Official ProVari Radius Thread

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The Ocelot

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That is the goofy reason i am tempted by the ghostie, that effect right there.

Is that the merkavas @kates ? Its a good looking combo

Still loving the cabarnet and the onyx, brilliant they are :)

I'm still waiting for a video of the Ghost set on disco. Taps paw.
 

VNeil

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LOL! The funny thing about this debate is that you need to use that Ohm's law wheel in order to set a proper voltage. In the case where the target wattage is critical. Which it is, if your objective is to set your mod to 14W because any higher and it errors out. So in order to do that you have to multiply two 2 digit numbers in your head and then take the square root. Wouldn't it be far easier to set the $%&# thing to 14W and be done with it????? The only thing harder than setting a Provari 2.5 to max power is trying to explain to people why VV is such a bad idea :-x
Only because computing square roots in my head is far easier than arguing logic when the argument seems to defy logic :evil:
 
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kates

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That is the goofy reason i am tempted by the ghostie, that effect right there.

Is that the merkavas @kates ? Its a good looking combo

Still loving the cabarnet and the onyx, brilliant they are :)
The light thing is exactly as I hoped it would be :). The merkava is in the previous photo on the right - it's the easiest to build ever and was quite a surprise (Kabuki is still my favourite though).
 
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rbrylawski

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It wasn't too long ago that people stated they wouldn't buy a ProVari because it didn't have "variable wattage."

I remember those days as well. It never much mattered to me. Pea-Sized brains just need simple. Turn whatever control you have up or down, get a great vape and be happy. That's me. Yes it is!
 

The Ocelot

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LOL! The funny thing about this debate is that you need to use that Ohm's law wheel in order to set a proper voltage. In the case where the target wattage is critical. Which it is, if your objective is to set your mod to 14W because any higher and it errors out. So in order to do that you have to multiple two 2 digit numbers in your head and then take the square root. Wouldn't it be far easier to set the $%&# thing to 14W and be done with it????? The only thing harder than setting a Provari 2.5 to max power is trying to explain to people why VV is such a bad idea :-x
Only because computing square roots in my head is far easier than arguing logic when the argument seems to defy logic :evil:

My head is full of flowers and butterflies, not roots.

Roughly: resistance +2 = x; setting voltage to x 8 watts. Fine tune to taste.

ETA: And amps? I'm vaping a freaking ProVari! I don't give a flying fruit bat about amps.
 
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ENAUD

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My head is full of flowers and butterflies, not roots.

Roughly: resistance +2 = x; setting voltage to x 8 watts. Fine tune to taste.

ETA: And amps? I'm vaping a freaking ProVari! I don't give a flying fruit bat about amps.
That's the way it works for me for over two years now. Except if I'm using 1.5Ω re-no res wires in a tiny coil head, I usually add 1.5 to the resistance. Easy peasy simple Simon :) I never even bothered to figure out what watts I was vaping at, didn't care, still don't care. And I really don't care to start over figuring things out all over again at this point. And with that, I should probably just stay out of this thread henceforth. I really doubt that Provape is going to go and change the device at this juncture for a few oddballs like me...
 

VNeil

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That's the way it works for me for over two years now. Except if I'm using 1.5Ω re-no res wires in a tiny coil head, I usually add 1.5 to the resistance. Easy peasy simple Simon :) I never even bothered to figure out what watts I was vaping at, didn't care, still don't care. And I really don't care to start over figuring things out all over again at this point. And with that, I should probably just stay out of this thread henceforth. I really doubt that Provape is going to go and change the device at this juncture for a few oddballs like me...
About 100 years ago now, the horseless carriage was invented. Among other changes, in order to make it go faster you pushed down on a metal foot pedal. A certain portion of the population said "All my life I've had a buggy whip. When I wanted (my horse) to go faster I hit it with that whip. It just works, and I've always done it that way and I'm not changing. You can keep your new-fangled invention"

:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:
 

JD53

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Your reasoning is flawed. Using VV or VW you can similarly start at a low setting and increase it until it vapes the way you want. You don't HAVE to calculate watts. You can treat it like Zen's arbitrary 1-10 scale except in the case of the Radius it is an arbitrary 1-40 scale.

Although you are technically correct in that different atty's will deliver a somewhat different vape with the same wattage setting, it can be easily demonstrated that wattage is a far superior proxy for what you look for in a vape, as opposed to volts. Watts equals power and for the most part the same power applied to a coil generates the same amount of heat and approximately the same amount of vapor, to the extent that different atty's can be said to behave similarly.

The biggest variance among atty behavior as a function of watts (power) is probably the number of coils. If you vape a single coil atty at 10 watts and then change to a dual coil atty at 10 watts, you have reduced the power applied to each coil to 5 watts and that will substantially change the vape. But the controlling variable is still watts- across each coil.

Volts has no predictive value whatsoever (unless coil resistance is unchanged). Put 5 volts across a 2 ohm coil and it will behave totally differently than 5 volts across a .3 ohm coil. The 2 ohm coil will deliver 12.5 watts, the 0.3 ohm coil 83 watts!

Put another way.... if you hand me an atty without telling me the resistance I can have no idea whatsoever where to set a starting voltage (other than "really low just to be safe"). However, if you tell me how many coils it has, then I can decide a reasonable starting value in terms of watts per coil. I will probably have to tweak it to preference based on the characteristics of that atty and coil build, but I know that 10 watts (for example) will get me very close to what I like. And it should not burn out the coil, for example, or make the vape "go crazy". If I put 5 volts across an unknown coil, it may go crazy (it could try to fire at 83 watts per my prior example!).

The people that insist on VV are probably either using only a single coil resistance, or a very limited selection, and they have dialed in their preferences for the resistances they use. They could do the same with Zen's 0-10 scale, and it has just about as much meaning in the broad scheme of things. They are also not pushing their VV Provaris and are not running into constant over limit errors as they adjust coil resistance and try to find the voltage boundary that results in whatever wattage their particular sample allows (and I understand that varies from sample to sample). Nor are they using a calculator to back into volts and then back further into the 14W (or whatever it really is) limit. Personally once I got a VW device I never looked back. If only for that reason. And since I build my own coils and have a lot of atty's I have a wide spread of resistances to deal with.

Although I think Provape did the right thing from an engineering viewpoint, I think it was a poor decision from a marketing viewpoint. That because no matter how much logic and reasoning and ohms law is thrown at this debate, a certain number of people here will not buy a Radius without VV. Even if VV makes no sense as a preferred setting strategy from a technical viewpoint. As a software developer I learned that lesson at least 20 years ago- being technically correct is rather meaningless in the world of commerce. On the other hand, it is very obvious to me that Provape is a 99% engineering driven company, and about 1% marketing driven. And that is what makes them different. They would not be what they are if they were marketing driven. They would be like every other mod company, selling 200 watt box mods for $50 or less.
OK First off, it was JohnDO406 post on pg 601 that says you have to caculate watts to set voltage. You don't.
Actually, Variable Voltage makes a ton of sense from a technical standpoint.
Nobody is mentioning current. Current flowing thru the coil is the electrcal component that causes heat. Current is a component of power (watts) Voltage times current equals watts. In other words, 2 amps x 5 volts = 10 watts or 5 amps x 2 volts = 10 watts. Not really a useful example in PV's, but you should get the idea. The patent abstract by Bellinger & Ward (evolv) on variable wattage explains more.
Its not the number of coils in an atty, but the total resistance of the coils as seen by the PV.
Variable Voltage absolutely has a predictive value. Remember a VW device adjusts the voltage supplied to the atty, providing that the atty's resistance is stable. The resulting wattage is a product of the voltage and current.
I wouldn't hand you an atty of unknown resistace. If I did, you PV should be able to determine the resistace.
Personal experience has shown me 10 watts on one atty doesn't always provide an equal experience on another atty.

I typically use a Kabuki with 1.8Ω coils or a Kayfun 4 and a 1.9 coil. I usually start at 1.75 AMPS. If you multiply 1.8Ω by 1.75 amps you get a staarting voltage of 3.15 volts. Its a good starting point. Or you can start low and work your way up.

You might notice amperage ratings on batteries.
You might notice amperage limits on th PV itself.
Have you ever tried to buy a car fuse by wattage rating?

All I want is the same or similar feature set that I already have in my other Provari's, not give any up.
Shouldn't this info be in another forum?
 

VNeil

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My head is full of flowers and butterflies, not roots.

Roughly: resistance +2 = x; setting voltage to x 8 watts. Fine tune to taste.

ETA: And amps? I'm vaping a freaking ProVari! I don't give a flying fruit bat about amps.
What would you do if you wanted 12 watts instead? LOL
(I'm familiar with that rough approximation, and it is VERY rough)
 
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ENAUD

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About 100 years ago now, the horseless carriage was invented. Among other changes, in order to make it go faster you pushed down on a metal foot pedal. A certain portion of the population said "All my life I've had a buggy whip. When I wanted (my horse) to go faster I hit it with that whip. It just works, and I've always done it that way and I'm not changing. You can keep your new-fangled invention"

:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:
What's your point???

Watt about the Amish! :lol::lol::lol:
 

rbrylawski

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Perhaps my single most favorite movie of ALL TIME:

DAVE: HAL, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the doors!

HAL: Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

The monolith taught the monkey's how to kill to survive. We in turn taught a computer to do the same thing. Brilliant. Really!

 

Bronze

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That (emphasized by me in red) is incorrect. Voltage is NOT power. Watts is power. Your emphasized statement is only true if the atty resistance is constant. And this whole argument is only really relevant with changing atty resistance (for whatever reason).
I wasn't gonna say it. :)
 

VNeil

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OK First off, it was JohnDO406 post on pg 601 that says you have to caculate watts to set voltage. You don't.
Actually, Variable Voltage makes a ton of sense from a technical standpoint.
Nobody is mentioning current. Current flowing thru the coil is the electrcal component that causes heat. Current is a component of power (watts) Voltage times current equals watts. In other words, 2 amps x 5 volts = 10 watts or 5 amps x 2 volts = 10 watts. Not really a useful example in PV's, but you should get the idea. The patent abstract by Bellinger & Ward (evolv) on variable wattage explains more.
Its not the number of coils in an atty, but the total resistance of the coils as seen by the PV.
Variable Voltage absolutely has a predictive value. Remember a VW device adjusts the voltage supplied to the atty, providing that the atty's resistance is stable. The resulting wattage is a product of the voltage and current.
I wouldn't hand you an atty of unknown resistace. If I did, you PV should be able to determine the resistace.
Personal experience has shown me 10 watts on one atty doesn't always provide an equal experience on another atty.

I typically use a Kabuki with 1.8Ω coils or a Kayfun 4 and a 1.9 coil. I usually start at 1.75 AMPS. If you multiply 1.8Ω by 1.75 amps you get a staarting voltage of 3.15 volts. Its a good starting point. Or you can start low and work your way up.

You might notice amperage ratings on batteries.
You might notice amperage limits on th PV itself.
Have you ever tried to buy a car fuse by wattage rating?

All I want is the same or similar feature set that I already have in my other Provari's, not give any up.
Shouldn't this info be in another forum?
Your vaping experience is best modeled by power dissipated by the coil(s). If I tell you I vape at 10 watts that should give you a very reasonable indication of my vape. You do not have to know the coil resistance. If I tell you I vape a single coil at 40 watts that should tell you something too about my vape, and how it probably differs from a 10 watt vape.

I don't need any math. I know I like a vape at around 12 watts and it doesn't matter if it's a Kayfun or a Kabuki. I know I would not like a 40 watt vape.

If I tell you I vape at 4 volts it is meaningless without knowing the resistance. Once I tell you the resistance you will then *effectively* convert all that to watts. You may not do it explicitly but that is what you are doing when you say "I know what 4 volts will do with a 1.8 ohm coil".

The power dissipated by the atty is distributed across all the coils. If you put 14 watts across one coil you will get a certain "heat" to the vape. If you put 14 watts across 2 coils, you are dissipating 7 watts across each coil. In principle you may get the same amount of vapor (*) because the total heat dissipated is 14 watts. But it is a completely different vape because it is a much colder vape. And that is exactly why I do not run dual coils on a P2.5 even though it does produce vapor. So the number of coils, for a given wattage, has a HUGE effect on the vape, in terms of temperature.

* - you may not get the same amount of vapor because there is a certain minimum amount of power that must be applied to each coil in order to get the juice to vaporize at all. So there are certain coil configurations where you may get no vapor at all from a dual coil, but get some or maybe significant vapor from a single coil driven by the same power level.

You can use any calibration you want, and if you put certain conditions on it, you can make it meaningful. You can make voltage meaningful if you predicate it on a certain resistance coil only because you are then implicitly calculating wattage.

If I tell you I am vaping at 4 volts but do not disclose the resistance, the voltage by itself cannot be a very meaningful variable to use, compared to watts. Coils do not respond to volts. They respond to power level. If I tell you watts I do not have to tell you the resistance. To the extent that different atty's or coil builds can be compared, similar watts will give similar vapes. That is inarguable.
 

ENAUD

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OK First off, it was JohnDO406 post on pg 601 that says you have to caculate watts to set voltage. You don't.
Actually, Variable Voltage makes a ton of sense from a technical standpoint.
Nobody is mentioning current. Current flowing thru the coil is the electrcal component that causes heat. Current is a component of power (watts) Voltage times current equals watts. In other words, 2 amps x 5 volts = 10 watts or 5 amps x 2 volts = 10 watts. Not really a useful example in PV's, but you should get the idea. The patent abstract by Bellinger & Ward (evolv) on variable wattage explains more.
Its not the number of coils in an atty, but the total resistance of the coils as seen by the PV.
Variable Voltage absolutely has a predictive value. Remember a VW device adjusts the voltage supplied to the atty, providing that the atty's resistance is stable. The resulting wattage is a product of the voltage and current.
I wouldn't hand you an atty of unknown resistace. If I did, you PV should be able to determine the resistace.
Personal experience has shown me 10 watts on one atty doesn't always provide an equal experience on another atty.

I typically use a Kabuki with 1.8Ω coils or a Kayfun 4 and a 1.9 coil. I usually start at 1.75 AMPS. If you multiply 1.8Ω by 1.75 amps you get a staarting voltage of 3.15 volts. Its a good starting point. Or you can start low and work your way up.

You might notice amperage ratings on batteries.
You might notice amperage limits on th PV itself.
Have you ever tried to buy a car fuse by wattage rating?

All I want is the same or similar feature set that I already have in my other Provari's, not give any up.
Shouldn't this info be in another forum?
But nowadays, less is the new more.
 
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