Panic attacks three weeks after quitting advice please.

[NiNi]

I have Chronic Panic Disorder, that part of my brain that controls my "fight or flight" response is busted, like a swinging door, just randomly lets go of those chemicals and I'm off to Panicland...or the ER if it's been a long time since I've had one and it totally catches my by surprise.
This isn't your GAD, generalized anxiety disorder, or Social Anxiety, it's major kick your ...., I'm dying, numb extremities, can't breath, feel like you've been hit by a steam roller, and it takes about 48 hours to get your bearings back and function like a human.
I've been taking Xanax for over 23 years..........seriously, broken brain, no fixing it, meds suck. My degree of the disorder usually makes people become shut ins. I couldn't, I had kids and a job, so I sucked it up, took my meds, and rolled with the punches. I still get them periodically......grrr..........
One of the things my doc told me when I asked if he could hypnotize or something else to help me quit smoking years ago was:
Smoking gets you to regulate your breathing during an attack, better then a paper bag.......and then the "I can't hypnotize you while you're on Xanax, it won't work".

Ok, here we go: All the garbage that's in cigarettes doesn't magically leave your body the day you quit. Some of that stuff accumulated in fatty and muscle tissue. The higher amount of water intake when you start vaping helps flush that stuff out, among other things, but sometimes, when those nasties cut loose from their previous location, they recirculate through your body on the way out, through the blood stream, long journey for them, roller coaster ride for you.

Your body has finally recognized these isolated toxic dumps for what they are, and is in the process of kicking them to the curb.

18 mg-24 mg nic, it's not going to matter, the nasties are going to do what they're gonna do and the last thing you want to do is REALLY up your nic and get sick from chain vaping when an attack hits you.

Some pointers:

Eat healthy.
Drink LOTS of water.
Have your vape gear with you at all times.
When you feel the panic coming on, take steady vapes, concentrate on counting the 10 seconds of the draw, hold, and release, counting to 10 as you do........and repeat. Do this until things start to chill out........it may immediately start up again, so be ready to repeat the process. (This is where raising your nic can make you sicker than a dog)
Listen to your breathing. Panic can start from us taking shallow breaths and exhaling more than what we inhale.
This is from my own experience and telling an ER nurse to shove a paper bag "somewhere" when I couldn't get it to "work" as I "merrily" hyperventilated into an over oxygenated state.
Tell yourself: You're not gonna die, this has happened before and you survived, you can't fight it, just go with the flow and ride it out.

The anxiety should chill out in a few days, just don't fight it when it hits you, accept it and be ready for it.

You can do it, I'm cheering for you!!!!!!

 

[Rickajho]

Are you taking any new medications? Has something happened in your life that would cause you to feel like you're not in control? We're not doctors/psychiatrists so I strongly recommend you see your doctor asap.

It could be so many things such as hormone imbalance and only a medical professional can test and diagnose what is really going on. It may have something to do with quitting smoking, but then again I don't know.

In this particular case if a drop in nic level doesn't change it right away that's my concern. If the OP had an underlying borderline endocrine disorder, quitting smoking may have tipped that over the edge into a genuine medical problem. The emotional states the OP is describing don't sound like typical panic attack kind of head trips or nic OD. Nor does the duration of the symptoms. What it does remind me of is hypoglycemia, which can really screw with your head and emotional states.

 

[cmdebrecht]

In this particular case if a drop in nic level doesn't change it right away that's my concern. If the OP had an underlying borderline endocrine disorder, quitting smoking may have tipped that over the edge into a genuine medical problem. The emotional states the OP is describing don't sound like typical panic attack kind of head trips or nic OD. Nor does the duration of the symptoms. What it does remind me of is hypoglycemia, which can really screw with your head and emotional states.

Hypoglycemia crossed my mind doing as well. But with extreme symptoms I would expect disorientation and confusion as well.

Similar symptoms had me wondering about my own blood sugar levels not too long ago. My doc told me I had just given him a list of symptoms for anxiety. He was right. Anti-anxiety meds solved the problem when it arose.

Now that I think of it, I had been hittin' the Xanax a little more around the one month vaping mark.

Still, Silent, it would be wise to get a check up from your doc. A basic blood workup would rule out any metabolic or glucose related illnesses.

 

[Sane Asylum]

I don't think it unusual for a person who has just given up cigarettes having anxiety attacks, given all the things in cigarettes. I know I had some severe anxiety a few weeks after quitting and it seems to be calming down a bit now. I also think that a lot of us smokers tend to have more anxiety than most and that's part of the reason why we smoked in the first place.

Like a lot of posters here have stated, cut down on the nicotine and see what happens in the next day or so (even 18mg may be too high) and if there's no improvement, see a doctor. It may be withdrawal and your system balancing and adjusting things out or it may be something else.

 

[LeftHandBlack]

Didnt experience any of that myself. 24mg nicotine is pretty potent since I havent even tried it. I started with 16 mg and it would make me light headed. I think you have too much nicotine and probably more than you got from actual smoking.

 

[alisa1970]

See here (among others) => Smoking and hormones in health and endocrin... [Eur J Endocrinol. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

It's bad enough what smoking does to your hormonal systems over decades of smoking, but for a select few pulling the plug on the suppression can produce some really wacky medical results.

ETA: I'm trying to find the durned report that covers this specific issue. It's come up before on ECF.

What it comes down to is a person can have an underlying endocrine disorder that is kept suppressed by the effects of smoking. When you take smoking out of the equation and the hormonal system is no longer being held in check, the genie pops out of the bottle and the underlying hormonal disorder reveals itself.

That would be my concern about what may be going on with the OP. If dropping the nic level to 12 mg doesn't change anything don't go screwing around with WTA to try and correct it. Get to an MD and get checked out soon.

Rickajho, you are spot on...

I don't understand why it's not recommended that people quit smoking under the supervision of a doctor. Especially long term smokers. My health deteriorated rapidly after I quit, and it started off by my realizing that I needed WTA for what I thought was mental stabilization. Over the course of two months, what I thought were allergies to more and more stuff (including vape juice), and severe swelling and weight gain turned into one of the worst clinical cases of Hashimoto's Hypothyroid my doc has seen. I'd been aware that I may have had a problem years before quitting, but my smoking had probably supressed the worst of the auto-immune response.

Quitting made my entire metabolic and endocrine system go haywire. Twice, I felt I had to go back to smoking at least part time to relieve symptoms. Seeing a doctor and getting correct treatment has made the difference between me smoking and not.

Silent Scream, please do monitor your condition closely. Try WTA or Swedish Snus if you can, just to see if the lack of MAOI's might be the problem. In my opinion (I am NOT a doctor), those MAOI's in tobacco work well and are better for your body than synthetic medication. If you don't find relief, see your doctor--don't wait until you're miserable.

And on the nicotine front, at about my 3 week mark smoke free after April 1, I tried to vape my way out of the feeling that I was missing something, and ended up making myself nic sick. When I finally broke down and had a cigarette, it was awful--but it helped. That made me realize that I was going to need more than just plain nic and when I got the WTA, it was a game-changer for me.

 

[Criticalmass]

Thanks Rick,

I've seen that list before none of it explains my current situation. I think I'm going to have to work on reducing the nic but as I said above, when I reduce nic level I vape more. I'll just have to control it.

Weird thing is I had no problems at all for the first three weeks no matter how high or low nic intake was in my liquids. Maybe it all mounts up? I don't know.

I have to fight this, I absolutely won't go back to cigarettes I'll feel a complete failure.

Having said that, if I have another night like last night I'll have to see my doctor. I really don't know if I can do that again. I felt like I was going to die

Post edit: I have suffered from anxiety and panic attacks for the last ten years. It sucks. I'm subscribing to this thread so I can read more about all of this. Some good information here. Meditation and exercise help and is probably the best long term resolution I can suggest, but it isn't a quick fix. The pills I have been given for it do not help (except Xanax).

Note: meditation for me is doing some physical activity that allows my brain to just sort of drift while I do it. It can be anything that relaxes you or puts you in that zone where your mind can wander freely.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

SS, I hope whatever this is you are able to sort it out and get it under control quickly. It certainly doesn’t sound like anything I’d ever want to go through.

Hijack warning—To all of those that have posted about panic attacks, I want to thank you. My mother, one of the toughest, most level headed, steady-as-she-goes women I’ve met, suffered several debilitating panic attacks a couple of years ago. I had no idea what that meant and, as it turns out, is much worse than I ever imagined. I never looked it up because I was told each time, “Oh don’t worry about, she’s fine now.” I guess they were trying to protect me but I wish I’d known how serious it was. So I thank you all for posting your experiences to help SS, which turned out to help me too. Thank you again.—End hijack.

 

[Myrany]

I have fought with social anxiety disorder my entire life. It has been in the last 10 years though that I have also started fighting with periods of depression and panic attacks.

For ME quitting smoking has not really affected the panic attacks much if at all. Then again how would I know which are just my normal state of affairs and which from quitting smoking.

One thing I did notice is every 4-6 weeks since quitting smoking I have a bout with depression. When that stats up I have to up my nic level for a day and it passes quickly. If I do not catch it quickly enough it morphs into the full boat afraid to leave the house or talk to people panick attacks and will require a doctor visit and meds to get back in control.

Quitting smoking does strange things to all of us. Seriously see a doctor to be certain what is really going on.

 

[WillyZee]

I hope you are feeling better soon SS.

 

[jhelliwell]

I can relate to panic attacks. I few years ago I started suffering from them. I had a pain in my left arm, my heart was about to burst through my chest, I couldn't breathe, I was dizzy, weak, shaky and freezing cold. I ended up in ER to be told there was nothing wrong with me. They poked and prodded me, hooked me up to ECG, nada. Go home, they told me. It happened over and over again.

It turns out I had an upper respiratory tract infection, sinusitis in fact. Everything was blocked up in my head, sinuses, nasal cavities, eustacians and the part of my brain responisble for the flight or fight panic was being triggered, evidently my brain thought I couldn't breathe. A course of amoxycillin sorted the URTI out and the panic attacks went with it.

There is always a reason for the attacks so go and see your GP. Get signed off from work for a few days to de-stress. In the meantime cut out stimulants like caffeine and nicotine for a week. Surely you can go a week without.

 

[cmdebrecht]

. In the meantime cut out stimulants like caffeine and nicotine for a week. Surely you can go a week without.

Hmmmm. Really? Going without caffeine may be a reasonable suggestion (for some). But nicotine? Surely you don't mean this.

 

[RPGZealot]

Tell yourself: You're not gonna die, this has happened before and you survived, you can't fight it, just go with the flow and ride it out.

I'm a chronic panicker myself. I'm on a constant 40mg of Citalopram (Celexa) with Alprazolam (Xanax) poppers if I need them.

That said, the paper bag never worked for me, but I have found that I vape faster/harder than I smoke. If that's true for you, you might be making yourself hyperventilate by vaping. Slow down? I nearly panicked once or twice the first two days I started, simply because the nic wasn't getting IN ME quite as fast and I seriously overcompensated.

Additionally, as a somewhat heavy smoker myself, I find that only 24mg liquids kills the urge to smoke -- but they're also damned strong for me (I smoke American Spirit Medium/Balanced, 1PAD). If I vape that for longer than a minute or two, I get the shakes and I get lightheaded. I put my PV down, and walk away. 18mg are much better for vaping a lot simply because I like the flavor. Though, that too, gets to be too much after, say, 20 minutes straight.

You said you just lowered to 18... give that a day or two and see how you feel. I also was incredibly odd feeling on day one. Day two was better. Day three I felt normal again.

I'm not sure what form of panic and/or GAD you have, but do not assume it's the vaping, lest you run the risk of setting up a situaltionally bound panic scenario. I'm certain you don't want to do that.

It's likely that the slight change in your habits (and intake) made you feel a little off and that triggered the fight or flight hormones. Which, as I know from a ton of experience, is enough to rip you from a sound sleep at 2AM and make you hover over a toilet, certain death is seconds away.

Also... I was a Marlboro smoker for a long, long time before I switched to American Spirits a year or so ago. I went through some insane, wacky withdrawal during that time because American Spirit doesn't put all the crazy .... in their smokes that Phillip Morris does. If you're coming off a major brand, you've got that to contend with too. FYI, that took an entire week to balance out.

I'd say ride it out as best you can for a week, and try, try not to attribute the panic to vaping. It's really just your system throwing a tantrum. If anything, float between several different strengths (12-24mg) depending on the urge at the time. Go higher only if you're really thinking about lighting up.

 

[jhelliwell]

Well yeah. It's not THAT hard. I'm a control freak anyway and even as a PAD smoker I would periodically take a week of abstinence to check I could handle it. and I could, so surely someone else could

 

[RPGZealot]

I'd imagine you'e in the minority of PAD smokers who can/will do that.

I can't. I've tried.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Well yeah. It's not THAT hard. I'm a control freak anyway and even as a PAD smoker I would periodically take a week of abstinence to check I could handle it. and I could, so surely someone else could

Um, no. Just because you can do something doesn't mean somebody else can. That's just silly. Most likely you can eat a certain food that will kill me. I can't just will it not to kill me. If we could all just quit for a week most of us wouldn't need to use PVs.

 

[SueandCootie]

Rickajho, you are spot on...

I don't understand why it's not recommended that people quit smoking under the supervision of a doctor. Especially long term smokers. My health deteriorated rapidly after I quit, and it started off by my realizing that I needed WTA for what I thought was mental stabilization. Over the course of two months, what I thought were allergies to more and more stuff (including vape juice), and severe swelling and weight gain turned into one of the worst clinical cases of Hashimoto's Hypothyroid my doc has seen. I'd been aware that I may have had a problem years before quitting, but my smoking had probably supressed the worst of the auto-immune response.

Quitting made my entire metabolic and endocrine system go haywire. Twice, I felt I had to go back to smoking at least part time to relieve symptoms. Seeing a doctor and getting correct treatment has made the difference between me smoking and not.

Silent Scream, please do monitor your condition closely. Try WTA or Swedish Snus if you can, just to see if the lack of MAOI's might be the problem. In my opinion (I am NOT a doctor), those MAOI's in tobacco work well and are better for your body than synthetic medication. If you don't find relief, see your doctor--don't wait until you're miserable.

And on the nicotine front, at about my 3 week mark smoke free after April 1, I tried to vape my way out of the feeling that I was missing something, and ended up making myself nic sick. When I finally broke down and had a cigarette, it was awful--but it helped. That made me realize that I was going to need more than just plain nic and when I got the WTA, it was a game-changer for me.

THIS!!!! I vaped an entire summer four years ago, but went back to analogues. I have thyroid disease, and the usual meds cause terrible side effects with me, so I just live with it. Quitting smokes four years ago with vaping landed me in the hospital with a run away heart rate. I couldn't function. I was thru the roof hyperthyroid. And I'm home from work today feeling terrible because it's happening again. I have WTA on the way, and I'm gonna try snus too...I have no desire to smoke, not gonna fail with this!! Have yourself checked out medically as soon as you can, there may be actual health issues involved. At least I know what's happening, and can get with my doc if I need....

 

[elJefe88]

Only time I've ever had a panic attack in my life was when I was diagnosed with ADHD and was on ADHD medication that really fried my nerves a few years back, stopped that and back to normal. I've quit analogs for about a month now (I was an on and off e cig smoker, now I only smoke e cigs with the very occasional analog at the bar) and I am starting to feel a little anxiety from it as well, so you are not the only one, I'm sure it has to do with withdraw from the chemicals and crap that were in cigarettes, I'm also playing around with another brand of PG/VG mix, because some people are slightly allergic to PG, that might be it as well, and also your body might be telling you something if you are having panic attacks, it could be something related to the actual formula juice you are smoking. That's what I'd look at first is drop the nic down to 12, and buy a completely different brand of juice from a completely different manufacturer, cheers

 

[Claudia P]

I have lived with panic disorder since the 70's, for a while it was full blown Agoraphobia and I was housebound for about 5 years. I am much better now but do still have panic attacks from time to time. Panic disorder or as they now call it anxiety disorder usually shows up out of the blue after a stressful event in your life, it doesn't necessarily occur immediately after the stressful event either. For me even the change of seasons can trigger a period of panic attacks, but I've learned how to deal with them. Every time I've tried to quit smoking I have had severe attacks so this may be your trigger, part of the withdrawal.
While it may or may not be possible to stop the triggers it is very possible to stop what your mind does to make it worse. Your body releases adrenaline for apparently no reason and you will feel that until your body metabolizes the adrenaline, it scares the crap out of you and that makes it worse.

Going to a doctor and having things checked out can help a lot with the mental aspect and they can give you something to take to stop it temporarily like Xanax. I personally will take half of one at the first sign, but have not always had that option, the first thing I did that helped me was to ride an exercise bike when the attack would start and that did several things. First it would speed up the metabolizing of the adrenaline, it would give me something to do to take my mind off of it, and it would reassure me that it was just a panic attack because I would start feeling better pretty quickly, had it been anything really physically serious it would make it worse not better.

Then the next step was to pay close attention to every detail of the attack and either make notes or remember how I felt, how long it lasted, etc, analyze all of it. Then the next time one would occur I would compare that one to the others and before long I could say to myself, ok this is like the others and they passed and nothing really bad happened, I didn't die, I didn't pass out, I didn't do anything to embarrass myself in public, etc. I eventually learned my triggers and learned how to stop an attack before it had a chance to take hold. One of my worst places was standing in a checkout line so when I have to do that I will read the covers of all of the magazines and papers there, I don't care one iota about what they say but instead of standing worrying about having an attack, which will cause one, I'm busy doing something. I learned to literally tell the attack to just stop I wasn't going to believe it, and that worked for years.

This worked very very well for me until I got old and don't have them often, now they scare me again because I am no longer used to living with it on a daily basis, and I am in fact old enough now that it really could be a heart attack or stroke or any number of other things, but the Xanax works as does physical exertion.

I hope you don't really have panic disorder and this is just part of the withdrawal from the other things in cigarettes, which it may well be, even on 24 mg nic I still went through a lot of withdrawal when I quit this time. It hasn't been a fraction of what I have experienced in the past when I tried to quit but it's been there just the same. The inability to concentrate on anything, and a complete inability to think clearly or creatively has probably been the worst, but that is getting better. Hopefully it will get a lot better soon because I am an artist and not being able to create has been difficult.

I doubt the vapor has anything to do with your attacks, it's more likely withdrawal from the other garbage in cigs, but see your doctor just to reassure yourself and maybe get a prescription just to be on the safe side.

Thanks Rick,

I've seen that list before none of it explains my current situation. I think I'm going to have to work on reducing the nic but as I said above, when I reduce nic level I vape more. I'll just have to control it.

Weird thing is I had no problems at all for the first three weeks no matter how high or low nic intake was in my liquids. Maybe it all mounts up? I don't know.

I have to fight this, I absolutely won't go back to cigarettes I'll feel a complete failure.

Having said that, if I have another night like last night I'll have to see my doctor. I really don't know if I can do that again. I felt like I was going to die

 

[Claudia P]

When I first started having panic attacks in the 70's no one knew what it was and for a number of years that really made it worse than it needed to be. Once they started talking about it on daytime talk shows and I heard others talking about the same feelings I was having I was able to start learning how to deal with it and get better. For years I couldn't shop or eat in a restaurant, or drive any kind of distances, I still have trouble driving distances at a constant speed at times, if I have someone with me to talk to I do fine. The knowing that I can say, I can't do this right now will you take over, usually prevents any problem from happening.

I have Chronic Panic Disorder, that part of my brain that controls my "fight or flight" response is busted, like a swinging door, just randomly lets go of those chemicals and I'm off to Panicland...or the ER if it's been a long time since I've had one and it totally catches my by surprise.
This isn't your GAD, generalized anxiety disorder, or Social Anxiety, it's major kick your ...., I'm dying, numb extremities, can't breath, feel like you've been hit by a steam roller, and it takes about 48 hours to get your bearings back and function like a human.
I've been taking Xanax for over 23 years..........seriously, broken brain, no fixing it, meds suck. My degree of the disorder usually makes people become shut ins. I couldn't, I had kids and a job, so I sucked it up, took my meds, and rolled with the punches. I still get them periodically......grrr..........
One of the things my doc told me when I asked if he could hypnotize or something else to help me quit smoking years ago was:
Smoking gets you to regulate your breathing during an attack, better then a paper bag.......and then the "I can't hypnotize you while you're on Xanax, it won't work".

Ok, here we go: All the garbage that's in cigarettes doesn't magically leave your body the day you quit. Some of that stuff accumulated in fatty and muscle tissue. The higher amount of water intake when you start vaping helps flush that stuff out, among other things, but sometimes, when those nasties cut loose from their previous location, they recirculate through your body on the way out, through the blood stream, long journey for them, roller coaster ride for you.

Your body has finally recognized these isolated toxic dumps for what they are, and is in the process of kicking them to the curb.

18 mg-24 mg nic, it's not going to matter, the nasties are going to do what they're gonna do and the last thing you want to do is REALLY up your nic and get sick from chain vaping when an attack hits you.

Some pointers:

Eat healthy.
Drink LOTS of water.
Have your vape gear with you at all times.
When you feel the panic coming on, take steady vapes, concentrate on counting the 10 seconds of the draw, hold, and release, counting to 10 as you do........and repeat. Do this until things start to chill out........it may immediately start up again, so be ready to repeat the process. (This is where raising your nic can make you sicker than a dog)
Listen to your breathing. Panic can start from us taking shallow breaths and exhaling more than what we inhale.
This is from my own experience and telling an ER nurse to shove a paper bag "somewhere" when I couldn't get it to "work" as I "merrily" hyperventilated into an over oxygenated state.
Tell yourself: You're not gonna die, this has happened before and you survived, you can't fight it, just go with the flow and ride it out.

The anxiety should chill out in a few days, just don't fight it when it hits you, accept it and be ready for it.

You can do it, I'm cheering for you!!!!!!