Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[MacTechVpr]

fantastic table. thanks mac.

Q: what are you considering 2mm. are some or all of those 5/64" winds?

Thanks Beck. Some of the earliest contact coil builds I did were all on 28 going back five months (and before Rip's video I might add). I was researching the advanced builds done by others I've mentioned on Metalhed's thread the first few weeks after I quit. My technique was rough. I hadn't realized many of the nuances and damned sensibilities of these Kanger tanks but they were tight builds. And yes…you are exactly correct they were all 5/64 builds, silica and Ekowool (I didn't know about Nextel back then) dropped into the slot by insertion of a thick needle into the wick to localize the build before the set (before Metalhed's thread). I never found the Protank hand-wind rebuild picture thread. Wished I had back in those days.

Consequently though I deformed one hell of a lot of coils adjusting termination before I understood fully what that was doing. And I was ignoring my own electrical experience in the process — this is where metal memory helps. Since as you know I've become a bit of a stickler about basic technique. That's the reason. You know the old saying a little knowledge is dangerous. And for newb's just knowing how to physically do it is just fine. We all have a short attention span today. But when they burn holes in their tank they scratch their heads thinking they did everything right. Well no, they've got shorts, hot legs, hot ends, discontinuity of the micro all over the damned place…but they built it exactly like the video!.

Sooo…they blame the vendor. Oh look so and so sold me this sh!!!tty tank that doesn't work. Kanger's suck. Then…vaping doesn't work for me. That's when we all lose.

So that doesn't work for me. I would really like to see everyone who tries succeed now — getting the basics dead to nuts. And it takes days, not even weeks, certainly not the months or years that we see of some "veterans" still hand-over-hand-winding the factory coil; and urging susceptible unsuspecting newcomers to do so! Like me, who should've known better. Can you identify with that? "Oh yeah, just do six wraps." (CYA, wouldn't wanna BYA.)

When I found Metalhed's thread I was elated. I love to contribute. I thought that would be a great place for myself and hopefully others to round out the why's and wherefore's for those of us who really need to understand the mechanics, not just the method, to get things working right. As well as those who weren't getting the technique straight.

I think that understanding that flavor and vapor is about power and resistance is the goal. I'd like to see more of us get there sooner, buying serious gear, hopefully American and authentic in origin, cheaper as incentives to new entrepreneurs and retailers expand with such economies of scale. Beck it's going to take a heck of a lot more of us doing what I'm doing, I feel, for that to happen. Not just a tip here or there to help some get over.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Damn straight 2mm. The pic I posted of a tension wind was .5mm ribbon for a 2mm, 1.49Ω contact coil infinity (figure-eight, tied) wick on a black Immortalizer plus black and brass Titan, my current apparatus of choice.



Good luck. Thanks for the interest really. Hope this helps.

Happy holidays!

 

[TafkanX]

Built another vertical coil last night so I had one to vape on while I give the other it's first full cleaning (you can only scrape the inside with a paper-clip for so long). Built it on a 5/64 bit to give it more inside diameter and it occurred to me that my previous coil was also done on a 5/64 bit with the same reasoning in mind. So my previously posted data is slightly inaccurate. 10 wraps of 28g kanthal on a 5/64 bit for 1.5 ohms, which is consistent with the 1.6 ohms achieved the first time around. Both wicked with boiled 100% cotton balls. Next time I'll have a go with my 12g needle which is just a tiny bit larger in diameter and see if there's any improvement in performance. So far this coil is performing mostly identically to the first vertical coil, albeit with better wicking qualities than my very first build as I am getting more used to this wicking style.

Really loving 28g for how much easier it is to work with than, say, 32g (which I still use for all the coils I build for friends, mainly because it's what I have the most of).

Edit: Dangit, I forgot to take pictures!

Well, here's one I made for a friend the other day (horizontal coil, 6 wraps of 32g kanthal on a 14g finishing nail for ~2 ohms)

 

[Halcyon2501]

Hey all,

I'm working on building coils for the first time, using my PTII. I'm using RiP Tripper's Nano Micro Coil build for Kanger Protank 2 - YouTube as a guide. My first attempt wasn't exact to the video, as I didn't have the proper materials at the time, but the second was exact to RiP's specs.

First attempt:

• 1/16 drill bit
• 32 gauge Kanthal
• Swisspers organic cotton balls (Amazon.com: Organic Cotton Balls 80 Count: Beauty)
• Butane torch style cigar lighter for torching the coils
• 6 wraps resulting in a 2.0 Ohm coil
• 70PG/30VG juice

Second attempt:

• 20 gauge blunt needle
• 28 gauge Kanthal
• Swisspers organic cotton balls (Amazon.com: Organic Cotton Balls 80 Count: Beauty)
• Butane torch style cigar lighter for torching the coils
• 12 wraps resulting in a 1.0 Ohm coil
• 50PG/50VG juice

I'm getting good wicking and vapor production, but I'm finding the flavor is muted in both instances compared to the stock heads. Any idea why? Would appreciate any assistance...

 

[MacTechVpr]

Built another vertical coil last night so I had one to vape on while I give the other it's first full cleaning (you can only scrape the inside with a paper-clip for so long). Built it on a 5/64 bit to give it more inside diameter and it occurred to me that my previous coil was also done on a 5/64 bit with the same reasoning in mind. So my previously posted data is slightly inaccurate. 10 wraps of 28g kanthal on a 5/64 bit for 1.5 ohms, which is consistent with the 1.6 ohms achieved the first time around. Both wicked with boiled 100% cotton balls. Next time I'll have a go with my 12g needle which is just a tiny bit larger in diameter and see if there's any improvement in performance. So far this coil is performing mostly identically to the first vertical coil, albeit with better wicking qualities than my very first build as I am getting more used to this wicking style.

Really loving 28g for how much easier it is to work with than, say, 32g (which I still use for all the coils I build for friends, mainly because it's what I have the most of).

Edit: Dangit, I forgot to take pictures!

Well, here's one I made for a friend the other day (horizontal coil, 6 wraps of 32g kanthal on a 14g finishing nail for ~2 ohms)

Hey Taf, thanks for the feedback on those builds. I can confirm three successive builds for the KPT1 at precisely…

28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d. (2.5mm Silica), m.c.= 1.49Ω

These were not torsion (tension) winds but tight hand over hand winds precisely on that resistance checked on three separate devices, at least two meters and one VW mod (eVic most likely). So, it would seem you were a tad loose somewhere on that build. I can tell you from what I've seen lately is that pressure makes a significant difference in both output and performance of the wick and juice. I'm encouraging everyone to pay particular attention to wind tightness, along with the uniformity I've been writing about. Anyway this is back in Jul-Aug of this year and I was really diggin' 28g. I didn't have enough data to accurately target resistance but on the variables I was able to really push it out, the Sigelei's just loved it.

As I mentioned to Beck above I was localizing the coil on a stiff needle (for two reasons). First, to get the coil low in the slot, reduce wire length and so keep resistance as tight and low as possible for that wind. Secondly, to fill in the media, at that time silica, keep it tight to the coil and thereby mitigate any distortion to the coil geometry. I just didn't realize at the time just how fragile the last part is. That small incongruities too small for the eye to see are introduced in the set and these may affect the potential continuity of the coil. One of the indications are small variations to the high side in resistance and sometimes substantially lower (when the build looks spectacularly perfect). You scratch your head at times. I say, trust the meter. It's your friend. Adjust your wind technique and set approach until you're hitting it consistently dead on. I do strongly believe in recent weeks that the addition of torsion, metal memory, to vaporizing coils is the answer to attaining that repeatability. Perhaps overkill Taf? Well depends, on how consistent you want that great vape to be. If you can tolerate the variation in output wattage, the range is comfortable for you than you won't mind those minute variations in resistance +/-.1Ω.

Now I notice in your above build, a great example, some variability between all the turns and an obvious open end turn. By being able to situate on a precise mandrel that fits the slot you can get back in there, or when you localize, and precisely resize that coil through tension at the set. So, for example drop and tighten that high end turn so that you can get a precise cohesion at your final set pulsing. Even if you achieve it without a proper set…it will come loose with use. It's fighting to come back to the shape you see. With the metal memory of torsion, the helix is always fighting to resume the shape of a contact coil, even if the wind is skewed incidentally by rotation of the 510 connector say installing on a mod.

I would note that if left that way though continued use will undo the original wind torsion. It can be undone by enough application of external force or energy (heat), in other words normal use, and the metal thus re-formed. So we have to manicure the coils with use to keep 'em pretty. Tank fills is a good time. Re-wicking is another where, if localized with a a standard metric, you can reinsert that bit, retention and pulse to restore precise symmetrical contact.

What can I say? Once you get accustomed to seeing the persistent flavor and vapor of a precision wind set you tend to pursue it mercilessly.

So I guess I have become a fly fisherman after all.



Happy Holidays! Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey all,

I'm working on building coils for the first time, using my PTII. I'm using RiP Tripper's Nano Micro Coil build for Kanger Protank 2 - YouTube as a guide. My first attempt wasn't exact to the video, as I didn't have the proper materials at the time, but the second was exact to RiP's specs.

First attempt:

• 1/16 drill bit
• 32 gauge Kanthal
• Swisspers organic cotton balls (Amazon.com: Organic Cotton Balls 80 Count: Beauty)
• Butane torch style cigar lighter for torching the coils
• 6 wraps resulting in a 2.0 Ohm coil
• 70PG/30VG juice

Second attempt:

• 20 gauge blunt needle
• 28 gauge Kanthal
• Swisspers organic cotton balls (Amazon.com: Organic Cotton Balls 80 Count: Beauty)
• Butane torch style cigar lighter for torching the coils
• 12 wraps resulting in a 1.0 Ohm coil
• 50PG/50VG juice

I'm getting good wicking and vapor production, but I'm finding the flavor is muted in both instances compared to the stock heads. Any idea why? Would appreciate any assistance...

A suggestion for you, as the issue is a bit too complex to handle in one post. But generally, the lower the resistance the more vapor you will produce, the less flavor. Coupled that as we drop nic levels with that kind of vapor production you're introducing a recipe for bland taste. I would go back to the 1/16 and try…

30AWG, 8/7 1/16 (1.58mm) i.d., m.c. = 1.81Ω √; or even,
30AWG, 7/6 1/16 (1.58mm) i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √.

Go smaller to 28 I only have verified tests for 2mm…

28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d. (2.5mm Silica), m.c.= 1.62Ω

Two .20mm steps down to 1/16" with 2/3 turns up may get you back to 1.6Ω depending on the tightness of your wind. But this may also be a good baseline with great vaporizing surface. A 1/16 coil is the preferred wind for a great many PT microcoil users. You may find some reference results on this thread for that wind. I prefer about 1.75mm and ~1.5mm media, a bit more surface area at a given gauge. I found the VW Sigelei's performed very well at 1.6Ω, 8W.

Going any larger in gauge (32) is going to reduce the vaporizing surface and diminish the potential for flavor. I'm testing 29 AWG now as a compromise between surface area and manageability because I'm seeing impressive results with tension winding for both vapor and flavor. It's a subject that has been dealt with extensively in the microcoil threads (jig winding). It is though fairly easy to do with hand winding and gives immediate results. For localizing the coil see Metalhed's thread on wicking with cotton.

Use that as an experiment to establish your baseline of flavor. Please search the thread for the words tension/torsion and see some of my notes on symmetry and accurate location in the slot with termination. That will keep you tight to those resistance results and your output more consistent. I love Rip's video's, he's been a great motivator, but the flambouyant vapor production really is mostly about theater and you and I are after vapor and flavor.

Happy Holidays! Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

'm getting good wicking and vapor production, but I'm finding the flavor is muted in both instances compared to the stock heads. Any idea why? Would appreciate any assistance...

As a footnote to my above, it's really, really hard to get the right cotton density for a Protank.

That's why I feel strongly you have to find the right temperature set (coil build) first. Then you can perfect the density that tastes best for you (and your juice!).

Once you have that, then you can perfect it at other temperature (power, resistance) objectives.

A chart that may be helpful for resistance values and implications…

http://i.imgur.com/6oraBGI.png

Find out where you want to be on that chart. Build it.

Meant to tell ya.

Happy Holidays! Good luck.

 

[Whiplash205]

A suggestion for you, as the issue is a bit too complex to handle in one post. But generally, the lower the resistance the more vapor you will produce, the less flavor. Coupled that as we drop nic levels with that kind of vapor production you're introducing a recipe for bland taste. I would go back to the 1/16 and try…

I have to disagree here. I run my protanks with 1 ohm coils and get just as much flavor as the coils I used to build at 1.4. - 1.8. When I have flavor issues its because I fracked the coil up on the install or my wicking was off( one reason I started using cotton yarn. Consistent wicks every time). YMMV

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

 

[MacTechVpr]

I have to disagree here. I run my protanks with 1 ohm coils and get just as much flavor as the coils I used to build at 1.4. - 1.8. When I have flavor issues its because I fracked the coil up on the install or my wicking was off( one reason I started using cotton yarn. Consistent wicks every time). YMMV

I gather you disagree with the first sentence. It's a statement I've seen reiterated hundreds of times across this forum. And I don't dispute it. It stands to reason that the more energy you apply, the more vapor you produce. Therefore, the same flavor elements are dispersed across a larger volume, think liters, of vapor. I can't dispute those simple physics. Among the factors affecting vapor is atomized particle size. How sensitive an individual might be in detecting these changes, or tasting, those particles. Or the fact that 95% of taste is olfactory. That the brain's interpretation of these signals varies. But I agree with the multitude of affirmations on ECF. Not my opinion. If I'm mistaken, I didn't create the consensus I'm reporting. If that's what you mean by YMMV, some individuals might be different, we agree.

So Whip I'll grant you this. I am extremely flavor sensitive for a number of reasons. And I, like you, detect powerful flavor in sub-ohm delivery where the guy next to me would say meeeh, vapor tongue. So I see exactly where you're coming from. I'm not talking about me, and I'm not talking about you. I'm speaking to the guy who's trying to find the right for him. And that may very well be one ohm or even sub-ohm. But I'm not going to send a newb there. Get my meanin'? I'm not telling you what you should like; or, telling the gallery not to go there. I'm suggesting that someone who doesn't know does not begin at the end of the road but a reasonable center enjoyed by most. Does that make sense? For Protank builders as you've noted yourself that seems to be between 1.5 and 2.0Ω. I happen to agree that's a deep dense zone of flavor. Not the 1.8 to 2.4 factory build.

I don't disagree with you what we may certainly enjoy. I drip predominantly at 1.1-1.2Ω. But YMMV doesn't apply to the science. And there are two extremes, one at the sub-ohm end, one on the high-voltage end. On that score you didn't mention that I'm encouraging tight mechanically and electrically correct builds. That's what I'm talking about. What's essential to finding that flavor objective. Maybe you missed my intent. Flavor is a subjective experience for all of us. We need to have the right tools and methods for the job. That's my intent, to help identify those.

Happy Holidays whip. Good luck.

 

[EL Pistoffo]

So on the subject of PT rebuilds is there a reason why most coil rebuilds are usually 2.0 ohms and lower? My PT's have stock coils of 2.2 and 2.5 ohm and with cotton they are pretty decent. I prefer my cartos with 3.0 ohms much more than 2.0 ohms. I will soon be rebuilding my PT coils and would like to know if resistance on the higher end like 3.0 ohms is a no-no.

 

[MacTechVpr]

So on the subject of PT rebuilds is there a reason why most coil rebuilds are usually 2.0 ohms and lower? My PT's have stock coils of 2.2 and 2.5 ohm and with cotton they are pretty decent. I prefer my cartos with 3.0 ohms much more than 2.0 ohms. I will soon be rebuilding my PT coils and would like to know if resistance on the higher end like 3.0 ohms is a no-no.

The short answer: If you're enjoying 2.5Ω at say 8W, you'll get there too at 3Ω. You'll just require a lot more power.

I think some move down to lower resistance as you can get a lot of heat energy at lower resistance with lower voltage. Some insist absolutely there is more flavor there. For Protank users the zone does seem to be below the factory build. But 2.5Ω seems to be a good build as you can get out to 8.5W (with a variable mod) and still stay in the green zone. I'm often liking a warm richer vape on an Immortalizer lately and I can hit it at 1.7-1.8Ω with a fresh 10W batt on mech and stay good down to 3.8V.

So no problem P. At the end of the day it's about watts anyway, not ohms. How warm and flavorful you like your taste. For me it depends on my mood whether flavor or vapor, warm or cool, wet or airy, or somewhere in between. That's why I use a lot of different gear. Whatever your preferred temp target is, that's what you'll need to select resistance for (how that works with your favorite flavor). I'm focused on the mechanics of getting there for those comin' up so they know how to get it simply quicker, and exactly. Spent too much time, at the worst possible time while quitting, hand over hand winding like a twirl. Felt suckered following the herd. Then I took matters into my own hands. Started payin' attention to the vets on this forum that were really chasin' the vape. It's about temperature. Seems like you found it for the Protank and not sure why you'd go to a less efficient solution. I'd be more inclined to try a microcoil with more surface area at a lower resistance. Just sayin'.

Vape on.

Happy Holidays and good luck P.

 

[EL Pistoffo]

The short answer: If you're enjoying 2.5Ω at say 8W, you'll get there too at 3Ω. You'll just require a lot more power.

I think some move down to lower resistance as you can get a lot of heat energy at lower resistance with lower voltage. Some insist absolutely there is more flavor there. For Protank users the zone does seem to be below the factory build. But 2.5Ω seems to be a good build as you can get out to 8.5W (with a variable mod) and still stay in the green zone. I'm often liking a warm richer vape on an Immortalizer lately and I can hit it at 1.7-1.8Ω with a fresh 10W batt on mech and stay good down to 3.8V.

So no problem P. At the end of the day it's about watts anyway, not ohms. How warm and flavorful you like your taste. For me it depends on my mood whether flavor or vapor, warm or cool, wet or airy, or somewhere in between. That's why I use a lot of different gear. Whatever your preferred temp target is, that's what you'll need to select resistance for (how that works with your favorite flavor). I'm focused on the mechanics of getting there for those comin' up so they know how to get it simply quicker, and exactly. Spent too much time, at the worst possible time while quitting, hand over hand winding like a twirl. Felt suckered following the herd. Then I took matters into my own hands. Started payin' attention to the vets on this forum that were really chasin' the vape. It's about temperature. Seems like you found it for the Protank and not sure why you'd go to a less efficient solution. I'd be more inclined to try a microcoil with more surface area at a lower resistance. Just sayin'.

Vape on.

Happy Holidays and good luck P.

Well I've got 30g and 32g Kanthal A1 on the way. I too am more inclined towards more surface area. If that means microcoils with lower resistance than so be it. I've got a meter, lots of wire, lots of drill bits and screwdrivers and lots of heads so I can wind a lot of different coils and try them out. I'd just like to avoid wasting time building coils that are too far out there sort of speak. If there is a resistance range or # of wraps that are pointless or counter productive I'd like to know before wasting time making them. A little guidance in the right direction. It sounds like somewhere in the 1.5-2.0 ohms is a favorite of many. I'm not into warm vapor as much as into flavor. I found 2.0 ohm cartos to be very harsh, 3.0 ohms are perfect, cool and tasty. At the same time 2.2 or 2.5 ohm PT heads vape just fine to me as well so I don't think the behavior of coil resistance between BCC's and cartos can be treated exactly the same thus my uncertainty. I could be wrong.

I also adjust my mods by Voltage instead of Power for two reasons. First, even though my MVP 2 has VW, my eGo twists are VV only so I stick to their common denominator. Secondly, I see a Provari-Mini in my near future which is also VV. Therefore I want to be accustomed to Voltage settings.

 

[CloudZ]

Well I've got 30g and 32g Kanthal A1 on the way. I too am more inclined towards more surface area. If that means microcoils with lower resistance than so be it. I've got a meter, lots of wire, lots of drill bits and screwdrivers and lots of heads so I can wind a lot of different coils and try them out. I'd just like to avoid wasting time building coils that are too far out there sort of speak. If there is a resistance range or # of wraps that are pointless or counter productive I'd like to know before wasting time making them. A little guidance in the right direction. It sounds like somewhere in the 1.5-2.0 ohms is a favorite of many. I'm not into warm vapor as much as into flavor. I found 2.0 ohm cartos to be very harsh, 3.0 ohms are perfect, cool and tasty. At the same time 2.2 or 2.5 ohm PT heads vape just fine to me as well so I don't think the behavior of coil resistance between BCC's and cartos can be treated exactly the same thus my uncertainty. I could be wrong.

I used to run 1.6-1.8 ohms (32 gauge) in my EVODs, particularly because I use fixed-voltage Egos for everyday "moving around" vaping (I use mechs and RBAs while sitting at my desk, or sometimes while sitting elsewhere). Since I started running 30 gauge micro coils in them and my new MPT2, I find that 2.2 ohms or so is ideal. They are just more efficient, so I get just as much vape for a lot less power consumed. Try about 11 wraps of 30 gauge wrapped tight and touching around a 1/16" drill bit, that should get you in the ballpark. I believe about 7 or 8 wraps of the same diameter with 32 gauge is about the same resistance, but I don't microcoil with this because it makes the coil so narrow, and I don't notice much of an efficiency gain. I wouldn't run less than 1.5 ohms in a clearomizer unless using 28 gauge wire and a mech, since the heat buildup could be too much for the rubber grommet and the tiny confined wick. Even then, I wouldn't want to get too close to 1 ohm. IMO/IME of course.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I used to run 1.6-1.8 ohms (32 gauge) in my EVODs, particularly because I use fixed-voltage Egos for everyday "moving around" vaping (I use mechs and RBAs while sitting at my desk, or sometimes while sitting elsewhere). Since I started running 30 gauge micro coils in them and my new MPT2, I find that 2.2 ohms or so is ideal. They are just more efficient, so I get just as much vape for a lot less power consumed. Try about 11 wraps of 30 gauge wrapped tight and touching around a 1/16" drill bit, that should get you in the ballpark. I believe about 7 or 8 wraps of the same diameter with 32 gauge is about the same resistance, but I don't microcoil with this because it makes the coil so narrow, and I don't notice much of an efficiency gain. I wouldn't run less than 1.5 ohms in a clearomizer unless using 28 gauge wire and a mech, since the heat buildup could be too much for the rubber grommet and the tiny confined wick. Even then, I wouldn't want to get too close to 1 ohm. IMO/IME of course.

I think your observations on resistance are damn close. But I've been down below 1.3Ω on the KPT with 28AWG on 1.58mmØ no problem; not with heat, or inordinate heating of the element or insulator. It's in the lack of symmetry and tightness of the coil where problems arise. As you head to the extremes of voltage or resistance, that's where incongruity of the coil is going to be more evident. ECF is strewn with info on the greater heat, flavor, vapor output and speed of contact coils (micro coils) so no need for me to expound on this. I've also posted proof regarding the validity of "the effect" elsewhere in this thread on the science behind the microcoil. It provides more heat with a given input and faster response, ads to the durability of the element and contributes greatly to avoiding overheating and premature failure, its very design averting the possibility of incidental contact of turns (hot turns, hot ends, hot legs) when properly done.

Secondly, as I've noted and others on more advanced threads, torsion or tensioning of microcoils adds substantially to their efficiency. I also have more recently observed through more than a dozen builds that torsion enhances the preceding with the added apparent benefit of inhibiting deleterious effects to fluids and wick media (discoloration, fouling). These are further indications of improved efficiency. The process of hand winding by rotation off a spool I've described on this thread and elsewhere make it utterly simple for anyone to do a precise unfettered contact coil. This substantially improves the uniformity of a coil by introducing metal memory. It avoids the need to torch the coil reducing handling and potentially weakening it at the start. So I urge all to try this method. Save time, juice and aggravation. It's much more straightforward fellas.

Well I've got 30g and 32g Kanthal A1 on the way. I too am more inclined towards more surface area. If that means microcoils with lower resistance than so be it. I've got a meter, lots of wire, lots of drill bits and screwdrivers and lots of heads so I can wind a lot of different coils and try them out. I'd just like to avoid wasting time building coils that are too far out there sort of speak. If there is a resistance range or # of wraps that are pointless or counter productive I'd like to know before wasting time making them. A little guidance in the right direction. It sounds like somewhere in the 1.5-2.0 ohms is a favorite of many. I'm not into warm vapor as much as into flavor. I found 2.0 ohm cartos to be very harsh, 3.0 ohms are perfect, cool and tasty. At the same time 2.2 or 2.5 ohm PT heads vape just fine to me as well so I don't think the behavior of coil resistance between BCC's and cartos can be treated exactly the same thus my uncertainty. I could be wrong...I also adjust my mods by Voltage instead of Power for two reasons. First, even though my MVP 2 has VW, my eGo twists are VV only so I stick to their common denominator. Secondly, I see a Provari-Mini in my near future which is also VV. Therefore I want to be accustomed to Voltage settings.

30AWG, 11/10 1/16" (1.58mm) i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √ #292 MrOcelot

Is the last reported tight low for Cloudz's wind (which I've hit successively). When you get around to it LMK and I'll try and revisit it with you for validation of you like. I think you'll be happier with a screwdriver shank diameter often seen of 1/43" (about 1.76mm) which should give you a res. just closer to 2.2Ω and more coil surface. This Ø also will more easily permit easier threading of 1.5mm silica and Ekowool as well as cotton and my recommended ceramic braided wick, Nextel XC-132, which threads and flows superbly at these two dimensions. If you want even more surface contact area, try the wind at either with 29 AWG which should put res. somewhere between the two winds, ~2.1-2.2Ω. So there you have four precision flavor targets P to fine tune your output and wick choices. Not a bad days work.

P I would also suggest you stick to these two Ø as both, whether a bit or screwdriver shank, will drop to the bottom of the slot on a Protank and other heads so you can keep the coil rock solid during installation and tightly terminate the exit alignment of the legs. The latter is crucial to keeping that coil tight and a contact coil (microcoil) during its life. If you queer the alignment during installation running current through it will only build the misalignment into the coil instead. That's why a lot of folks have problems with what they thought was the "perfect" build. But they seldom see, or report, how shabby it looked coming out. Let me put it this way, we're human, none of us are perfect. And I've thrown far more such coils out than I've used and kept. Sh!!t happens. <shrug> So blame the work, not the build. The build works if you make it right.

Really thanks to both of you for your questions and input. It's this kind of collaborative exchange that I hoped to see to help newcomers adapt through observations of our attempts here at targeting flavor goals through temperature. The resulting contributions you will make by posting your verified resistance results. I've earlier noted some suggestions on what confirmations to make with resistance checks to declare a validation. And don't forget temperature. It's important to note the wattage you prefer to operate at to determine if were talking about a safe range. The voltage chart is our roadmap.

Happy Holidays to you both.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

There seems to be a resurgence of interest in the Nextel product...

Is there a link to this wicking material
Nextel ceramic XC-132
I am all about trying something new to improve the quality of "MY" vape.
You are so right about how it is tailored to your needs and style.

Hey Pepple, thanks for your interest. I've been studying and testing this material extensively for almost four months. It is a highly heat resistant thermal insulator sheathing for electrical wire — the perfect wick. It does not disembowel itself with heat and vibration as does silica to produce its wicking magic. It does so by nature of its finely delicate but tightly woven linear density. It's flavor remarkably close to cotton but less colored. More so in use as it doesn't foul to the extent that cotton does. So in effect it's utility is superior. Its durability far more so than any other potential non-metallic wicking media we know (except for ceramic wicking stone). There are quite a number of threads discussing it or dedicated to it since the flurry of interest in alternatives to silica (the scare) earlier this year. I took interest in this evolution but folks gave up too quickly including vendors and contributors to this forum that I've spoken and corresponded with. I've concluded that the issues were not the material, it wicks with a flow through (or potential) unlike any other material we're using; rather, it's related to material preparation, the exploration of which is in its infancy for vaping, and the fact that our very own techniques of designing coils and building were in a state of flux and maturation. I seized this opportunity to join two threads, lend a hand with research and sharing some of my results with this community and some retailers across the country in the hopes of generating better results among vapers and greater satisfaction with their product choices. I think that's good for the community and good for business, which we need to support us with their reliable product offerings!

There are two, just two, suppliers left for this product because of the premature and unfounded abandonment of this alternative. I mention them and a broader explanation with my post on the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion-29.html thread at…

Post #284: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ank-microcoil-discussion-29.html#post11506140

At present only SnG Vapor carries both the XC 116 (~3mm) and the XC-132 (~1.6mm). Both are hollow core and can be internally threaded! And the 1.6mm literally flows through that core. I believe consequently this allows the coil to run cooler during vaporization which gives it a host of benefits as a wicking medium. I routinely insert a needle to promote this phenomena during tank fills. But that's another discussion.

RBA Supplies does not as yet carry the XC-132 wick but I've had encouraging and interested conversations with the owner and believe he has the foresight to invest in this community and the potential future of this wicking media for us. I would suggest inquiry and encouragement if you like the product.

Thanks again very much for your interest Pepple. I think I might join you shortly on the Kayfun newb thread. See if I can learn something and pitch in as I start building mine.

Happy Holidays! Good luck.

I've posted an answer and update on availability and sourcing of Nextel ceramic wick material as above. If any interest to discuss this theme, I'll redirect my answers and post to the existing Nextel wick thread…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/455177-xc-116-ekowool.html

Happy Holidays! Good luck all.

 

[EL Pistoffo]

Thanks guys for the invaluable input. I'll get back with the results in the next few days.

 

[M_DuBb716]

Excellent information in the past page or so!! You guys really broke down the science behind the micro in the past page or so. Thank you Mac, Cloudz, and El Pistoffo (lol great name)

 

[MacTechVpr]

Excellent information in the past page or so!! You guys really broke down the science behind the micro in the past page or so. Thank you Mac, Cloudz, and El Pistoffo (lol great name)

Well ya know M, can't help ourselves. We gotta have the year end wrap-up!

Happy Holidays! Good luck.

 

[EL Pistoffo]

Just made my first micro coil build for my mini PT 2. It was a success. About 11 wraps of 30g Kanthal A1. Measured out to 2.2 ohms.

It has an interesting behavior. Compared to the stock kanger coil, it takes a little longer to heat up. I couldn't get the coils to compress together side by side as tight as I wanted to but it still fit in the head, a tight fit with little room to spare.

The vapor is plentiful. Flavor a little more subtle than the stock head but I think it may be more accurate. The reaction of the coil is a bit delayed as I already mentioned so a very brief pause exists before the juice really starts cooking. Used a single strand of cotton as always with no dry hits, leaks or flooding.

I expect my coils to come out more polished after a few builds but overall i'm happy.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Just made my first micro coil build for my mini PT 2. It was a success. About 11 wraps of 30g Kanthal A1. Measured out to 2.2 ohms.

It has an interesting behavior. Compared to the stock kanger coil, it takes a little longer to heat up. I couldn't get the coils to compress together side by side as tight as I wanted to but it still fit in the head, a tight fit with little room to spare.

The vapor is plentiful. Flavor a little more subtle than the stock head but I think it may be more accurate. The reaction of the coil is a bit delayed as I already mentioned so a very brief pause exists before the juice really starts cooking. Used a single strand of cotton as always with no dry hits, leaks or flooding.

I expect my coils to come out more polished after a few builds but overall i'm happy.

Congratulations! Out of the gate, as it should be. It seems you pay attention to detail and that's what you need here.

You will see ways to tighten the coil itself and leg termination with a little practice. The big deal is getting them straight and tight in the direction that they're coming off the wind. That's what limits the occurrence of loose end turns and hot spots in turns within the coil. These reduce the efficiency, are often seen as variations in resistance during use and can really affect the vape, both flavor and vapor. So tight here means reasonably taught as to the wire. Tight overall being the symmetry of the coil. That's what's going to get you the temperature, vapor and flavor at the end of the day. Try winding off the coil under tension while rotating the wire off the spool to your screwdriver. Reasonable pressure and you'll be amazed how tight that coil gets to begin with. After that, several pulses should see the coil glowing from the center, no problem. You're doing great. Wish I'd found those instructions first week I was vaping.

Good luck P. Happy Holidays.

 

[fiddleshe]

I'll qualify that because I've been concentrating lately on builds incorporating Nextel XC-132. It has a cross-section of about 2mm but is hollow. It's a tad loose in a 2mm coil winding; and, a bit snug in 1/16" (1.5875mm). I'm looking for a good set of metric precision screw drivers that include 1.6 and 1.8mm because what I'm really looking for is an optimal fit for the wick media. The whole struggle here is getting it in! And for me doing it in place is far more stable. Less chance of damaging the coil you crafted so carefully after it's been nicely tested and burned in. A shame really. Plus making sure you don't constrain the flow (easy to do with hand winds) or it's too loose and perhaps invites flooding.

To me it's about fit. When it's right and it's really right at 1.75mm and Nextel the saturation is dead on (on Protanks). For 2mm high grade silica, high temp (it's different), it's a bit more compact than standard silica and fits well and snug in 2mm. It's the devil to pay inserting it. Ekowool, I've seen much diameter variation and the appropriate fit for the wick is usually too tight to insert manually with any speed. It takes me less than 10 sec to wick Nextel. Pull some out of the pouch, pretwist the wick a little bit and moisten the tip slightly (not much or it bloats a bit) then let it unwind into the coil with a bit of forward pressure. You may see some bit of fraying from the many weaves that make up the surface. But they're seldom more than .2-.3mm, fold neatly back onto the material and slide on through. Even re-wicking used coils in place is a breeze despite coil carbonization. Too heavy an oxidation layer and it should be replaced anyway. It's gonna fail, or break from handling. I take them out of service. That said, I've not popped one yet (of these in-place rebuilds).

The material [Nextel] is a pleasure to work with. And...the flavor is different but to my senses less colored than cotton, even washed cotton. Nowhere near as nuanced as Ekowool which has a very distinctive taste to me (I would say rather it better conveys the more vegetable base attributes of juices. So if you're pure VG like me, pop! Some might call it greasy. Think sitting outside MacDonald's. And for me, I taste the plant itself. At least that's my take on the flavor side of Eko. In fact that might be a more accurate rendering of the actual flavor. Now cotton, to answer the above post, I just have to experiment with the right density for the build. I don't see any other way other than to use a standard cotton product such as candle wick. It's not repeatable. And that's my problem with it. We all have our bad days where we can't build a blessed thing. Cotton doesn't make that easier. But it is a consistent flavor result in that it's forgiving. Too loose I find it to be too airy lacking flavor, too dense the wick you get great flavor but not enough of it. Just right, boom! Heaven. Hard to predict, but you know it when you see it.

Bottom line we want to build quickly and consistently. Easy to do on RDA's with cotton (my preferred). Takes some imagination and technique with the clearo's.

Good luck and we'll see ya here. Drop a note with your results.

A quick search on ebay for "1.75mm steel" came up with all kinds of interesting things to use to wrap coils on. My favorite that I saw in my quick search was US size 2-0 knitting needles. They are nice and long and can be cut down to any length. You could also do multiple wraps on it before you pull them all off, I would assume. I know a lot of cheap knitting needles are made out of aluminum and I dont have any clue what burning on thin aluminum (or if you can even get that size in aluminum because of the strength factor) would do but there were quite a few of them on ebay that were stainless steel or other kinds of steel. I am assuming at that diameter they would also be solid instead of hollow like many knitting needles.

Just an idea.