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Provari on an Oscope vs Vamo

Discussion in 'ProVari' started by GrimmTech, Feb 14, 2013.

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  1. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Signature Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2012
    Woodburn, OR
    I don't notice it so much while I'm vaping, but I notice it big time when I'm dry burning a new coil. It sounds like someone crushing a handful of dried leaves. I am hearing impaired, so that might be why I don't hear it when I'm vaping, but I agree, it's unmistakable.

    On the other hand, I guess it would be hard to hear it if you put ear plugs in and shouted "LA, LA, LA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" while firing the Vamo, but what do I know?
     
  2. zapped

    zapped Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Willing to put money on that? Im 100 percent sure I could tell the difference in vape between a Vamo and a Provari while blindfolded. I'll even let someone else hold the devices, thats how sure I am.

    Part of that comes from using the same juice delivery system and juices like Dam178 mentioned above. If I were changing out juice delivery systems left and right and mixing that up with different juice flavors like youve stated you prefer in other threads, the results may be a little confused.
     
  3. junkman

    junkman Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Louisville
    I guess it must come down to either differences in set up (RBA in my case) or Chinese mfg. variances. I assure you there is no difference in sound between my VAMO and my Legacy.

    The audiophile comment was more in line with tasting a difference between the two (assuming properly functioning/no rattlesnake sample).

    I think the thermal inertia of our coils is high enough that 37 cycles per second is sufficient to maintain coil temperature, at least on my RBA. I read somewhere that the thermal inertia of a common light bulb filament is around 10ms. This would mean 1/100th of a second. My 30 gauge kanthal is much, much thicker and the would have to be significantly longer.

    If the vamo cycles 37 times a second, the you are talking about 74 peaks and troughs. So a thermal inertia of kanthal of 1/74th second would mean a stable coil temp. I would guess that the thermal inertia of 30 gauge kanthal is much higher than a light bulb filament, maybe by an order of magnitude or higher, particularly when wrapped around a stainless steel wick. Therefore a VAMO should have no issues maintaining a stable coil temp with such a set up.
     
  4. denali_41

    denali_41 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 7, 2011
    Over Der
    struggling to prove your non provari device is just as good as a provari if funny
     
  5. mrwilliams2

    mrwilliams2 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
    Greenville, NC
    I can tell you the button still works on my ProVari. I can't say the same for my Vamo. When the Vamo stops working after two weeks, it fires at exactly 0 cycles per second. Is that high enough to maintain coil temprature?

    18350's also last me a lot longer (a couple of hours) in my ProVari than they do (did) in my Vamo. To me, that says something about what's going on inside each device. Why does the Vamo require more power?
     
  6. dam718

    dam718 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 30, 2012
    Hawaii
    As I stated before, the filament of a light bulb is sealed in a vaccuum chamber. This provides an environment which is much more forgiving with regards to thermal decay.

    I don't think you're offering enough credence to the contention that surrounding your Kanthal coil with a coolant drastically alters it's thermal decay time.

    Surely you have noticed that while dry burning your coils will glow, and while wet they will not glow? The same cooling factors of the liquid that prevent it from glowing red are still in effect as soon as you stop firing the coil for any reason, be it that you released the fire button, or that the PWM is in an off cycle...

    Surrounding the coil in liquid is going to result in a thermal decay that is much faster than if it were in a vaccuum...
     
  7. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Signature Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2012
    Woodburn, OR
    Why do you keep bringing this up? The issue has nothing to do with stable coil temperature. If anything, the Vamo heats up faster and stays hotter than the ProVari for longer. The problem is that you will look at that as a good thing. The Vamo is an inferior product with more functions than a ProVari.

    I own both a Vamo and a ProVari. You could make the Vamo out of solid gold and it would still be a piece of junk. It does what it does well while it lasts, but the way the internals are mounted with press fit and glue, leaves much to be desired. A simple retaining clip or silicone pad under the buttons would solve half of the problems people (including me) are having with the Vamo. It was a short honeymoon. :(

    Edit: I realize that this post probably makes me look like a ProVari fanboy. I'm not. Rather it's that the Vamo has serious flaws in it's design that make the buttons prone to fail. If they can fix that, it will be a decent entry into the VV/VW mod scene for beginners or for those on a tight budget. But users should not expect the Vamo to match the ProVari in performance and build quality, because it doesn't.
     
  8. junkman

    junkman Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Louisville
    Good points. But again, 1) I have compared to a mechanical device that is direct current. No oscillation. And hear no difference, see no difference and taste no difference. 2) it is also wrapped around a rather large by comparison heat sink that likely helps to hold the temp. Example vape for a while and the wick remains hot to the touch.

    In the end, I have to go by #1) above which is in my experience there is no difference between a 37 per second cycle and direct current. Your experience may vary and it would be interesting to figure out why. But if I can't discern a difference between direct current and a 37/s cycle, why would I be able to discern a difference with an 800/s cycle?

    As I said before, I am not attacking provari. They are great devices. The only issues I have with Provari are 1) amp limit is on low side, 2) I don't like the menu system much, 3) no VW.

    But I realize that those issues are not issues for others and I could definitely live with any of them if need be. My intention on this thread was never to dismiss provari, but to correct statements such as those that the VAMO alternates between burning juice and cold juice. That just isn't the way it works.
     
  9. zapped

    zapped Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Maybe youre taste deaf. :p
     
  10. junkman

    junkman Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Louisville
    Yeah, maybe taste def, blind and just regular deaf.

    Maybe that makes me lucky!
     
  11. SavePaperVapor

    SavePaperVapor Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 5, 2009
    Minnesota, USA
    Ok. I just took my 357 at 4.2 volts off of a Provari and a Zmaxx. You can definitely tell the difference. You can feel the quick burst of 6 volts right at the very beginning. Weird. Of course if I wasn't doing a side by side it wouldn't matter. Kind of like hd tvs. You go to the store and one looks slightly better than another one next to it. Get it home and does it really much matter?
     
  12. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Signature Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2012
    Woodburn, OR
    No, but that's not the point. The point is how many frames per second is each T.V. putting out?:p Makes all the difference in the world.;)

    ...So I've been told.
     
  13. zapped

    zapped Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran


    It would if you were used to watching the better TV all the time. If people were constantly attacking the better model saying theirs was just as good (when it clearly isnt) then you might be compelled to correct them about it as well.
     
  14. dam718

    dam718 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 30, 2012
    Hawaii
    Do we need to have a Samsung vs. LG vs. Sharp thread too? :D I can tell a difference!!

    I'm glad there are other people out there that can hear the rattlesnake effect of these chinese 33.4Hz oscillators, cause I was starting to think I was crazy...

    I mean seriously, I am sitting here with a cheapie smoktech 510 bridgeless atomizer swapping back and forth from the vamo to the provari and saying to myself, man I am hearing the difference... Am I crazy? Are my ears just shot? Am I making this up to satisfy my desire to want my $200 device to be better than my $40 device? Surely not...

    LoL!!
     
  15. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Signature Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2012
    Woodburn, OR
    Why bother, when everyone knows the Sony Bravia is better than any of them.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. junkman

    junkman Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Louisville
    I keep bringing it up, because if you read the comments, that is what is being disputed.

    I don't dispute the provari is a better made device.

    I have had my VAMO since November and haven't had any problems with it. If mine had crapped out already I likely would have a lower opinion of it as well. If it lasts 5 more years (ha, doubtful), it would be impressive, but I still wouldn't claim it was bettermade than a provari.

    However, I certainly wouldn't relegate it to new users or budget buyers based on my experience.
     
  17. junkman

    junkman Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Louisville
    Did someone say you were making up that your VAMO with a 510 atomizer was making the noise?

    I said it doesn't on my VAMO with my RBA.

    Perhaps on a smaller coil/wick mine would too. Can't say. But I am not going to bother buying a 510 just to check, and none of my 510 atomizers work anymore.

    I do have some cartos and a couple stardusts at home some where I will try to check when I get a chance. And then I will let you know. Hopefully I will hear it, then we will all be in agreement!
     
  18. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Signature Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2012
    Woodburn, OR
    It took seconds to quench inch thick red hot metal that I've welded. I would imagine the time required to quench a wire that is already surrounded by liquid is in the nanosecond range, which would fit with what everyone else has been trying to tell you. Hot, Cold, Hot, Cold, etc.

    The overall temperature of the wire would remain high, but not high enough to constantly reduce eliquid to vapor, but hot enough to burn someone who touches it.

    Edit: ...and I didn't say that the Vamo should be "relegated to new users or budget buyers." I said that "If they can fix [the button issue], it will be a decent entry into the VV/VW mod scene for beginners or for those on a tight budget." Nowhere in my statement do I imply that only newbies should buy a Vamo.
     
  19. GrimmTech

    GrimmTech Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 18, 2012
    West Virginia
    Junkman, Im not saying 37hz isnt fine. Your mechanical mod is 0hz lol. I think more the lack of quality in vape with the Vamo is from the 6v difference in each pulse.. from wide open to completely off. The ProV at 37hz still wouldnt rattlesnake because it only drops 0.05volts from the peak. That makes the difference.
     
  20. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Signature Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2012
    Woodburn, OR
    It provides "stable coil temp."
    It provides "stable coil temp."
    It provides "stable coil temp."
    It provides "stable coil temp."
    It provides "stable coil temp."
    [​IMG]
    I'm starting to see a trend.:p
     
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