Provari on an Oscope vs Vamo

[Plumes.91]

I just bought an eVic. After all this time with my provari I'm about to find out how these chinese mods are vaping.
I started out with chinese VV with the ORIGINAL flat top lavatube. Hated the provari back then. Hated provari ppl.
Haha. Then I bought a provari after I broke my lavatubes button from sanding off the black & polishing the tube.
I really dont remember the differences because I couldn't vape them side by side unfortunately.
I do remember burning my cartos easily with the LT. I never used a clearo or wick style delivery system with it.
When I get my eVic, I'm gonna finally have a chance to look at these things side by side.

Does anyone know the true difference between the Vamo vs eVic vs Zmax/Smax? I am hearing Vamo > eVic?
Hopefully the eVic will be a nice device, despite the fact that I know the technology isn't the same as the pro.

 

[tnt56]

I hear you. I will never criticize the provari, and am not a fanboi of any device. There are a lot of differences between the provari and the vamo. There are a lot of ways to vape and a lot of ways to skin a cat. I come on here to learn and exchange ideas. I thought the OP was interesting information, and I learned something from reading it. But some of the comments are just bad information. When I see bad information, I will call it out.

The idea that modulating voltage at 37 cycles per second would cause juice to cycle between burning and being cold is just bad information. The voltage cycles which results in the coil achieving a certain temperature. The spikes in voltage do not spike the wire temp. Obviously, if you think about it the coil is not going from extremely hot to cold 37 times each second.

I don't recall saying that 37 cycles per second would cause juice to cycle between burning and being cold. I just said I'm don't like the haters of any device. And like you I will call it out when I feel I should.

 

[tnt56]

Plumes I just got a Lava tube a couple of days ago, and yea I really do like it. Very light weight IMHO. Nice vape also. Besides a friend of mine got their vamo ripped off at work and I'd rather have a $50 mod stolen than a $200 mod. But that's me. I try and never leave my mod laying around but when you get busy and your hands are full. Well you know the story.

 

[xsphat]

Everyone on the Provari subforum seems ... a little shellshocked. I'm new to this place, so are you guys often hated on? Do trolls frequent this place and come on just to mess with you?

I'm here because, even though I don't like tube mods, my job is ending so I need a mod and batteries that'll last until I find a new job, which could be years in all truth. I've looked hard at about 25 mods, so now I'm here.

 

[GrimmTech]

The idea that modulating voltage at 37 cycles per second would cause juice to cycle between burning and being cold is just bad information. The voltage cycles which results in the coil achieving a certain temperature. The spikes in voltage do not spike the wire temp. Obviously, if you think about it the coil is not going from extremely hot to cold 37 times each second.

I cant imagine it going from completely hot to completely cold 37 times a second. I do stand by my vaping observation that the vape from the ProV is much smoother. I didnt replace my vamo because of the vape quality. I replaced it because of quallity issues. Already on my 2nd Vamo and this one was starting to flake out. If I had replaced it with another vamo, I would be $180 into it with shipping costs. Same as my ProV. My grandmother used to say "It doesnt cost much more to go first class the first time around" Nothing can be more true than talking about low quality control on the chinese mods. My vamo vaped fine when it worked right. If I hadnt had problems I would have never replaced it. Just getting tired of issues. What I was completely surprised as was the quality difference in the vape. Its was just a pleasant added bonus. That led me to do some research to see what it was all about. Without a doubt, a more solid voltage produces a much smoother vape than and slower (even though 37hz is fast) larger pulse.

 

[Slurp812]

I cant imagine it going from completely hot to completely cold 37 times a second. I do stand by my vaping observation that the vape from the ProV is much smoother. I didnt replace my vamo because of the vape quality. I replaced it because of quallity issues. Already on my 2nd Vamo and this one was starting to flake out. If I had replaced it with another vamo, I would be $180 into it with shipping costs. Same as my ProV. My grandmother used to say "It doesnt cost much more to go first class the first time around" Nothing can be more true than talking about low quality control on the chinese mods. My vamo vaped fine when it worked right. If I hadnt had problems I would have never replaced it. Just getting tired of issues. What I was completely surprised as was the quality difference in the vape. Its was just a pleasant added bonus. That led me to do some research to see what it was all about. Without a doubt, a more solid voltage produces a much smoother vape than and slower (even though 37hz is fast) larger pulse.

A light bulb is similar. 120 times per second its on and off. The coil in a carto wont heat and cool down that fast, so in reality i dont think it would make a big difference. It would only take adding a capacitor to the output to smooth it out a bit...

 

[dam718]

But obviously that isn't what happens. The coils don't react that fast, so the average is fine.

I am pretty certain that your ears tell you different every single time you fire your device at anything less than 6 volts...

I would agree that when dry, this may be the case... When the coil is wet, it is flashing the fluid in immediate contact with the coil into vapor, it is NOT bringing the fluid temeratures up to reach the average temp of the coil. You can HEAR the sizzle of this fluid being vaporized...

In the case of the ProVari, this sizzle is constant, you can literally hear that the coil is maintaining its temperature the whole time the device is being fired.

In the case of the Vamo you can clearly hear that there are breaks in the sizzling sound of juice being vaporized. This is because the heat decay time surrounded by fluid at an extreme temperature differential is too fast to maintain an average temperature high enough to continue to vaporize the fluid during off cycle periods. The indisputable FACT that you can hear this rattlesnake sound is proof that the coils do indeed "react that fast" when under the effect of a catalyst, in this case a coolant... No kidding, Propylene Glycol is the same stuff used as the cooling agent in Anti Freeze... It keeps your engine block from glowing red hot, and it works wonders in knocking the heat of your atomizer coil off in a split second...

If your coil truly did not react that fast, and the average was fine, as you claim, then you would hear a constant sizzle with the Vamo as well.

I think something we can all agree on here is... You can hear the Vamo rattling all up and down the voltage range... If it's not sizzling, it's too cold to vaporize fluid... Vamo is only sizzling when on cycle... and I promise you, you are likely burning fluid at it's peak voltage. So, taking reaction times of the coil in to play... Assuming you are reaching the intended heat of the coil at 6V, you are only achieving the "sweet spot" heat range twice per cycle, and only as the temperature is shooting from well below the intended heat range, to well above the intended heat range, and again well below... Two times in that cycle, and only for a miniscule portion of the heating and decay did you actually achieve the sweet spot heat for your fluid. Your coil spends much more time well below, or well above this intended heat range...

So what you are able to achieve is not a true representation of the taste of your juice. It is a very jumbled up and down vapor that the "average" of burnt flavors and sweet spot flavors achieved have triggered your taste buds into a state of tom foolery where the perceived flavor is acceptable.

I really wish I was making all this up... LoL

You don't need an O-Scope, and you don't need to believe any of us "fan boys" If a Vamo works for you, that's awesome...

But if you let your ears and taste buds be the judge... Well, I know FOR ME, I can HEAR and TASTE a noticable difference when using the ProVari compared to the Vamo. I own and use both... All other variables being the same, vaping with the ProVari gives a fuller flavor than the Vamo each and every vape... No question about it.

 

[dam718]

A light bulb is similar. 120 times per second its on and off. The coil in a carto wont heat and cool down that fast, so in reality i dont think it would make a big difference. It would only take adding a capacitor to the output to smooth it out a bit...

The coil in your light bulb is in as close to a perfect vaccuum as we can create here on earth... Surround that coil in juice, and your findings would be radically different...

 

[GrimmTech]

so in reality i dont think it would make a big difference.

Im not trying to step on anyone's toes or start an arguement, but it DOES make a big difference. I was skeptical until I pulled the carto tank off my vamo and stuck it on my ProV for the first time. Im even feeling the effects of the nicotine much faster, or in many less draws. The only way I CAN explain it was to do my testing. I know what the result is, but didnt know the science behind it. Its the only thing it can be. I agree its going fast enough to trick a volt meter into thinking the output is constant but you cant fool an oscope. I also cant fool my senses. Something to think about adding a capacitor.. the cap would have much more effect on a 30hz ckt than a 800hz one. Lower frequency = higher resistance. I think you already know that though, since you understand a light bulb pulses 120 times a second instead of the 60hz of commercial AC. Also getting a cap that would be low enough impedance (2-3ohms) on a circuit that is a 30hz would be tough as its a very low frequency for a cap and cause high resistance.

 

[GrimmTech]

Dam you posted twice to my once lol. Your explination of the coil in a coolant is excellent. It even makes more sense to me now after reading your post. TY sir. At least now I have an answer to "why is it so much better".

 

[GrimmTech]

I also notice a very creamy smooth mouth feel from the ProV that I didnt get with the Vamo. Like its all coated with oil? lol

 

[GrimmTech]

And the ProV hasnt spit juice into my mouth like the Vamo loved to do. Again not bashing the Vamo, it will be my backup for now (till I nag the wife into a mini ;D) just trying to state facts and experience.

 

[apdb90]

I got a VAMO not too long ago, and was considering a ProVari. Money wasn't really a consideration (that probably didn't come out right.....it wasn't a consideration in that both were within my budget). I'll probably go with a PV at some point, but what turned me off to it was what is referred to in the high end multi mode flashlight world as the "tail cap tap dance" to adjust it. Nothing I hate more. I understand it's probably a design feature for them, but I hope a model comes sometime in the near future with an adjustment set up similar to some other models. Otherwise, I think that anyone saying that a VAMO is better than a ProVari is..well, I don't want to get into name calling. It's probably a better overall value at the price-that's one thing you have to give it. But there's no doubt that the ProVari is a better product in just in every category but price (until they start dying and you're buying multiple units).

 

[dam718]

I agree its going fast enough to trick a volt meter into thinking the output is constant but you cant fool an oscope.

Not true... With a vAVG DMM, it cannot track the output of a Vamo... Only if you set it to trigger (on expensive meters) would you see any voltage at all, which would be 6V.

You will only see an output voltage close to your set voltage on a meter that can read vRMS, which are prohibitively expensive for what most of the vaping crowd use a meter for. You can get a decent vAVG meter for $25 at Wal Mart... You have to go to an electronics shop to pick up a vRMS meter, and the crappiest of the crappy meters will run you over $100, a "good" one will be closer to $300...

A simple $25 vAVG meter can track the output of a ProVari all day long...

Try it

 

[dam718]

Dam you posted twice to my once lol. Your explination of the coil in a coolant is excellent. It even makes more sense to me now after reading your post. TY sir. At least now I have an answer to "why is it so much better".

Just trying to keep it real LoL...

 

[jimmyh]

Nice job

 

[GrimmTech]

I have a home electronic repair hobby business. Prohibitively expensive for a vaper is not so far out of range for an electronic repair guy. I will have to check if my fluke will read RMS. Not that I really need one since I have two oscopes lol. One thing I would like to have that I do not is a signal injector, or variable AC power supply with varriable frequency.

 

[EvilOne]

sorry for going OT but I haven't seen an Oscope since my helo repair days in the Marine corps hehe. Nice to see science behind it and know that I didn't buy into hype. Although the taste test was what convinced me most.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Everyone on the Provari subforum seems ... a little shellshocked. I'm new to this place, so are you guys often hated on? Do trolls frequent this place and come on just to mess with you?

I'm here because, even though I don't like tube mods, my job is ending so I need a mod and batteries that'll last until I find a new job, which could be years in all truth. I've looked hard at about 25 mods, so now I'm here.

Trolls will be trolls. They come here when things get slow on the conspiracy theory forums.

If you don't like tube mods, then the ProVari probably isn't for you. Now, having said that, the ProVari is durable enough to fit your requirements if "lasting for years" is high on your list of priorities. You would probably be happier with a mechanical mod, with no or minimal electronics and zero wiring. I've heard good things about the Reo Box Mods lately. They seem to fall into the same durability category as ProVari's and are in the same price range. At least for the basic and mid-range models. They also have a blemish sale section on their site that might be worth checking out. The other alternative is a full mechanical mod. Those have no electronics and few moving parts to break or lose.

The VV/VW Vamo can be modified into a gripper style mod, with about 4 hours of work, access to a drill press and some files. I've owned a Vamo, and after my experience with them, I would be reluctant to recommend one to somebody who needed a long term, reliable APV.

You might want to look at the ProVape 1 mod as well. It never gets mentioned.

 

[dam718]

BTW, is that an OLD school Tektronix o-scope you've got pictured in the OP?

That looks like the scope I learned how to use like... 20+ years ago And it was old then!

Used to use that old beast for scoping out photocells and read/write heads in the vaccuum chambers of reel to reel tape drives... And for scoping out flip flops and bangin gates while troubleshooting old I/O converters and memory modules. You know, when one computer took up the entire floor of a building...