Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Hi Bill, good hear from you. Been a while.

If adhesion of alumina is occuring (helping to hold one wind affixed to another) then how are you detecting it?

cig

You too Cig Man.

As I said, adhesion of alumina is occurring. This is well established. The part you added in parentheses are your words, not mine, and, perhaps the second or third time that you have intentionally twisted my words. Bad habit....friend. Here's what I said, unaltered:

No adhesion? Crazy talk. Tell that to the Alumina. Of course, adhesion is taking place.

No, I was responding to your rather overly broad statement about there being NO ADHESION, in your humble opinion....LOL!

So imho neither adhesion or fusing is happening. If anyone still has doubts and would like to see part 3 just say so. I'd love to talk on grain boundary migration, electron/proton relationships and atomic orbit radii!!!
Just kidding.........or aaaam I? Lol
Hope this gives those of you with inquiring minds something to google!
cig

Perhaps you meant something else. I find your Google Gobbledy Go*k quite amusing, Cig. Keep it up, perhaps you are on to something. I wish you well in your vape Quest!

 

[crg31953]

Hey Folks,

I'm interested in trying some of the stainless PT's but have no desire for dual coils. I also don't want to monkey with oblong coils around two pieces of wicking material to take up space in the base slot.

I'm curious as to what you might be doing to accomplish a single micro coil and not have leak or gurgle issues.

Vape On My Friends!

 

[cigatron]

You too Cig Man.

As I said, adhesion of alumina is occurring. This is well established. The part you added in parentheses are your words, not mine, and, perhaps the second or third time that you have intentionally twisted my words. Bad habit....friend. Here's what I said, unaltered:



No, I was responding to your rather overly broad statement about there being NO ADHESION, in your humble opinion....LOL!


Perhaps you meant something else. I find your Google Gobbledy Go*k quite amusing, Cig. Keep it up, perhaps you are on to something. I wish you well in your Vape Quest!

Bill, maybe you overlooked the title of my original posts part 1 and part 2. Or perhaps skimmed the body of the text and missed where I stated that alumina adheres to the surface of the wire. Either way. All good.

What I was trying to communicate in the posts is that I can't detect adhesion of the winds to one another. I don't believe that is happening and the science does not support it.

Good to see you posting here.

cig

 

[cigatron]

Hey Folks,

I'm interested in trying some of the stainless PT's but have no desire for dual coils. I also don't want to monkey with oblong coils around two pieces of wicking material to take up space in the base slot.

I'm curious as to what you might be doing to accomplish a single micro coil and not have leak or gurgle issues.

Vape On My Friends!

Crg, I start with a "concealed wick" dual coil head.

1. Yank out the crappy coils.
2. Stick a punch or screwdriver through the bottom of head to knock out the chimney.
3. Drill a 5/64" hole through the sleeve wickslots and the head wickslots at the same time.
4. Remove the sleeve to deburr it and the head
5. Build as normal
6. Replace sleeve
7. Insert wick.
7-1/2. Hammer chimney back on. Really! Lol
8. Blow clouds

It is possible to use smaller coils but you must rotate the sleeve 90° or so before drilling. You'll understand when you see how big the sleeve wickslots are.

cig

 

[clnire]

Chanel, a couple of things can cause that. Twisting off of the leads after coil set instead of clipping them off. Also failing to ensure that the legs enter the grommet at the points that make them exit the coil at a perfect 90° angle to the coil axis.

The wire gets soft when heated and things can move around if all is not just right.

cig

Hummm, I confess I get lazy at times and twist off the excess wire and don't always pay attention to how the wire is perfectly seated in the grommet in respect to the coil. This makes so much sense I will take extra care from here on. Always learning and getting better!

Thanks!

 

[chanelvaps]

As long as I am keeping the mandrel in place the legs should be in the right place too right? Is the grommet the same thing as the insulator?

Chanel, a couple of things can cause that. Twisting off of the leads after coil set instead of clipping them off. Also failing to ensure that the legs enter the grommet at the points that make them exit the coil at a perfect 90° angle to the coil axis.

The wire gets soft when heated and things can move around if all is not just right.

cig

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Bill, maybe you overlooked the title of my original posts part 1 and part 2. Or perhaps skimmed the body of the text and missed where I stated that alumina adheres to the surface of the wire. Either way. All good.

What I was trying to communicate in the posts is that I can't detect adhesion of the winds to one another. I don't believe that is happening and the science does not support it.

Good to see you posting here.

cig

Didn't miss a damn thing Cig Man. You can't have both adhesion, and then say no adhesion at the same time. That's my point. Thank you for making it for me.

I just take exception when people twist my words. It's ok to apologize, btw. 'Grown-ups do it all the time.

As I said, adhesion is going on with our micro coils. You said there was no adhesion. You misspoke. I get it. You read my post wrong. I get it.

I don't suspect any of us know the answer to the adhesion question without about a $2M definitive lab study. You may be right about it. I do know that tensioned micro coils produce an "Effect" that non tensioned micro coils don't produce. I've never seen it described scientifically, but long before either of us got here, those that have been doing this a lot longer than us were able to detect it, and most of us switched to the micro coil because it works better - "The Effect" is real. Tensioned micro coils, even more so. Scientific? No. Empirical by a couple million vapers? Absolutely. My work is in microbiology, not material chemistry. While there is some overlap, it's not definitive, and who cares anyway. We're all after the best vape, not the Nobel prize. I recognize the scientific method, and I also recognize non-scientific, speculative SWAG. See it and write about it all the time.

I quit posting here or following this thread a while back because this thread got so offtrack. So, if a subject is not about Protank micro coils, it should probably be posted somewhere else. We need to get back to the purpose of this thread....PROTANK MICRO COILS. I'm down for it. I've seen some really good folks here get slammed unfairly by non-scientific types. We need your help, and the help of other members to stop this BS. Hope we can count on you!

 

[cigatron]

Didn't miss a damn thing Cig Man. You can't have both adhesion, and then say no adhesion at the same time. That's my point. Thank you for making it for me.

I just take exception when people twist my words. It's ok to apologize, btw. 'Grown-ups do it all the time.

As I said, adhesion is going on with our micro coils. You said there was no adhesion. You misspoke. I get it. You read my post wrong. I get it.

I don't suspect any of us know the answer to the adhesion question without about a $2M definitive lab study. You may be right about it. I do know that tensioned micro coils produce an "Effect" that non tensioned micro coils don't produce. I've never seen it described scientifically, but long before either of us got here, those that have been doing this a lot longer than us were able to detect it, and most of us switched to the micro coil because it works better - "The Effect" is real. Tensioned micro coils, even more so. Scientific? No. Empirical by a couple million vapers? Absolutely. My work is in microbiology, not material chemistry. While there is some overlap, it's not definitive, and who cares anyway. We're all after the best vape, not the Nobel prize. I recognize the scientific method, and I also recognize non-scientific, speculative SWAG. See it and write about it all the time.

I quit posting here or following this thread a while back because this thread got so offtrack. So, if a subject is not about Protank micro coils, it should probably be posted somewhere else. We need to get back to the purpose of this thread....PROTANK MICRO COILS. I'm down for it. I've seen some really good folks here get slammed unfairly by non-scientific types. We need your help, and the help of other members to stop this BS. Hope we can count on you!

Edited part2 to read "of adjacent winds". Hope that clears things up. Sorry Bill.

cig

 

[cigatron]

As long as I am keeping the mandrel in place the legs should be in the right place too right? Is the grommet the same thing as the insulator?

Yes, insulator/grommet. I've heard it used interchangeably.

With the coil centered on the mandrel the legs should be pointing the way to their desired position. A little care when setting the insulator and pos pin and they'll stay right there. Pulling a little crooked on the legs while tensioning them can cause them to shift so I always check for perpendicularity of the legs to the coil right before trimming them off. If it's wrong I pull the legs whichever direction needed to line them up then trim.

Good luck

cig

 

[chanelvaps]

Gotcha-thanks
I remember the first few I built. I just twisted them to where I thought they should be and tried to fire away. NOT

Yes, insulator/grommet. I've heard it used interchangeably.

With the coil centered on the mandrel the legs should be pointing the way to their desired position. A little care when setting the insulator and pos pin and they'll stay right there. Pulling a little crooked on the legs while tensioning them can cause them to shift so I always check for perpendicularity of the legs to the coil right before trimming them off. If it's wrong I pull the legs whichever direction needed to line them up then trim.

Good luck

cig

 

[Mazinny]

Received a shipment of grommets and pins from Lightning Vapes today. Been trying my hand at building vertical coils ... So far an abject failure. These are tough to place properly. I am so used to resting my screwdriver or drill bit in the slot. Haven't found a way yet to stabilize the coil in place while terminating the legs and placing the grommet and pin. Gonna stop now and try again in a couple of days when i'm not agitated. Perhaps i will come up with a solution when i'm not thinking too hard about it.

On a different note, has any one here considered purchasing a dna 40 device. Thoughts on building with Nickel wire ? .2 ohm coils in a pt !!!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Received a shipment of grommets and pins from Lightning Vapes today. Been trying my hand at building vertical coils ... So far an abject failure. These are tough to place properly. I am so used to resting my screwdriver or drill bit in the slot. Haven't found a way yet to stabilize the coil in place while terminating the legs and placing the grommet and pin. Gonna stop now and try again in a couple of days when i'm not agitated. Perhaps i will come up with a solution when i'm not thinking too hard about it.

On a different note, has any one here considered purchasing a dna 40 device. Thoughts on building with Nickel wire ? .2 ohm coils in a pt !!!

Good morning maz. Gettin' ambitious are we? Listen about the most comprehensive exploration of the v.m.c. I've seen is...http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-micro-coil-build-aro-evod-protank-heads.html It's still active and there's a wealth of info on there. Just never had time to explore rad builds for the KPT.

I haven't explored Ni wire. I don't think it has the thermal conductivity that Kanthal has or temp resistance. It has some spalling and decay issues at high temp. Still many swear by it. Maybe someone else is more qualified to comment on this. Don't have any direct experience.

Good luck maz.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Good morning maz. Gettin' ambitious are we? Listen about the most comprehensive exploration of the v.m.c. I've seen is...http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-micro-coil-build-aro-evod-protank-heads.html It's still active and there's a wealth of info on there. Just never had time to explore rad builds for the KPT.

I haven't explored Ni wire. I don't think it has the thermal conductivity that Kanthal has or temp resistance. It has some spalling and decay issues at high temp. Still many swear by it. Maybe someone else is more qualified to comment on this. Don't have any direct experience.

Good luck maz.

Isn't nickel used as a non-conducting metal on certain builds. I've used it on GG pieces because it was non-conductive. Unless I'm mistaken, we're barking up the wrong tree here.

 

[leekeylee]

Received a shipment of grommets and pins from Lightning Vapes today. Been trying my hand at building vertical coils ... So far an abject failure. These are tough to place properly. I am so used to resting my screwdriver or drill bit in the slot. Haven't found a way yet to stabilize the coil in place while terminating the legs and placing the grommet and pin. Gonna stop now and try again in a couple of days when i'm not agitated. Perhaps i will come up with a solution when i'm not thinking too hard about it.

On a different note, has any one here considered purchasing a dna 40 device. Thoughts on building with Nickel wire ? .2 ohm coils in a pt !!!

If I may jump in re vertical micro coils in protank heads, what I have been doing is once I have the coil made and the legs bent down, whilst it is still on my drill bit is wrap muji cotton around the coil first then whilst it is still on the drill bit is place it all in to the cap so the drill bit sticks out the bottom. I find then with the cotton already in place it keeps the coil in the correct position in the cap/head section, then place the rubber gromet and pin on the botton.

Because I use a 1.5mm drill bit the gromet and the pin holes are wide enough for the drill bit to go through so I don;t remove the drill bit until it is fully assembled.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Isn't nickel used as a non-conducting metal on certain builds. I've used it on GG pieces because it was non-conductive. Unless I'm mistaken, we're barking up the wrong tree here.

Gmornin' Bill. I think perhaps maz means NiChrome.

Good luck.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Gmornin' Bill. I think perhaps maz means NiChrome.

Good luck.

Well, that would be very different. Nichrome has a distinctive taste that I don't care for. Apparently, though, not everyone can taste it, and a whole lotta stuff out of China is nichrome.

 

[CryoGen]

Mazinny. perhaps you could find something with a T handle to wrap your coils on then the T could rest on top of the coil holder. The link that Mac provided shows a needle being used.

 

[Mazinny]

Gmornin' Bill. I think perhaps maz means NiChrome.

Good luck.

Nah, i mean Nickel ! it is very very low resistance, and Bll is right that it is used as non-conducting metal on some builds, but it's the wire to use if you want to take advantage of the temperature control feature of the dna 40 chip.

Btw i ran the numbers though Steam Engine, and for my standard 2.0 mm and 2 ohm coil for the pt, i would need 157 wraps of Nickel wire 29 gauge !

You are mostly aiming for the 0.1 to 0.2 ohm range with Nickel.

 

[Mazinny]

Isn't nickel used as a non-conducting metal on certain builds. I've used it on GG pieces because it was non-conductive. Unless I'm mistaken, we're barking up the wrong tree here.

Hi Bill ! welcome back to the thread !!

 

[Mazinny]

If I may jump in re vertical micro coils in protank heads, what I have been doing is once I have the coil made and the legs bent down, whilst it is still on my drill bit is wrap muji cotton around the coil first then whilst it is still on the drill bit is place it all in to the cap so the drill bit sticks out the bottom. I find then with the cotton already in place it keeps the coil in the correct position in the cap/head section, then place the rubber gromet and pin on the botton.

Because I use a 1.5mm drill bit the gromet and the pin holes are wide enough for the drill bit to go through so I don;t remove the drill bit until it is fully assembled.

Yes wrapping cotton around before insertion is a good idea ! If the drill bit is sticking out the bottom, how do you get the gromet and pin in ?