I ordered 250 ml of 100 mg nic from RTS Vapes.i just transfered it into my used blue glass 30 ml Halo bottles and have them in the fridge,not the freezer,i think i should be ok.
Preparations for freezing nic
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This is incorrect, and assumes that VG or PG expands when it is frozen like water does. It doesn't, it contracts with cold, expands with heat. Neither PG nor VG freeze solid at normal freezer temps. Even if it does not freeze, temperature changes will cause most liquids to expand or contract in volume. The example I gave was personal experience with a 50 mL bottle filled to the rim with 100 mg/mL VG nic. I had filled it in a 62 F kitchen in January, and brought a bottle out of the freezer into my hot office in the summer time, probably 95F at the time. After it had come to room temp, it had expanded and was leaking out from under the cap. Since this was 100 mg/mL liquid, I consider this a very important issue for safety.
Even with a couple mL of headspace, one still has to be careful of expansion if the bottle is on its side, since the headspace air will expand more than the liquid in a scenario like I describe. Many people take their VG-nic out of the freezer and put it into hot water to warm up and lower viscosity. Expansion can make it leak in this case too. This also depends on the bottle/cap/gasket you use.
I am quite aware that a bottle will hold more than its rating. Headspace is important to have when shipping or storing, due to possible expansions with temp change in transit or in a storage room.
If your going to store them for more then a year put them in the freezer.
The VG nic I have from Fall of 2009 is not changed from its original state, at all. I would assume it will store indefinitely, since it sets up like glue in the freezer.
I have had PG nic turn orange in the freezer after a year, but this was lower grade nic, for sure. It didn't go bad, it went tobacco, and a good one at that. Other very pure nic in PG I've had stored unchanged for well over a year. I don't tend to hold on to my PG-nic in general for more than a year, since I use it to make juices for those close to me that can tolerate PG (I can't). I generally deplete my PG nic stores at Christmas time as a result.
The thicker the liquid, all else being equal, the less molecular movement there is, and the less likely a nic molecule will bump into an O2 molecule and react. So I would guess that PG nic will not last as long in the freezer than VG nic, since it remains more fluid than VG in the cold. But if it is a pure clean nic, it will probably last a couple of years anyway. Just don't have actual data like I do VG nic.
@Burnie: no, VG will become like a very thick goop, not icy. PG is still pretty liquid in the cold. And yes, this is one reason why they can be used as an antifreeze, as well as a boiling point elevator, in addition to their relative safety in the extreme conditions of a running engine.
Also remember safety. Safety glasses and gloves. Long sleeves. Also the vapors can get to you while you work. Work in a well ventilated area and use a large syringe with no luer lock needle. I also use teflon tape around the threads to make sure it's as air tight as possible. The affordable amber bottles out there have pretty cheap caps. Also be careful not to shear the cap off by over tightening. Snug is all you can get.
Here's a great supplier of bottles with free shipping.
wholesalevials.com
I bought the same bottles from another supplier and payed almost as much for shipping as I did for the bottles.
Good luck and happy vaping.
Here's a great supplier of bottles with free shipping.
wholesalevials.com
I bought the same bottles from another supplier and payed almost as much for shipping as I did for the bottles.
Good luck and happy vaping.
Thanks for the link to colored bottles with eurodroppers! Bookmarking this one. These are also good for flavors for syringe dispensing and no spills. Even water, PG and VG. You can tilt the bottle with the needle inserted with no fear of drips or spills. I use these as much as I can. I hate looking at a completely open glass bottle of a flavor sitting their begging to be knocked over.
I assume you mean with a luer lock needle, not no luer lock needle. The teflon tape is maybe overkill, but not a bad idea in principle. Although if I used it, it would be just for storing, and would get shredded after a while when using the same bottle for dispensing. And opening the bottle anyway renders the teflon tape moot, even with the eurodropper. I find the eurodropper acts as a good gasket, and they are completely inert. I could see using teflon when its in the freezer, then removing it while dispensing. But I have to say I think it is moot. The majority of O2 issues with glass bottles are not from the environment, as long as the cap is tight, but that which is naturally dissolved in the PG or VG, and I have yet to figure out how to remove that safely.
Another thing is the color of the glass. Nic does not react with visible light, it reacts with UV light, and even colorless glass is fine for filtering UV...which there is almost none of inside anyway. Freezers are dark. I have not seen significant differences between nic oxidizing in colorless glass as opposed to colored glass in the freezer...everything remains constant for months and months that I can see. That said, there are a great many liquids in chemistry that are visible light sensitive, and coloring is cheap.
Storing in plastic, however, will promote much faster oxidation, since it allows O2 to diffuse through the walls, especially in the case of squeeze-type dropper bottles (LDPE). Most people don't want this for storage. I have found some nics "age" this way quite nicely, and the oxides can add a wonderful tobacco flavor without greatly reducing the nic content...and oxides are not harmful, but their flavor is not for everyone. If you are in a highly polluted environment with a high NO level, however, you do not want gas diffusion through the walls in principle. How much nitrosamine content this adds, however, is not known, and it is probably trace at best.
Storing in plastic, however, will promote much faster oxidation, since it allows O2 to diffuse through the walls, especially in the case of squeeze-type dropper bottles (LDPE). Most people don't want this for storage. I have found some nics "age" this way quite nicely, and the oxides can add a wonderful tobacco flavor without greatly reducing the nic content...and oxides are not harmful, but their flavor is not for everyone. If you are in a highly polluted environment with a high NO level, however, you do not want gas diffusion through the walls in principle. How much nitrosamine content this adds, however, is not known, and it is probably trace at best.
You make a good point with the color of the glass as the freezer is dark anyway. The only time colored glass (Brown/blue) comes into play is when you are storing it outside the freezer in the light. Such as what you have out for use.
Good info here. Thanks. I did mean without a luer needle but just to transfer. i tried it a few times and it works. It's not accurate enough for juice making but it's great to get 60ml of fluid, especially VG from one place to another where accuracy to the cc doesn't matter like in transferring NIC from a big bottle to a little bottle. I found I wasted a bit when pouring and the spilling hazard is greater.
I do only use the teflon once to store then it comes of for good. I also store PG/VG in the fridge in mason jars and I didn't want to risk it taking on the taste of my fridge. Works great.
I packed up my 240 ml of 60 mg nic today.
I've got 16 1/2 oz amber bottles in a box covered with bubble wrap in the back of the freezer.
I couldn't find my teflon tape so I didn't wrap the caps. I've got 8 bottles of VG, 8 bottles PG.
Do your worst FDA.
I've got 16 1/2 oz amber bottles in a box covered with bubble wrap in the back of the freezer.
I couldn't find my teflon tape so I didn't wrap the caps. I've got 8 bottles of VG, 8 bottles PG.
Do your worst FDA.
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This is the lore of the colored bottles, but honestly I've not seen any change at room temp with colorless glass and clean VG-nic. But then I don't have a small bottle of nic out for use for more than a couple months in general. Then again, piece of mind has great value in DIY, and colored glass certainly doesn't hurt anything. The light is not reactive light, and you cannot do anything about O2 already present in the VG or PG anyway. Here it is the temperature that is going against you, but my experience with VG nic is that it remains vurtually unchanged for weeks. I found a 30 mL colorless glass bottle of RTS 100 mg in an open box in my mixing room. Figured it had to have been sitting there for 6 months or more. Still colorless nic liquid.
I don't care about a little oxidation anyway, so much, as it can often add a nice flavor itself. I think this is why well-aged cigars are so much better than fresh ones...oxidation. I have purposefully allowed some VG-nic from Vermont Vapor sit at room temp in plastic bottles for months...this will really invite oxidation. Turns into the most delightful maple-tobacco notes. My brother always wants this delicacy liquid for Christmas every year!
Being the anally-retentive person that I am I went to the pharmacy here at the hospital and asked for 'chemical assistance'. They thought it was funny until they realized I was serious. Basically there is no ill effects in freezing PG or VG as they won't completely freeze. Nicotine is an inert chemical that is unaffected as well.
I also asked about brown glass versus clear glass. Brown or amber glass is used to inhibit light and UV from breaking down the chemicals. There is no benefit to brown glass when stored in a freezer or fridge.
Then we discussed the intial volume that I would be purchasing, which is 2 liters of 60mg nicotine in a 100% PG base. We decided that the most economical storage would be 8 ounce mason jars. These are easily stored, readily available, and inexpensive. The best price I found was Big Lots. $10 per dozen, with lids and rings.
I also asked about brown glass versus clear glass. Brown or amber glass is used to inhibit light and UV from breaking down the chemicals. There is no benefit to brown glass when stored in a freezer or fridge.
Then we discussed the intial volume that I would be purchasing, which is 2 liters of 60mg nicotine in a 100% PG base. We decided that the most economical storage would be 8 ounce mason jars. These are easily stored, readily available, and inexpensive. The best price I found was Big Lots. $10 per dozen, with lids and rings.
Nicotine Safety and Handling
Also make everything that has nicotine with big wording DANGER - POISON and date it. Have children in house show them what you have explain to them not to handle it and it's not food it's poison.
You can keep nicotine in fridge 18 months.
I wouldn't get 100mg nicotine to dangerous to handle 60mg is ok.
Also make everything that has nicotine with big wording DANGER - POISON and date it. Have children in house show them what you have explain to them not to handle it and it's not food it's poison.
You can keep nicotine in fridge 18 months.
The higher the concentration of Nicotine the longer it will store. I agree if you are unsure about handling 100mg NIC you shouldn't buy it and if you have children you should plan out how you are gong to secure it. I used gloves, safety glasses, long sleeves and a respirator mask when I decanted my 100mg. DO NOT mess around with it for sure.
Kurt, can you confirm this?
Seems to me that the lower the concentration of nicotine, the slower it would oxidize.
Kurt, I'm going to pull the trigger on my final nic purchase this week. I'm leaning towards 100% vg after reading your posts but the jatropha derivative issue has me a little concerned. What are your thoughts on this? How can I be sure the vendor is using vg base that wasn't processed using any jatropha?
I've emailed 2 vendors that I'm considering buying from but even if they say I have nothing to worry about I'm not sure I can just take that at face value and run with it.
I've emailed 2 vendors that I'm considering buying from but even if they say I have nothing to worry about I'm not sure I can just take that at face value and run with it.
Would it be sensible to tightly fit Saran Wrap over the mouth of the bottle/jar, then screw the cap/lid down tightly over it?
I'm not sure I would want that type of plastic in contact with the nic. I don't know how it might react to it.
It's not reactive. Saran is made from polyvinylidene chloride, is mostly impermeable (especially by oxygen), and non-reactive to nicotine. There is an existing patent to use PVDC as a base material for nicotine patches, and is used for the blister packaging for nicotine gum.
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