Overheating E-Liquid May Produce Formaldehyde

[DaveP]

Choosing to be more of a minimalist since I experienced my younger care free and experimental days quite a while ago, I tend to vape in the 6 to 7 watt range with just enough atomization to blow a decent cloud. I really think that vaping is a safe activity if it's done in the right manner. Cranking the wattage too high is probably an issue in creating the bad stuff in the vapor we inhale.

Bigger clouds can come just as easily from efficient atomization as it does from high wattage. I'm kind of amazed at the clouds that result from my Aspire Nautilus BDC using 1.9 ohm (measure on my Provari) at 3.3v. The efficiency of these dual coils is top notch. The vapor warmth is just detectable, but I can white out my face in front of a mirror and the flavor is surprisingly strong for the wattage. Flavor is on a par with an Evod and that's a good vape. Both will put a Protank to shame.

What I look for is flavor in a reasonable wattage range. I've found it in those two tanks without the worry of acrolein and formaldehyde production.

 

[mooreted]

Right now I'm vaping a ViVi Nova at 3.7v and it tastes great. Not sure why you would need more than that. Going to check out the BDC though.

 

[SensesFailed]

Here is his Twitter page:

twitter. com/mrichtel

All of the stories I looked at were sensational crap. I don't care if he has a Pulitzer and a masters degree; everything he writes is crap. He even uses the term "Vapor Madness" in one tweet.

Just read that article, started good, has some references to some studies, fair, not terrible. Some of it was not good IMO as a journalist, some of it was pretty fair. All in all, it's actually better than what I would have expected from the NY Times.

 

[DaveP]

Right now I'm vaping a ViVi Nova at 3.7v and it tastes great. Not sure why you would need more than that. Going to check out the BDC though.

Vivi Nova is a good tank. I just like the cooler vape of a bottom coil better. Bottom coils seem to feed well all the way to the bottom. OTOH, BDC's are more likely to gurgle when they are less than half full, especially if you lay them down on their side between vapes. It's a tradeoff.

The Aspire Nautilus is worth the 30 something bucks you'll pay. It's a little taller than a Protank, but holds 5ml, 6 if you fill it completely. It's dual coil and the heads last at least a week without flavor loss with clear juices. The Evod is pretty close, also and it's a good one to try to experience the Aspire difference.

There are all kinds of claims with just about any tank. It's personal experience that means the most. Whatever works for the individual and their juice choice. Right now, I'm experimenting with a SmokTek RSST rebuildable tank using 350 mesh. I can't seem to get rid of the metallic taste, even when it blows clouds. They say when you get it right there's few other atomizers that can beat it. It's a good concept, but requires fiddling to personally discover what works according to those who swear by them. Yesterday, I added a 1mm silica wick inside the rolled mesh wick. Vapor production went WAY up, but that little metallic taste is still lurking in the detectable range.

 

[mooreted]

I know what you mean. The shop had me try a tank that had no wick, just wire mesh. It worked great except it tasted like sucking on a copper penny.

 

[Katya]

Bigger clouds can come just as easily from efficient atomization as it does from high wattage. I'm kind of amazed at the clouds that result from my Aspire Nautilus BDC using 1.9 ohm (measure on my Provari) at 3.3v. The efficiency of these dual coils is top notch. The vapor warmth is just detectable, but I can white out my face in front of a mirror and the flavor is surprisingly strong for the wattage. Flavor is on a par with an Evod and that's a good vape. Both will put a Protank to shame.

What I look for is flavor in a reasonable wattage range. I've found it in those two tanks without the worry of acrolein and formaldehyde production.

And since your dual coil Nautilus consists of two 3.8 Ω coils, the actual wattage (at 3.3v) is really low. I personally prefer higher voltage with my duals (3.6-4v) but it's still low.

I've never been a fan of dual coils, but it's time to perhaps reconsider. One can achieve good flavor and tons of vapor at significantly lower wattages than using single coil atties.

 

[Nikkel]

Cranking the wattage too high is probably an issue in creating the bad stuff in the vapor we inhale.

Also an issue in the bad stuff in the vapor we exhale. Those who share our atmosphere also share the risk, albeit to a lesser extent.
Proposed bans on vaping in public, especially in enclosed spaces, are not so unreasonable.

 

[Hulamoon]

as does the atmosphere, bad breath, composite wood, polio injections, plastics and mushrooms

Ya know, it has been found that our ground beef contains ammonia and formaldehyde. This came out I believe in 2012.

And I still see ground beef being sold in every grocery store across the nation....

Sent from my couch using Tapatalk.

 

[Katya]

as does the atmosphere, bad breath, composite wood, polio injections, plastics and mushrooms

Not to mention bad perfume, scented candles, hairspray, aftershave and deodorant.

 

[sonicdsl]

Also an issue in the bad stuff in the vapor we exhale. Those who share our atmosphere also share the risk, albeit to a lesser extent.
Proposed bans on vaping in public, especially in enclosed spaces, are not so unreasonable.

Oh? Have you seen this? BMC Public Health | Full text | Peering through the mist: systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks

 

[Nikkel]

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[Katya]

Nikkel, if you see a post that is in violation of TOS, just click that little black triangle with an exclamation point inside (on the bottom left hand side, just under the poster's avatar--next to Blog this Post button) and report it. Explain why you're reporting and let the moderators handle it.

 

[AndriaD]

The studies I've read report acrolein production occurring around 500F. The average coil wrapped around a wet wick runs in the 200F range. The Drexel study talks about high temps and acrolein/formaldehyde production not really being an issue due to the normally lower temps involved in vaping.

It's a good reason not to inhale when you dry burn a coil. Do it under an oven exhaust hood.

There's a good idea; I always find it very odorous to dry burn, and it is a bit irritating to my throat, because if you're holding it out in front of you, and looking down to see what it's doing while you're pressing the fire button, it's kinda hard *not* to breathe some of it.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Your girlfriend hopefully doesn't paint her nails? Most nailpolishes have formaldehyde in them.... There was a big scare story about it in the late 80s. But the amount of exposure is so low, it was deemed negligible. It does have a pungent smell, even in small amounts.
I have at times absentmindedly vaped and hit a dry coil. Scratchy, burny feeling. Not nice. But of course we don't do this all the time. I bet the amounts of either chemical are much higher in every drag of a cigarette.

Don't forget the toluene! I used to paint my nails like it was my religion... but when I became pregnant, 27 yrs ago, my husband observed that it might not be such a good idea to paint them while I was pregnant, since it made me "dingy for a half hour" as he put it -- I had no idea! I also couldn't paint them when I had a new baby, because every time I'd get a fresh coat on, I'd hear 'wahhhhhhh' and there went the nail polish. By the time I felt I had enough free time away from the kid to get it done, he was in kindergarten, I hadn't painted my nails in 6 yrs, and 10 seconds after I opened the bottle I felt like I was going to pass out. That's some SERIOUS stuff in those bottles!

Andria

 

[sonicdsl]

Thanks. I don't recall seeing that before.
I would like to see more studies comparing low-wattage and high-wattage ecigs. I would expect a difference in the Threshold Limit Values of contaminants and a difference in the sheer volume of PG and VG in the atmosphere, and perhaps more concern for bystanders. The Burstyn review probably included mostly low-wattage devices.
I see that the Burstyn review was paid for by CASAA. I would have more confidence in the results if the review had not been funded by an organization that wanted favorable results. Just as we were skeptical of tobacco research funded by BT, we should also be skeptical of ecig research funded by BE (Big Ecig).
We (vapers) are biased. We should admit that. We should not be too quick to criticize studies that are unfavorable nor too quick to praise studies that are favorable, although we have a natural tendency to do both.

People wanted the ecig industry to do their own studies, so they did. They claimed it was biased. Ecig industry said do your own (real) science then, and they said it's not their responsibility to prove them safe (nothing is safe). It's a no-win situation.

But in this case, it's not funded by BV, as we call it here (Big Vapor), but funded by US. Yes, we funded this; CASAA had the idea (an all-volunteer organization of 8 people, started here, by the way), and many of us stepped up and donated to the cause. Of course we hoped for a particular outcome, but the researcher himself has no horse in this race.

Similarly, we all chipped in to donate through crowd-funding for the esteemed Dr. Farsalinos to test over 150 anonymously purchased e-liquid samples from a wide variety of suppliers. He has so far been able to announce that over 65% of them came back testing positive for diacetyl and a couple of other components (albeit very small amounts, but nonetheless there). We, as a community, decided in 2010 we, for the most part, didn't want to inhale diacetyl and it's cousin molecules, despite it being GRAS by the FDA for consumption. We knew, through research, it's not safe for long-term inhalation. This is disconcerting, and work is being done to find out who dropped the ball, when most flavor companies know this, and every e-liquid mixer should know this.

The point is, sure, we're a little biased, but most of us are realistic enough to seek to understand the issues, and work out ways in which to resolve them, and have been since ECF was founded in 2007.

So, do a little more research please before joining the conversation here in a way that may be taken as aggressive by some. Ask questions, sure, make theories, ok, but keep the tone neutral. It's hard to see intent through the computer screen, and sometimes the impact is not what you intended.

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Having said all of that, everyone else needs to remember the rules of the forum, please: in part, to treat each other with courtesy and respect. If you have an issue, try to resolve via PM. If that doesn't work, and/or if you are concerned, please report the post or PM, or simply PM me or another moderator for assistance. That's the reason we are here.

 

[catilley1092]

Thanks. I don't recall seeing that before.
I would like to see more studies comparing low-wattage and high-wattage ecigs. I would expect a difference in the Threshold Limit Values of contaminants and a difference in the sheer volume of PG and VG in the atmosphere, and perhaps more concern for bystanders. The Burstyn review probably included mostly low-wattage devices.
I see that the Burstyn review was paid for by CASAA. I would have more confidence in the results if the review had not been funded by an organization that wanted favorable results. Just as we were skeptical of tobacco research funded by BT, we should also be skeptical of ecig research funded by BE (Big Ecig).
We (vapers) are biased. We should admit that. We should not be too quick to criticize studies that are unfavorable nor too quick to praise studies that are favorable, although we have a natural tendency to do both.

While it's true that one can swing reviews & studies of products in or against their favor, one thing to keep in mind. BT is for profit industries, CASSA isn't.

I would trust the results of a non-profit over huge corporations any day.

Cat

 

[sonicdsl]

While it's true that one can swing reviews & studies of products in or against their favor, one thing to keep in mind. BT is for profit industries, CASSA isn't.

I would trust the results of a non-profit over huge corporations any day.

Cat

I would agree with you, but first I want to know where their funding comes from. In CASAA's case, it's from the consumer. In the case of, oh, say, the ACA, it's primarily corporate benefactors (Johnson & Johnson and Robert W Johnson Foundation, amongst other pharmaceutical companies). Hence (most of) our reluctance to trust or believe them any longer.

 

[Nikkel]

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[Nikkel]

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[catilley1092]

That's right, CASSA is US, the consumers.

BT has lied to us & intentionally covered up many things for 40+ years. That was known to most of us long before the first e-cigarette device was even a dream. I believe that we can all safely agree on that.

Cat