Philip Morris "e-cig"

[Jammin]

I am one of the few that agree we need regulation. I wished we as a community could figure out how to regulate ourselves but it isn't looking good.

I am a fan of Halo juice because they are one of the few that actually have a chemist create their juice. Most of these vendors take off the shelf flavorings that contain things that can cause all kinds of health problems. They have no idea of what is really in the stuff they are selling. It needs to be 3rd party verified.

"Regulation" isn't the problem. It is the fact that regulation is not going to garner us what you think. Remember, analogs are "regulated". Huge 'eye roll' here.

If it were simply the fact that BT getting ahold of e-cigs meant guidelines and uniformity, and standards that should be met were enforced, that would be fine. But that isn't what is going to happen.

Your post while in theory sounds fine, in reality is not going to measure up to what you think....

I am sure without a doubt some liquid vendors are not up to snuff. But there are a few that I think are just fine, many of them on this forum. I would far rather buy their liquids than anything PM sells. I simply won't buy anything from PM. Not ever again. And I am prepared to quit e-cigs if they become my only choice. They have done nothing to instill one iota of confidence within their customer base.

 

[ambientech]

Help us out, I can't find anything even suggesting that MOST of the Niquid sellers use such things as "normal practice"

Sorry should have said most vendors offer juice that contain components that can cause major health problems without a mention of it in the description nor will they admit to it. Some do not fall under this description.

I can pick apart posts also but tend not do that because I have better things to do......

 

[ambientech]

"Regulation" isn't the problem. It is the fact that regulation is not going to garner us what you think. Remember, analogs are "regulated". Huge 'eye roll' here.

If it were simply the fact that BT getting ahold of e-cigs meant guidelines and uniformity, and standards that should be met were enforced, that would be fine. But that isn't what is going to happen.

Your post while in theory sounds fine, in reality is not going to measure up to what you think....

I am sure without a doubt some liquid vendors are not up to snuff. But there are a few that I think are just fine, many of them on this forum. I would far rather buy their liquids than anything PM sells. I simply won't buy anything from PM. Not ever again. And I am prepared to quit e-cigs if they become my only choice. They have done nothing to instill one iota of confidence within their customer base.

I understand believe me I do. I wished we could get a third party to regulate us separate of the government but then again money is going to corrupt anything....

 

[ambition]

Correction that IS how addiction "works" on you- again it was NO accident it was researched and implemented at great costs (more costs than just $ to BT btw)

Are you saying that if I grew my own organic additive free tobacco and starting smoking with that only then I wouldn't have become addicted?

I won't defend BT, but I really can't believe that they had to do much to make the product more addictive. All their additives and methods just IMHO make each brand more or less appealing to certain people. I can tell if a certain brand has been frontloaded and I hate it. Without of all the tricks tobacco will hook you just fine.

 

[Jammin]

Are you saying that if I grew my own organic additive free tobacco and starting smoking with that only then I wouldn't have become addicted?

I won't defend BT, but I really can't believe that they had to do much to make the product more addictive. All their additives and methods just IMHO make each brand more or less appealing to certain people. I can tell if a certain brand has been frontloaded and I hate it. Without of all the tricks tobacco will hook you just fine.

If the nic from pure tobacco is THAT addictive (as analogs are today), why am I not equally hooked to my 18 mg juice? It is an 'out of sight, out of mind' activity for me. I only vape part time, and rarely ever take it out with me. That tells me while nic is addictive, it is about as addictive as caffiene. And I can strongly say that while I love coffee, the addiction to that is no where near what my analog addiction was. The worst i get when I go a few days without coffee is a headache. Can't say I have the intense craving like with smoking. It was nothing but win for the big companies, PM et al make a fortune on the front-end, tobacco cessation companies make a killing in the middle, then PM, et al make another killing on the back end when these methods typically fail. I know, I know, companies are in it to make money. I don't mind that. But can they make it a fair playing field, and not add a bunch of stuff that kills and makes the user feel they can't leave it?

I have heard many others here say the same thing - that the vaping addiction is not like it was from smoking. And the all day vapers - they quite honestly might just enjoy the act of vaping a great deal and that is why they do it so much more, not necessarily that the addiction is as strong as smoking. This is only a hunch, but I bet the all day vapers would not suffer the same debilitating withdrawals that they would have had kicking analogs and a much higher success rate should they choose to quit.

This is why I am so grateful to e-cigs. When the time comes that BT makes me say ''no more' I know that I will be able to, with success. I enjoy vaping, but it doesn't control me like smoking did.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don't NEED to say it BT themselves have proved it easily enough. It doesn't matter if someone chooses to believe otherwise the evidence abounds and is no longer even secret....

Are you saying that if I grew my own organic additive free tobacco and starting smoking with that only then I wouldn't have become addicted?

I won't defend BT, but I really can't believe that they had to do much to make the product more addictive. All their additives and methods just IMHO make each brand more or less appealing to certain people. I can tell if a certain brand has been frontloaded and I hate it. Without of all the tricks tobacco will hook you just fine.

 

[ambition]

Nice way to ignore the point guys.

Yeah I can lay my ecig down and forget about it too. Everyone here knows that tobacco is more than just nicotine.

BT have shown us that they'll do anything to keep us hooked and that's not in dispute. We're forgetting that they are not just one big evil mob, but separate companies fighting for market share, and they'll do anything to get an edge and keep that share as well as explore new opportunities (adolescents).

Those same adolescents still have to convince themselves that they enjoy smoking. Additives have nothing to do with that. Marketing, peer pressure and branding does.

But even if you grew up where you can't smoke anything but home grown tobacco, you'll still get hooked.

Anyway, back to the regulation thing. I can't imagine any way that regulation will allow us to vape what we want, and know it's safe, without spending big bucks to keep doing it.

 

[Jammin]

Nice way to ignore the point guys.

Yeah I can lay my ecig down and forget about it too. Everyone here knows that tobacco is more than just nicotine.

BT have shown us that they'll do anything to keep us hooked and that's not in dispute. We're forgetting that they are not just one big evil mob, but separate companies fighting for market share, and they'll do anything to get an edge and keep that share as well as explore new opportunities (adolescents).

Those same adolescents still have to convince themselves that they enjoy smoking. Additives have nothing to do with that. Marketing, peer pressure and branding does.

I'm not sure what point was missed. I think I covered all your points in my response. ANd yes, I know they are companies fighting for market share, and willing to fight really dirty to get it. That is the point I've been making, and the reason why I do not feel comforted at all knowing they might be "regulating" the e-cig.

OH, and to add, many people who can't shake this habit are not all adolescents. People from all walks of life have dealt with this. I can assure you that I did not continue to smoke because I succombed to peer pressure. I have an ironclad will, but quitting smoking was quite honestly one of the hardest things I've ever done, and if not for e-cig, I might still be doing it. I love the fact that I can vape, and not smell atrocious, and not be chained to it.

 

[Jim Bob]

NO I wasn't trying to "pick apart anything" I asked for some help in finding what you're saying IS right here I have not been able to find it. IF you can't or won't provide that , just say so- no big deal

Sorry should have said most vendors offer juice that contain components that can cause major health problems without a mention of it in the description nor will they admit to it. Some do not fall under this description.

I can pick apart posts also but tend not do that because I have better things to do......

 

[vjc4]

im curious.would never buy one but still curious.

 

[Jim Bob]

But even if you grew up where you can't smoke anything but home grown tobacco, you'll still get hooked.

"Hooked" yes just NO where NEAR as hooked as BT has managed to acquire , like I said it's very well documented and not a "secret" at all, in fact several huge lawsuits have been won on this very evidence from BT own internal records

 

[ambition]

I'm not sure what point was missed. I think I covered all your points in my response. ANd yes, I know they are companies fighting for market share, and willing to fight really dirty to get it. That is the point I've been making, and the reason why I do not feel comforted at all knowing they might be "regulating" the e-cig.

OH, and to add, many people who can't shake this habit are not all adolescents. People from all walks of life have dealt with this. I can assure you that I did not continue to smoke because I succombed to peer pressure. I have an ironclad will, but quitting smoking was quite honestly one of the hardest things I've ever done, and if not for e-cig, I might still be doing it. I love the fact that I can vape, and not smell atrocious, and not be chained to it.

Just as peer pressure is not the reason we continue to smoke and nicotine is not the sole reason we crave it...what was missed is the additives are not what makes tobacco such a difficult thing to give up.

For these additives to have any effect on you at all, you had to willingly put yourself in a position to receive those effects.

BT didn't make me smoke, and I knew how harmful it was before I ever lit one up. I feel bad for the people that smoked before the health effects were widely known, but I am not one of them, and I have nobody to blame for my smoking but myself.

 

[Jammin]

"Hooked" yes just NO where NEAR as hooked as BT has managed to acquire , like I said it's very well documented and not a "secret" at all, in fact several huge lawsuits have been won on this very evidence from BT own internal records

Exactly. And this is the point I've been trying to drive home to ambition. One should be able to take a risk and know what they are getting into. Even with the info that has been disclosed about BT, many smokers still don't fully realize the extent of how that tobacco cigarette has been tampered with. And for many who do, they are still facing a downward spiral trying to get off of them.

 

[Jammin]

Just as peer pressure is not the reason we continue to smoke and nicotine is not the sole reason we crave it...what was missed is the additives are not what makes tobacco such a difficult thing to give up.

For these additives to have any effect on you at all, you had to willingly put yourself in a position to receive those effects.

BT didn't make me smoke, and I knew how harmful it was before I ever lit one up. I feel bad for the people that smoked before the health effects were widely known, but I am not one of them, and I have nobody to blame for my smoking but myself.

Like I have said ad nauseum, most (to include me) had no idea what the heck they were putting in them when we started. So shoot me for believing at one time a company was reputable.

 

[ambientech]

NO I wasn't trying to "pick apart anything" I asked for some help in finding what you're saying IS right here I have not been able to find it. IF you can't or won't provide that , just say so- no big deal

Sorry you don't know how to search but I wont do it for you. All you have to do is search Diacetyl. No not all vendors nor all juice contain it but it is in more juice than you will ever know since many vendors wont admit it. Some say trust me our juice doesn't contain it while others just wont acknowledge the question.

 

[Jim Bob]

For these additives to have any effect on you at all, you had to willingly put yourself in a position to receive those effects.

BT didn't make me smoke, and I knew how harmful it was before I ever lit one up.

You'd have to KNOW they're included to "knowingly " do anything, I SERIOUSLY doubt you know how harmful those things are as they have added several thousand more chemicals quite recently, the effects/affects likely won't materialize for quite some time but I'm doubting it will be positive for anyone.

 

[Jim Bob]

Sorry you don't know how to search but I wont do it for you. All you have to do is search Diacetyl. No not all vendors nor all juice contain it but it is in more juice than you will ever know since many vendors wont admit it. Some say trust me our juice doesn't contain it while others just wont acknowledge the question.

NOW i know WHY you avoid the issue, I have followed all those threads and NO they don't state what you claim- not even close. As for the condescending tone you seem to enjoy taking, I Just LOL and carry on

 

[ambientech]

You'd have to KNOW they're included to "knowingly " do anything, I SERIOUSLY doubt you know how harmful those things are as they have added several thousand more chemicals quite recently, the effects/affects likely won't materialize for quite some time but I'm doubting it will be positive for anyone.

So why do disagree with me ?

 

[ambition]

Like I have said ad nauseum, most (to include me) had no idea what the heck they were putting in them when we started. So shoot me for believing at one time a company was reputable.

"More Doctors smoke Camels" ... How could you not believe it.

At that point in time, even BT didn't know how harmful their product was.

Regardless of all the evil trickery, bribery, shifty marketing and lowlife tactics, it was our choice.

How many people have you known that have quit smoking for a year or so and then started up again? I have, twice. I can guarantee that it wasn't BT that put the cig in my mouth. And it wasn't even the same brand each time. This has more to do with dopamine than additives.

 

[ambition]

NOW i know WHY you avoid the issue, I have followed all those threads and NO they don't state what you claim- not even close. As for the condescending tone you seem to enjoy taking, I Just LOL and carry on

Diacetyl is that lovely buttery flavour. Almost any juice that uses buttery notes in its flavour will have it. Most of the time there's no way to know, and it's far more likely than not.

Diacetyl up until recently was the chief butter flavouring in microwave popcorn. Most have stopped using it, but some still do.