which means we need to tell them that Judge Leon said PV were tobacco products in our letters and e-mail. They think God died and left the FDA in charge, and we need to let them know that a Federal Judge has more authority than the FDA.

I am sure they would welcome the relevant quote from the case as it gives them the opportunity to pass the buck. Anytime there is a political issue that can be resolved by the Court instead of lawmakers, the lawmakers love it as they do not have to vote on it.

That is why the majority of all of your rights that are not enumerated in the Constitution from abortion, to procreation, to live with whom you choose, to marry, to contract, etc. were all judicially created and did not come from the legislation.


So please include the relevant quote in your letters.

Sun
 

Thyestean

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Great old NY, If you buy cigarettes in the city there like 10 bucks a pack and there trying to do the soda tax 18% for the obesity thing. This state and its officials are a bunch of corrupt money hungry egomaniacs full of scandal in the news all the time. If they want something to do they should go after all there own corruption and try to help the people trying to quit smoking and survive in a state thats becoming almost impossible to make a living anymore.

What in the blue blazes is going on in NY??

Chefs Call Proposed New York Salt Ban 'Absurd'

Welcome to Big Nanny. :grr: I don't one can vote them out. Elections are totally rigged to keep the elite in. Its gonna take something a bit stronger.

Wow. Both of those just go to show the absolute absurdity of government "officials".


This proposed legislation practically the same as Utah, which is one of the most "anti vice" states in the union, and we were able to convince those legislators to ban to minors, but keep for adults. They literally remarked how "these seem to be helping people."

We did it once, we can do it again!

let's hope so.



Thanks once again to those who keep us informed about this stuff and give us the information we need to attempt to combat it.
 

SusanB

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Sep 17, 2009
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ok so i've emailed everyone on the list and will make my calls later....
but we need a lot more people to email them ...and this thread doesn't look like it has as much attention as i would hope for.

I ask everyone to reach out on other sites as well...like facebook, twitter, ect...try and round up as many people as we can voicing a no vote on this bill
 

Cerement

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Mar 21, 2010
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I emailed senator Chuck Schumer about this.

Hello Senator Schumer,

I'm writing you today in regards to A9529 sponsored by Senator Rosenthal. The purpose of this letter is a plea and inform you of my stance regarding the electronic cigarette noted in this bill.

The bill does seem to read that the sale of electronic cigarettes will be banned in the State of New York because the FDA does not currently label it a tobacco cessation product or a tobacco product itself. Currently the FDA places this device in the Combination Drug Device category. At the same time the bill does state that the electronic cigarettes will be handled, in terms of the law, in a manner similar to traditional cigarettes.

My personal feelings, research and interest in the matter are as follows. I feel that there does need to be legislation about the sale of electronic cigarettes similar to cigarettes themselves in terms of age restrictions, quality control and taxation if necessary. If I may suggest, even a small tax on this product would assist the state in closing the budget gap. However, I do not feel that the language of the law should include the device being banned for sale in New York state.

Prior to delving further into my reasons I would like to tell you a little about the device itself. I do want to advise that I'm not an expert by any means, but it is something I have been researching for some time prior to making a final decision for myself.

The device itself consists of multiple pieces. You have the battery to power the device, the cartridge to hold the filler material similar to a wad of cotton. You then have the atomizer with turns the liquid on the filler material into a vapor. The liquid that is used in the devices is typically made of either Propelyene Glycol or Vegetable Glycerin. Extensive studies have been done on both of these products and it is currently approved by the FDA for human consumption. In the liquid you typically have nicotine and also flavoring agents.

Now, my feelings are that this product does need to be regulated for quality, but it should not be banned in the state. When compared side by side with traditional cigarettes they are far safer. While they are not a smoking cessation product they do deliver much less chemicals and harmful additives than cigarettes. Studies have been performed by Dr. Siegal of the Boston University in regards to this and he has a personal blog which can be found at (His blog)

Please, for the health of many smokers in New York state that are having difficulty in quitting smoking, do not allow the portion of the bill banning the electronic cigarettes to be approved.

Additional information on the subject can be found at (ECF web addy)

Signed,
Charles
 

CES

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I sent emails to the NY state legislature, and received two personal responses. One was a thanks you for your concern, but I found the second, from Joel Miller, 102 district, hopeful. He said that the legislation does not currently have a Senate sponsor and that it was referred to codes on 2/23/10. He also said "Should this bill come to the floor of the Assembly for a full vote I will be voting against it."
 
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