Provari on an Oscope vs Vamo

[junkman]

I don't recall saying that 37 cycles per second would cause juice to cycle between burning and being cold. I just said I'm don't like the haters of any device. And like you I will call it out when I feel I should.

No, you didn't. And I didn't say that your did. You did say something about keep hate to yourself, so I was explaining no hate involved.

 

[junkman]

I cant imagine it going from completely hot to completely cold 37 times a second. I do stand by my vaping observation that the vape from the ProV is much smoother. I didnt replace my vamo because of the vape quality. I replaced it because of quallity issues. Already on my 2nd Vamo and this one was starting to flake out. If I had replaced it with another vamo, I would be $180 into it with shipping costs. Same as my ProV. My grandmother used to say "It doesnt cost much more to go first class the first time around" Nothing can be more true than talking about low quality control on the chinese mods. My vamo vaped fine when it worked right. If I hadnt had problems I would have never replaced it. Just getting tired of issues. What I was completely surprised as was the quality difference in the vape. Its was just a pleasant added bonus. That led me to do some research to see what it was all about. Without a doubt, a more solid voltage produces a much smoother vape than and slower (even though 37hz is fast) larger pulse.

I agree that the VAMO is not in the same league as Provari regarding quality and service. A provari will long outlast a VAMO.

 

[xsphat]

Trolls will be trolls. They come here when things get slow on the conspiracy theory forums.

LOL, nice. I'm kind of afraid to post here because it's really hard to translate my sarcasm to print without coming off sounding like a jerk.

I don't like tube mods that much, but I like the Reos even less. I'll find out next week whether my ax date moved up with the most recent management restructuring. Scary times. I think the Provari makes sense for me because I like to have VV and regulated current, and I just don't trust Chinese mods or eGo-Cs for the long haul. It would probably be best to buy 2 mods - one with a chip and one mechanical.

I saw that Provape-1 on the Provape site but I can't find a thing about it on the net. What's up with that? Is it just a 3.7v mod made of steel with a fancy button? If so, that price is fairly competitive, but it looks even more like a sex toy. The Provari looks more like a lightsaber, which isn't all that bad I guess.

 

[junkman]

I am pretty certain that your ears tell you different every single time you fire your device at anything less than 6 volts...

I would agree that when dry, this may be the case... When the coil is wet, it is flashing the fluid in immediate contact with the coil into vapor, it is NOT bringing the fluid temeratures up to reach the average temp of the coil. You can HEAR the sizzle of this fluid being vaporized...

In the case of the ProVari, this sizzle is constant, you can literally hear that the coil is maintaining its temperature the whole time the device is being fired.

In the case of the Vamo you can clearly hear that there are breaks in the sizzling sound of juice being vaporized. This is because the heat decay time surrounded by fluid at an extreme temperature differential is too fast to maintain an average temperature high enough to continue to vaporize the fluid during off cycle periods. The indisputable FACT that you can hear this rattlesnake sound is proof that the coils do indeed "react that fast" when under the effect of a catalyst, in this case a coolant... No kidding, Propylene Glycol is the same stuff used as the cooling agent in Anti Freeze... It keeps your engine block from glowing red hot, and it works wonders in knocking the heat of your atomizer coil off in a split second...

If your coil truly did not react that fast, and the average was fine, as you claim, then you would hear a constant sizzle with the Vamo as well.

I think something we can all agree on here is... You can hear the Vamo rattling all up and down the voltage range... If it's not sizzling, it's too cold to vaporize fluid... Vamo is only sizzling when on cycle... and I promise you, you are likely burning fluid at it's peak voltage. So, taking reaction times of the coil in to play... Assuming you are reaching the intended heat of the coil at 6V, you are only achieving the "sweet spot" heat range twice per cycle, and only as the temperature is shooting from well below the intended heat range, to well above the intended heat range, and again well below... Two times in that cycle, and only for a miniscule portion of the heating and decay did you actually achieve the sweet spot heat for your fluid. Your coil spends much more time well below, or well above this intended heat range...

So what you are able to achieve is not a true representation of the taste of your juice. It is a very jumbled up and down vapor that the "average" of burnt flavors and sweet spot flavors achieved have triggered your taste buds into a state of tom foolery where the perceived flavor is acceptable.

I really wish I was making all this up... LoL

You don't need an O-Scope, and you don't need to believe any of us "fan boys" If a Vamo works for you, that's awesome...

But if you let your ears and taste buds be the judge... Well, I know FOR ME, I can HEAR and TASTE a noticable difference when using the ProVari compared to the Vamo. I own and use both... All other variables being the same, vaping with the ProVari gives a fuller flavor than the Vamo each and every vape... No question about it.

1) Vamo doesn't make the pbusardo "rattlesnake" sound that he has shown on some devices, ie. sizzle is constant to my ears. 2) There is no way 37 times a second can't hold a steady coil temp. 3) Never said you are making it up. Expectations play a large part in perception. Demonstrating that the voltage cycles does not in any way demonstrate that the heat of the coil is cycling. How many cycles per second do you think are necessary to achieve stable coil temps? 20? 50? 200? 800?

I am in no way attacking Provari here. I am just saying that cycling of voltage is NOT a meaningful difference in how the devices vape or the juices taste. There may be other reasons for your experience.

 

[dam718]

1) Vamo doesn't make the pbusardo "rattlesnake" sound that he has shown on some devices, ie. sizzle is constant to my ears. 2) There is no way 37 times a second can't hold a steady coil temp. 3) Never said you are making it up. Expectations play a large part in perception. Demonstrating that the voltage cycles does not in any way demonstrate that the heat of the coil is cycling. How many cycles per second do you think are necessary to achieve stable coil temps? 20? 50? 200? 800?

I am in no way attacking Provari here. I am just saying that cycling of voltage is NOT a meaningful difference in how the devices vape or the juices taste. There may be other reasons for your experience.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but have you compared the "sizzle" you get from a Vamo, to the "sizzle" of a device that has a constant DC voltage? It's very apparent to me, especially when I do side by side comparisons between the sound of a Vamo compared to that of the ProVari.

And I don't assume you are attacking the ProVari I don't really consider myself a fanboy of the ProVari, although I may come off as one. My opinions are based on real world experience having extensive side by side use of both devices using the same atomizers on both. And by same, I mean I unscrew it from the Vamo and immediately screw it down on the ProVari and vape it...

What I have found is that with higher resistance cartomizers, the difference is subtle because you are running the Vamo at a higher voltage to get to your sweet spot. At higher voltages, the duty cycle is higher, which would minimize the rattlesnake sound... On my RBA's with low resistance coils around 1.5 ohms, I run them at 3.5 - 4 volts... And I definitely notice the rattlesnake sound with the duty cycle around 60%... It sounds like one of those sprinklers they use to water a golf course... I can hear it pulsing away...

That leads me to believe, because I can hear the pulsing, that there is a brief moment between pulses where the coil is no longer producing enough heat to vaporize the liquid... So the sizzle goes away...

It's with the low resistance atomizers where I notice a much more apparent difference in flavor as well. From my higher resistance cartomizers, that difference is much more subtle... Although I can still tell a difference...

Just for clarification, I am not attacking the Vamo either... If I thought it sucked, I wouldn't own one! It's a great device, and I love it... I can't tell a lie though, I can definitely tell a differnence between the two...

 

[junkman]

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but have you compared the "sizzle" you get from a Vamo, to the "sizzle" of a device that has a constant DC voltage? It's very apparent to me, especially when I do side by side comparisons between the sound of a Vamo compared to that of the ProVari.

And I don't assume you are attacking the ProVari I don't really consider myself a fanboy of the ProVari, although I may come off as one. My opinions are based on real world experience having extensive side by side use of both devices using the same atomizers on both. And by same, I mean I unscrew it from the Vamo and immediately screw it down on the ProVari and vape it...

What I have found is that with higher resistance cartomizers, the difference is subtle because you are running the Vamo at a higher voltage to get to your sweet spot. At higher voltages, the duty cycle is higher, which would minimize the rattlesnake sound... On my RBA's with low resistance coils around 1.5 ohms, I run them at 3.5 - 4 volts... And I definitely notice the rattlesnake sound with the duty cycle around 60%... It sounds like one of those sprinklers they use to water a golf course... I can hear it pulsing away...

That leads me to believe, because I can hear the pulsing, that there is a brief moment between pulses where the coil is no longer producing enough heat to vaporize the liquid... So the sizzle goes away...

I hear the same whether on my vamo or on my mech mod.

edit: But I am using them with the AGA-t so perhaps it would be there if I were using a device with a different coil/wick combo?

 

[dam718]

I hear the same whether on my vamo or on my mech mod.

edit: But I am using them with the AGA-t so perhaps it would be there if I were using a device with a different coil/wick combo?

It's possible... For me, I notice a huge sound difference using dripping atomizers... With a 2 Ohm 510 bridgeless atomizer, where the coil is dang near in your mouth, I can hear it getting hammered by the Vamo PWM, where on the ProVari it's a nice smooth hiss.

 

[junkman]

It's possible... For me, I notice a huge sound difference using dripping atomizers... With a 2 Ohm 510 bridgeless atomizer, where the coil is dang near in your mouth, I can hear it getting hammered by the Vamo PWM, where on the ProVari it's a nice smooth hiss.

I just pulled the cap on the AGA-t and switched back and forth between my lagacy mech mod and the VAMO. I could clearly see and hear the wick/coil/juice. Absolutely no difference, steady hiss, steady vapor on both devices.

 

[dam718]

I just pulled the cap on the AGA-t and switched back and forth between my lagacy mech mod and the VAMO. I could clearly see and hear the wick/coil/juice. Absolutely no difference, steady hiss, steady vapor on both devices.

Hey, that's pretty awesome then if you ask me I don't have that same experience with my Vamo... Those Chinese aren't exactly known for manufacturing consistency though... Unless you work for Foxconn, and then you get beaten with sticks! My iPhone / iPad are great! LoL!

 

[junkman]

Yeah, I think it is sufficient, at least with the Aga-t.

I would also note that I could go to an audiophile forum and there would be people claiming that they can tell the difference in the music based on what speaker wires they are using.

Could they in a good double blind test? Not likely.

 

[DaveP]

800 hertz would produce a much closer average than 37hz any day. I'm surprised that the Chinese didn't approximate the Provari electronics in their design. You have to know that they reverse engineered the electronics and saw the difference.

Most anyone can see the difference at 60hz between a bulb with a coil and a fluorescent tube, especially if the fluorescent tube is on the way toward end of life. A filament takes time to heat and cool. Gas is much more responsive.

Audio sampling rates in the 48khz range are fine, but much more pleasing the higher you go toward 192khz, but the on off principle applies to out ears, also.

The difference between 800hz and 37hz is enough to sense the difference, but not so that the average vaper would know what is going on. This may explain the reason that people say they vape 2 ohm coils at 4.8v and I only vape 2 ohm coils around 3.5v on my Provari. Go figure.

 

[bsidb]

I just did the switch, Vamo to Pro-vari, much more of a full feeling vapor, not sure about the conversion of watts to volts but i went from 8.5 on the Vamo to 3.6 on the Pro-vari and its a bit high. Iv never really heard the "rattlesnake" on the Vamo, mostly use Vivi Nova's, and mostly use the Vamo for convenience of ohm/battery check but noticed the "bonus" every time I switched back to the Pro-vari

 

[junkman]

800 hertz would produce a much closer average than 37hz any day. I'm surprised that the Chinese didn't approximate the Provari electronics in their design. You have to know that they reverse engineered the electronics and saw the difference.

Most anyone can see the difference at 60hz between a bulb with a coil and a fluorescent tube, especially if the fluorescent tube is on the way toward end of life. A filament takes time to heat and cool. Gas is much more responsive.

Audio sampling rates in the 48khz range are fine, but much more pleasing the higher you go toward 192khz, but the on off principle applies to out ears, also.

The difference between 800hz and 37hz is enough to sense the difference, but not so that the average vaper would know what is going on. This may explain the reason that people say they vape 2 ohm coils at 4.8v and I only vape 2 ohm coils around 3.5v on my Provari. Go figure.

I would say you eyes and ears are much more sensitive than a heated coil of wire.

And you agree the filament, which is much finer than our coils takes time to heat and cool which is exactly my point. 37 cycles per second is sufficient to maintain a constant coil temp,

 

[CountSmackula]

I have both, ProVari & Vamo, and only use gennys... and I have never heard the 'rattlesnake' out of a singe RBA no matter what the ohms of the coil. Which would I rely on? The ProVari of course. There's no comparison in build quality, but that shows in the price ~$150 vs <$40 (options & batts excluded).

At the same time, I don't sneer at the Vamo, it gets daily use... as does my MVP. I also have a Sig Zmax & a CVI on the way (co-ops), I expect them to perform reasonably well too. Will they be better than the 'Vari? Doubtful. Will they do the job reasonably well? Most likely.

I have an EA, and am in a co-op for a "Chi-Chi". I can't wait to see if there's a significant difference in the vape between a ~$130 mechanical & a <$30 one.

About the only mod I hate on is my TOX. POOR voltage regulation across the scale, still... w/ a 1.5-1.7Ω coil it gets the job done - albeit barely.

 

[GrimmTech]

BTW, is that an OLD school Tektronix o-scope you've got pictured in the OP?

That looks like the scope I learned how to use like... 20+ years ago And it was old then!

Used to use that old beast for scoping out photocells and read/write heads in the vaccuum chambers of reel to reel tape drives... And for scoping out flip flops and bangin gates while troubleshooting old I/O converters and memory modules. You know, when one computer took up the entire floor of a building...

You know your stuff I believe its a late 50s model lol. Both my scopes are old Tektronix. I cant see needing a new digital when these simply work. I learned on them too. Keep them callibrated and they are like tanks.

 

[tnt56]

Both my vamo's had the rattlesnake sound. But then I use only carto/tanks with vivi nova's as seconds. This thread has just gotten into a disagreement IMHO. I do hope every one here finds what they need to stop using cigarette's. best luck to all I'm done.

 

[jimmyh]

I would think that having only 37, on the off part the juice would cool the coil down if only minutely. It would have to.

 

[PLANofMAN]

LOL, nice. I'm kind of afraid to post here because it's really hard to translate my sarcasm to print without coming off sounding like a jerk.

I don't like tube mods that much, but I like the Reos even less. I'll find out next week whether my ax date moved up with the most recent management restructuring. Scary times. I think the Provari makes sense for me because I like to have VV and regulated current, and I just don't trust Chinese mods or eGo-Cs for the long haul. It would probably be best to buy 2 mods - one with a chip and one mechanical.

I saw that Provape-1 on the Provape site but I can't find a thing about it on the net. What's up with that? Is it just a 3.7v mod made of steel with a fancy button? If so, that price is fairly competitive, but it looks even more like a sex toy. The Provari looks more like a lightsaber, which isn't all that bad I guess.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/provape/131033-provape-1-electronic-cigarette.html
It's a 3.7v mod with no voltage regulation. Basically an almost indestructible eGo with replaceable batteries, for the price of 5 to 10 eGo's.

EDIT: It does come with all of the standard safety features.

 

[dam718]

I am baffled by how folks can't hear the rattlesnake sound of the Vamo...

It's nothing like an audiophile claiming to hear the difference from one speaker wire to another, or folks claiming the fidelity of a record is better than a CD...

It's just in your face obvious, to me...

 

[jimmyh]

I don't know about the sound, all I can tell you ProVari + any delivery = better flavor to me, my opinion.