- Status
It would also be great if folks would actually read before offering a nonsense rebuttal ..
When PM or any other other maker holds a gas mask on your face and forces cig smoke down your throat, when Mickey D's force feeds a Big Mac down your gullet, or, use any other example you can think of .. then come back and whine about how you were forced to become an addict .. otherwise, excercise the basic human concept of "free will" ..
Those that complain that they were somehow roped into doing something allowed that to happen .. they excercised "free will" .. however, now, it's the big bad establishments fault .. THEY made me do it, somehow ..
I'm an addict and I admit it .. no one forced me to do anything .. I smoked because it was cool .. and I kept doing it for over 40 years, knowing full well I should not .. now, I'm still sucking on a nicotine delivery device .. and I'm still an addict ..
When PM or any other other maker holds a gas mask on your face and forces cig smoke down your throat, when Mickey D's force feeds a Big Mac down your gullet, or, use any other example you can think of .. then come back and whine about how you were forced to become an addict .. otherwise, excercise the basic human concept of "free will" ..
Those that complain that they were somehow roped into doing something allowed that to happen .. they excercised "free will" .. however, now, it's the big bad establishments fault .. THEY made me do it, somehow ..
I'm an addict and I admit it .. no one forced me to do anything .. I smoked because it was cool .. and I kept doing it for over 40 years, knowing full well I should not .. now, I'm still sucking on a nicotine delivery device .. and I'm still an addict ..
Phillip Morris never did a thing to help me.I refuse to buy their product even if it is an ecig. I dont want big tobacco to control vaping.They should just keep on packing cancer sticks as far as I am concerned.
I think the one thing that is being missed here is that you have to want to do something to do it.
People don't want to suck on a lozenge instead of smoking a cigarette.
People don't want to stick on a patch instead of smoking a cigarette.
People don't want to chew gum instead of smoking a cigarette.
People don't want to take a pill instead of smoking a cigarette.
There is a ton of success with ecigs because your base need for nicotine was met with a similar delivery system which tricks your body into thinking you're still doing the same thing. Aside from the fact that it's vapor and free of x, y, and z chemicals, how is what you are doing now any different than what you were doing before?
People generally don't really want to quit, but feel like they have to quit due to societal norms and health concerns. You put a want to quit behind somebody and you'll see it happen...but you can tell a 2 PAD smoker with the start of emphysema that they will get a tube stuck in their throat if they don't quit smoking, and that may not be enough motivation to actually do it for them. People don't like being told what to do, and if you like smoking and you validate the return over the risk, even subconsciously, then you're going to keep smoking.
I didn't pick up a PV so I could quit smoking, I picked up a PV as a cheaper alternative. I'm still just as addicted as I was before without all those "addictive" chemicals. I'm happy that those harmful chemicals aren't entering my lungs anymore, but I'm more happy that it doesn't taste terrible and leave a smell on me. Oh, and it's cheaper to boot.
People don't want to suck on a lozenge instead of smoking a cigarette.
People don't want to stick on a patch instead of smoking a cigarette.
People don't want to chew gum instead of smoking a cigarette.
People don't want to take a pill instead of smoking a cigarette.
There is a ton of success with ecigs because your base need for nicotine was met with a similar delivery system which tricks your body into thinking you're still doing the same thing. Aside from the fact that it's vapor and free of x, y, and z chemicals, how is what you are doing now any different than what you were doing before?
People generally don't really want to quit, but feel like they have to quit due to societal norms and health concerns. You put a want to quit behind somebody and you'll see it happen...but you can tell a 2 PAD smoker with the start of emphysema that they will get a tube stuck in their throat if they don't quit smoking, and that may not be enough motivation to actually do it for them. People don't like being told what to do, and if you like smoking and you validate the return over the risk, even subconsciously, then you're going to keep smoking.
I didn't pick up a PV so I could quit smoking, I picked up a PV as a cheaper alternative. I'm still just as addicted as I was before without all those "addictive" chemicals. I'm happy that those harmful chemicals aren't entering my lungs anymore, but I'm more happy that it doesn't taste terrible and leave a smell on me. Oh, and it's cheaper to boot.
Last edited:
Just wanted to chime in to say I share your passion on the issues Jim Bob. Reading though some of the past posts I find it ironic. The majority of us here on ECF were so strung out on cigarettes, so addicted and taken from our "choice" we supposedly could just stop, we discovered PVs to set us free.
I'm not saying I don't agree with many about personal responsibility. Absolutely. People should take that for their own lives and choices. Yes I take responsibility for my 11 year old self's ignorant choice of that first cigarette. However the addiction that followed wasn't exactly choice. All I know is everyone is going think what they want to think and more power to you. I really don't want to become a "high n mighty" sort of ex-smoker. The kind that forgot the struggles I faced and tell other smokers "Oooh well you made the choice to buy it, just stop" If it was that easy no one would smoke and I would of quit cold turkey.
Last edited:
Thank you, what is so clearly obvious to many of us slide right past a few it seems. I did not think for one second I was close to being alone here. 
THE REAL Point here (to ME) is this:
I KNOW what tricks they used and what it does to humans all around the world (especially young folks in other countries) and they have NO Shame or ethics, IS that the type of business folks WE really want in this business, I have NO doubts I do not- not even for a second and no "rationalization" of "it's just what businesses do" cuts the mustard, ANY other business intentionally putting poison in consumables would be OUT of business, not BT they get a "pass" it's wrong in my view.
THE REAL Point here (to ME) is this:
I KNOW what tricks they used and what it does to humans all around the world (especially young folks in other countries) and they have NO Shame or ethics, IS that the type of business folks WE really want in this business, I have NO doubts I do not- not even for a second and no "rationalization" of "it's just what businesses do" cuts the mustard, ANY other business intentionally putting poison in consumables would be OUT of business, not BT they get a "pass" it's wrong in my view.
IF "that" were meant for Me - I read what you said(and comprehended it ) I don't agree at all ......
When a US Company TRICKS you into "trying something" without letting you KNOW up front they have manipulated the product in order to addict you AND Keep you addicted - well you can condone that all you want I DO NOT- simple really.
Every single thing I said is 100% true, if that is "nonsense" to you so be it...It's not even hard to find for anyone willing to do just a tiny bit of research into things rather than calling "conspiracy theory" without knowing better.
When a US Company TRICKS you into "trying something" without letting you KNOW up front they have manipulated the product in order to addict you AND Keep you addicted - well you can condone that all you want I DO NOT- simple really.
Every single thing I said is 100% true, if that is "nonsense" to you so be it...It's not even hard to find for anyone willing to do just a tiny bit of research into things rather than calling "conspiracy theory" without knowing better.
Last edited:
Wow, many of us (as so often posted right here) know we're not nearly so addicted.
When I smoked I HAD to smoke , going an hour without a smoke, trust me I didn't want to be around me, I never went past 15 minutes, I woke at night TO smoke, NOW I can go for several hours without thinking about vaping- HUGE difference, it's NOT the nicotine that was SO addicting (in my case for sure) but the thousands of additives placed there to do exactly what they did...I had severe withdrawals, when I quit, enough reason for my to Never light up again! Last weekend my wife and I went out with friends for > 4 hours , I didn't bring a PV with me, and was fine, something I'd NEVER done with cigarettes. Something I'd never done for > 30 years in fact!
Well, I'll tell ya Jim, I vape like I smoked, and I smoked when I wanted to, which was damn near all the time.
Oh I did too, when I first started and for a long while after- once you get all the "crap" from cigarettes out of your system you may be very surprised (I was) and it takes a couple months or more BTW for that to happen (for me longer) I still vape like a research monkey when I drink too LOL but I don't NEED to , I do it because I really enjoy doing it, for me that is HUGE YMMV
Now I can definitely get behind that.
I'm just young and dumb and have a hard time seeing addiction as a disease / disorder
. Who knows, maybe that'll change in time...I am only 25 after all, and only smoked for 8 years. I definitely enjoy this more and like that my money isn't going to PM.
I'm just young and dumb and have a hard time seeing addiction as a disease / disorder
. Who knows, maybe that'll change in time...I am only 25 after all, and only smoked for 8 years. I definitely enjoy this more and like that my money isn't going to PM.
I've been off analogs now for over a year .. I go no where without my PV and my tackle box of liquids / batteries / paper towels / pipe cleaners .. and most that use a PV do the same ..
I know I'm still an addict, and I know that if I smoke an analog, I'll like it .. I like the rush, I like the burst of energy and I like the taste .. and I own that, each and every day ..
No longer being an analog smoker did not buy me the right to complain about those that still smoke, nor did it buy me the right to peer into the business practices of any company that may have gone out to make me an addict .. because, the company that makes the goods are within their legal right to do so .. and it was me that continued to consume the product .. because, at the end of the day, I just continued smoking, and flew in the face of the evidence that continued to mount for all those years proving it was a life shortening / unhealthy addiction ..
Using logic based on other posts in this thread, we should then encourage Governmental Regulation / Extensive Testing / FDA Approval .. et al .. because, we don't want any addictive substances in out liquid .. oh, I'm sorry .. except nicotine ..
I know I'm still an addict, and I know that if I smoke an analog, I'll like it .. I like the rush, I like the burst of energy and I like the taste .. and I own that, each and every day ..
No longer being an analog smoker did not buy me the right to complain about those that still smoke, nor did it buy me the right to peer into the business practices of any company that may have gone out to make me an addict .. because, the company that makes the goods are within their legal right to do so .. and it was me that continued to consume the product .. because, at the end of the day, I just continued smoking, and flew in the face of the evidence that continued to mount for all those years proving it was a life shortening / unhealthy addiction ..
Using logic based on other posts in this thread, we should then encourage Governmental Regulation / Extensive Testing / FDA Approval .. et al .. because, we don't want any addictive substances in out liquid .. oh, I'm sorry .. except nicotine ..
Yea, trust me, I know. I live in Phillip Morris Country. I hear many a terrible tale about that place, but even if I didn't, the thigns that are public knowledge are bad enough.
Ha, we are neighbors! LOL I didn't even see the richmond location under your avvy when I replied. Mine says DC but I have since moved.
Yet again we disagree (big shock)
Did you seriously just say "legal rights" to add poisons to a consumable? Wonder WHY BT has lost so many multi-million $ suits then? I'd surmise with their $$ and legal team IF they WERE really within their legal rights they'd won every one , yet "somehow" that was not the outcome, reinforcing the truth yet again.NO other legal business can or does knowingly add poisons and addictive (sole purpose) chemicals (including ammonia so as to "freebase the nicotine") they're not allowed this alone points out that BT is getting a "pass" that NO other business is getting, this concerns me (at least) since it doesn't concern you, more power to that I guess. I'm glad your view is not the majority view on here
ETA
NEWSFLASH FYI- NO one "needed" to "peer into" what they have done, the media and many court documents became public information where the evidence was clear that not only they did it, they heavily researched it before they did it, internal documents proving their goals and intentions including intentionally targeting US Youth which their research was clear that young brains get much more easily addicted and are much harder to wean. Free will is one thing as an adult but taking pre-teens and making them addicts as a business goal is terrible and very real.
This is clearly going "nowhere" you have a totally different view of business ethics than I do for sure, that is well within your rights and I'll give you the last words on that.
Last edited:
Business ethics and legality are two different concepts .. if a company is pedaling an illegal substance, they will be dealt with by the law .. thus far, the substance continues to be sold as it has been now .. I have no different view on ethics than anyone else does .. I am simply able to separate the two concepts ..
Other logic just does not hold water .. we know eating lard can kill you .. we know smog is bad ..
No one creates an addict / the addict creates itself ..
And, again, I'm interested in hearing anyone back up their statements by now not agreeing with
Using logic based on other posts in this thread, we should then encourage Governmental Regulation / Extensive Testing / FDA Approval .. et al .. because, we don't want any addictive substances in out liquid .. oh, I'm sorry .. except nicotine ..
because that's what it boils down to .. using your own logic ..
Other logic just does not hold water .. we know eating lard can kill you .. we know smog is bad ..
No one creates an addict / the addict creates itself ..
And, again, I'm interested in hearing anyone back up their statements by now not agreeing with
Using logic based on other posts in this thread, we should then encourage Governmental Regulation / Extensive Testing / FDA Approval .. et al .. because, we don't want any addictive substances in out liquid .. oh, I'm sorry .. except nicotine ..
because that's what it boils down to .. using your own logic ..
LOL yup just south of you. Looks like I'm going to be coming through there in Sept to pick my mom up at the airport. I'll wave as I go by
- Status
Similar threads
