Provari on an Oscope vs Vamo

[AnsonJames]

My (former) Vamo rattled like hell and had a noticeably different hit than my Provari - I would definitely be able to tell the difference blindfolded, the Provari is a lot smoother.

Something that might be worth mentioning is that I tried pulsing the hotspots on an rba on the Provari and Vamo, both at the same voltage using .15 Kanthal.
The Vamo always popped the coil on the rba, despite operating at the same voltage in RMS - there are temperature differences - the vape is harsh/less refined as a result.

Despite all the science and equations, it's something that becomes very apparent just from vaping both devices - nothing psychosomatic - it's very apparent.

 

[Koman]

Yeah, Provari is really good! Very smooth!

 

[Stephenst4470]

My (former) Vamo rattled like hell and had a noticeably different hit than my Provari - I would definitely be able to tell the difference blindfolded, the Provari is a lot smoother.

Something that might be worth mentioning is that I tried pulsing the hotspots on an RBA on the Provari and Vamo, both at the same voltage using .15 Kanthal.
The Vamo always popped the coil on the RBA, despite operating at the same voltage in RMS - there are temperature differences - the vape is harsh/less refined as a result.

Despite all the science and equations, it's something that becomes very apparent just from vaping both devices - nothing psychosomatic - it's very apparent.

Interesting, I build all of my Gennies (8 of them, between my wife and I) on my Vamo because it's so much more convenient and never have a problem popping coils. I also have a 2 Provaris, Buzz Pro, Segelei ZMax, Saber VV Max etc, the Vamo is just the most convenient for quickly checking resistance and moving power up/down quickly. VW is also better for dealing with a short, as when resistance drops, the regulator will reduce voltage automatically to maintain wattage, unlike a VV device which will continue to dump a fixed amount of voltage into the coil. The Provari is a also little annoying for building a Genesis because it fires the coil (albeit at reduced power) when checking resistance, where the Vamo or Segelei doesn't. If you are consistently popping coils there is possibly a problem with how you are oxidizing your wicks, unless something was seriously amiss with your Vamo, and in need of repair.

 

[motox]

I've got no dog in this fight, but I've been testing the theory. Same carto moving between my Provari Mini and my zMax tastes the same, sounds the same, feels the same. Neither one tastes "creamier" than the other, "tastier" than the other or anything else like that. Which one do I prefer? Both actually Depends on my mood and the decision is purely out of aesthetics and has zero to do with any perceived performance difference. I do like the VW function on my zMax as it allows me to move from tank to tank without having to fiddle with voltage settings (the carts vary in resistance). I do like the form factor of the mini as it is less obtrusive when out and about. But then we start seeing differences in battery life. Six of one, half dozen of another I suppose. Which one would I consider my "go-to" mod? Probably my zMax. YMMV and thats what makes this whole vaping deal so cool. Everyone has unique tastes. Find something you like, stick with it and have no expectations that your tastes trump all. But I would suggest to keep an open mind as the technology is rapidly evolving. Just because something (PV, delivery mechanism, batteries) were the bomb in 2011 doesn't mean that there will never be anything better.

 

[Ravalstoney]

The only way I can relate this info to compare it to a television. I KNOW a flat screen at 60hz its a lot more choppy looking than a 600hz plasma. Of course where that analogy fails in comparison to e-cigs is that taste buds aren't as sensitive as good eye sight, so when I hear people say that can't tell the difference I can easily believe that. That didn't mean that I can't.
The provari was my first mod and recently, I won a Vamo in a vape meet. I had been using the provari all week before I tried the Vamo and I can say there is a difference ( same tank and voltage). Before this thread I just didn't know why.
I had a conversation with a guy at the meet and he told me that a mechanical can't be beaten when it comes to a smooth drag. I didn't believe it really, but now I can see it. That dc signal versus a pulse.
Looking into getting another mod soon, and now in thinking I may have screwed myself getting a provari first. The only mod I know of that fires faster is the evic. The itaste also puts out a flat dc signal. Both zmaxes, the SVD and lavatube all for at the same rate as a Vamo. I've already written them off.



Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ravalstoney]

The only way I can relate this info to compare it to a television. I KNOW a flat screen at 60hz its a lot more choppy looking than a 600hz plasma. Of course where that analogy fails in comparison to e-cigs is that taste buds aren't as sensitive as good eye sight, so when I hear people say that can't tell the difference I can easily believe that. That didn't mean that I can't.
The provari was my first mod and recently, I won a Vamo in a vape meet. I had been using the provari all week before I tried the Vamo and I can say there is a difference ( same tank and voltage). Before this thread I just didn't know why.
I had a conversation with a guy at the meet and he told me that a mechanical can't be beaten when it comes to a smooth drag. I didn't believe it really, but now I can see it. That dc signal versus a pulse.
Looking into getting another mod soon, and now in thinking I may have screwed myself getting a provari first. The only mod I know of that fires faster is the evic. The itaste also puts out a flat dc signal. Both zmaxes, the SVD and lavatube all for at the same rate as a Vamo. I've already written them off.



Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

Itaste MVP has a flat signal.*

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

 

[junkman]

The only way I can relate this info to compare it to a television. I KNOW a flat screen at 60hz its a lot more choppy looking than a 600hz plasma. Of course where that analogy fails in comparison to e-cigs is that taste buds aren't as sensitive as good eye sight, so when I hear people say that can't tell the difference I can easily believe that. That didn't mean that I can't.
The provari was my first mod and recently, I won a Vamo in a vape meet. I had been using the provari all week before I tried the Vamo and I can say there is a difference ( same tank and voltage). Before this thread I just didn't know why.
I had a conversation with a guy at the meet and he told me that a mechanical can't be beaten when it comes to a smooth drag. I didn't believe it really, but now I can see it. That dc signal versus a pulse.
Looking into getting another mod soon, and now in thinking I may have screwed myself getting a provari first. The only mod I know of that fires faster is the evic. The itaste also puts out a flat dc signal. Both zmaxes, the SVD and lavatube all for at the same rate as a Vamo. I've already written them off.



Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

I think that the analogy fails way before the eye and the taste buds. The pixels of a television are much more responsive than the wire of a coil. Not even in the same realm of measurement.

Think about a 60hz vs 600hz TV if the pixels took 1/10th of a second to respond to a signal. At that level of responsiveness, would there be a difference?

Then think about the output from those pixels. Light. Light travels very fast. The output from a coil is a vaporized liquid.

IMO, when a claim is made that 37 cycles per second results in a different vapor than 800 or a flat current, they ignore the fact that the coil and the vapor produced do not react that quickly.

 

[PLANofMAN]

...IMO, when a claim is made that 37 cycles per second results in a different vapor than 800 or a flat current, they ignore the fact that the coil and the vapor produced do not react that quickly.

Just as you ignore the fact that they really do react that quickly, hence the "rattlesnake" sound. If they did not respond that quickly, the sound output would be nothing but the steady hiss of vaporizing steam. I thought that this had already been scientifically proven in this thread?

 

[CountSmackula]

Jebus Fluxing Crispies! Will this thread NEVER die?

 

[AnsonJames]

I think that the analogy fails way before the eye and the taste buds. The pixels of a television are much more responsive than the wire of a coil. Not even in the same realm of measurement.

Think about a 60hz vs 600hz TV if the pixels took 1/10th of a second to respond to a signal. At that level of responsiveness, would there be a difference?

Then think about the output from those pixels. Light. Light travels very fast. The output from a coil is a vaporized liquid.

IMO, when a claim is made that 37 cycles per second results in a different vapor than 800 or a flat current, they ignore the fact that the coil and the vapor produced do not react that quickly.

I love that fact that you can come here and state that you're unequivocally, categorically and 100% certain that there's a difference between the vape from a flat DC device and a PWM device - and someone will still tell you that you're mistaken.
I don't really care what the science says, it's not just noticeable and it's very, very apparent that there's a difference.

I could tell the difference blindfolded, I'd need ear muffs too as I'd be able to hear the "rattlesnake" sound - if you can hear the difference, why is it so hard to believe you can taste the difference?

It's obviously doing something to the vape if it's audible...

 

[AnsonJames]

From http://vivavaping.com/ARTICLES/VOLTAGE.html

So having my test rig set up, a spreadsheet, meter and some voltage sources I started to collate the data. What I found was the DC voltage, as expect was linear and repeatable - if I selected 3.0 volts I got the heating eect in the coil from a steady 3.0 volts. However, with a PWM running at 3.0 Average Volts, I got between 25% to 30% more heat from the coil for than the same DC volts. This altered through the range of voltages and was sometimes up to 50% higher but the average across all voltages tested was around 25% to 30%. The interesting part is the VRMS tests came out as showing around 20% less heat than the equivalent DC voltage. I can’t be 100% sure of the reason it shows a lower reading, but I’d probably guess it’s something to do with the switching on and o that the PWM does aecting the heating up of the coil and causing a lower heat output.

So from my ndings I’ve found that using a VRMS voltage is much closer to the real world vaping experience but needs a little boost of around 20% to make it close to spot on. Not once have I seen any evidence of any of the mod manufacturers performing these sorts of tests to eectively tune their device outputs. So you have to be someone forewarned to know of the possible dierences. So the next time you see a PWM regulated device come onto the market, you will be able to have some idea what’s going on inside them and why some hit harder than others at the same set voltage.

There is a new development now that the ZMAX and the new VAMO mod now contains an option to use VRMS voltage which is a massive improvement on the original system they were using. However there’s still a few issues being found when using them but the systems are now in place to start moving forward and getting things right so everyone can get a decent vape from them without the worry of burning up your atty if you’re in the right mood. The new thing though is Variable Wattage Vaping where you can set a wattage and it will adjust the voltage automatically depending on what resistance your atty is so you can in theory get the same vaping experience no matter what the conguration is you are running. This seems to have a few issues with the latest low price mods, but that is a dierent story altogether....

 

[junkman]

Just as you ignore the fact that they really do react that quickly, hence the "rattlesnake" sound. If they did not respond that quickly, the sound output would be nothing but the steady hiss of vaporizing steam. I thought that this had already been scientifically proven in this thread?

Nah. I think conjecture only, no scientific proof.

Just like the conjecture that the sound would have any impact on vapor.

Again, maybe there are some VAMOs that are working differently, or maybe it depends on attachment, but there is no rattlesnake on my VAMO with my RBA.

Think about cars. The original VW bug sounded like a sewing machine. Compare it to a 12 cylinder Ferrari.

You can definitely hear a difference in the sound, there is a different frequency to the combustion. However, both can drive at a steady 60mph. The VW, if working properly isn't stuttering between speeds averaging out to 60mph. It provides a consistent 60mph. Same as the Ferrari, despite different combustion rates.

Now, you can say that a VW is junk compared to the Ferrari, or that the Ferrari feels better, or is more fun or prestigious, or even that it makes you feel like you are a better driver. But you can't say that the 60mph delivered from the VW is different than the 60mph delivered from the Ferrari.

 

[John Alexander]

so how can we sum this thread up in a sentence?

Everybody on this forum is an engineer, except me.

 

[Rader2146]

Think about cars. The original VW bug sounded like a sewing machine. Compare it to a 12 cylinder Ferrari.

You can definitely hear a difference in the sound, there is a different frequency to the combustion. However, both can drive at a steady 60mph. The VW, if working properly isn't stuttering between speeds averaging out to 60mph. It provides a consistent 60mph. Same as the Ferrari, despite different combustion rates.

For as much as you were concerned about thermal inertia, you sould be able to make the connection to the faulty logic in this analogy.

 

[junkman]

Think about cars. The original VW bug sounded like a sewing machine. Compare it to a 12 cylinder Ferrari.

You can definitely hear a difference in the sound, there is a different frequency to the combustion. However, both can drive at a steady 60mph. The VW, if working properly isn't stuttering between speeds averaging out to 60mph. It provides a consistent 60mph. Same as the Ferrari, despite different combustion rates.

For as much as you were concerned about thermal inertia, you sould be able to make the connection to the faulty logic in this analogy.

Why don't you tell me what you think is the faulty logic, then we can discuss whether you have a point.

 

[AnsonJames]

Nah. I think conjecture only, no scientific proof.

Just like the conjecture that the sound would have any impact on vapor.

Again, maybe there are some VAMOs that are working differently, or maybe it depends on attachment, but there is no rattlesnake on my VAMO with my RBA.

Think about cars. The original VW bug sounded like a sewing machine. Compare it to a 12 cylinder Ferrari.

You can definitely hear a difference in the sound, there is a different frequency to the combustion. However, both can drive at a steady 60mph. The VW, if working properly isn't stuttering between speeds averaging out to 60mph. It provides a consistent 60mph. Same as the Ferrari, despite different combustion rates.

Now, you can say that a VW is junk compared to the Ferrari, or that the Ferrari feels better, or is more fun or prestigious, or even that it makes you feel like you are a better driver. But you can't say that the 60mph delivered from the VW is different than the 60mph delivered from the Ferrari.

Oh god, car analogies.

I've got a Provari, I had a Vamo.
My Vamo "rattled" but not with RBA's - everything else rattled on it though.
The vape is noticably different on the Vamo.


The Provari has a nicer vape than the Vamo, a twist at 4.5 volts compared to a Vamo at 4.5 volts is nicer too.

So there.

 

[PLANofMAN]

...a twist at 4.5 volts compared to a Vamo at 4.5 volts is nicer too.

So there.

^^^Now that is funny, and very apt.

 

[CountSmackula]

Let's consider Godwin's Law invoked and call this thread DONE.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Let's consider Godwin's Law invoked and call this thread DONE.

From wikipedia:
"...It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized corollary that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful."
...and no one has compared anything to either Nazi's or Hitler, so Godwin's Law has not been invoked.

 

[CountSmackula]

From wikipedia:
"...It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized corollary that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful."
...and no one has compared anything to either Nazi's or Hitler, so Godwin's Law has not been invoked.

It was worth a shot.