ProVari Variable Voltage Mod

[Zen~]

That's a pretty interesting advice from the "Seeker of Wisdom and Truth", don't you think? .

It's pretty on target actually! Some find the answers in the science, others find it in the experience... Both are correct... wisdom and truth are intertwined.

The "sweet spot", in many cases, is much more than the proper application of Ohms Law... The "sweet spot" often times expands itself to become the "sweet range"... occasionally, at least for me and in my experience, the "sweet spot" is very much mood as well as juice dependant... sometimes hotter, often times cooler. There's no place in Ohms Law to apply the variables of mood and/or flavor, so the answer is more experiencial than scientific.

Your sweet spot will be much more about the actual vaping experience than the math that led to that experience. I'm a fan of hard science, I have no choice in life but to obey ALL the laws of physics... I would be unable to funcion in my job capacity without the science behind things... But good scientific behavior is to observe, then explain the factors that created your observation. Ohms law explains a part of the results, but the entire experience goes way beyond the simple calculation of wattage. The emperical factors play a big role in all of this. At the end of the day, you'll find a spot or spots that you like, and ohms law will explain some of it, but not all of it, and none of it truly matters as long as you enjoy your vaping experience... so yes... we're talking about the wisdom to put down the electronics 101 book, and delve into experimentation... ignore the numbers and go for the vape... taste it... feel it... love it or hate it... ultimately narrowing in on it.

Wine lovers don't measure the tannins in their red and the brix in their white... they use their palate and olfactory senses to determine great from fair... mediocre from exceptional. The wine maker that focuses on the numbers oftens comes up short in competition... a great vaping experience, like a fine wine... is about the senses... not the numbers. In the final analysis the numbers can always be used to explain the outcome... in part... but the outcome defines which numbers matter, and only to the degree that they produced this particular result. If you build a wine by the chemical content, it will fail... it will lack soul. If you craft a wine using your senses, then numbers will always be right! It cannot be reverse engineered because the numbers fail to tell the entire story.

It's all just my opinion, of course... but I started to enjoy vaping MUCH more once I decided it's all about the experience. The ProVari helps with that experience, though I rarely look at the numbers any more. I dial it in each time I use it, and I always find a great experience... every time! I could not tell you on a bet what voltage mine is set at, but in this moment, it's doing a great job of producing an extrodinary, relaxing vape. It's amazing.

The best advice I could give anybody that truly wants to enjoy their provari, is to toss out the math books, ignore the numbers and just enjoy the thing. It's an amazing device.

 

[cam6512002]

Where is my Pro Vari? When is this thing gonna show up? I have trouble waiting a couple of days for my supplies.................and this thing takes 3 weeks. I am so fed up with my V-GO and the carts not firing without pulling up the center pin on the battery or cart. Completely aggrivating. I need this unit before I go crazy.

 

[Grammie]

Hang tight, it's worth the wait. I have one and one has been shipped!

 

[rchriste]

The "sweet spot", in many cases, is much more than the proper application of Ohms Law... The "sweet spot" often times expands itself to become the "sweet range"... occasionally, at least for me and in my experience, the "sweet spot" is very much mood as well as juice dependant... sometimes hotter, often times cooler. There's no place in Ohms Law to apply the variables of mood and/or flavor, so the answer is more experiencial than scientific.

I think you might have missed something in what he was saying Zen~ He's not looking for a sweet spot for the vaping experience. He's trying to find a way to optimize the charge on his battery and put the least amount of stress on his hardware. I believe that those questions can neither be answered by mood nor flavor. Maybe you could go back and review his posts. I don't think anyone has a right to dictate to this or any other person what they can and can not want to learn or how they SHOULD want to learn it. I don't think wine is going to help him (though it never hurts) but I believe he is on the right track to finding answers to his questions about battery life and regulator stress. I don't believe he will ever find his answer with anything BUT numbers and math.

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this unless you just like beating up on this guy for wanting to learn something new. The foundation of this forum is to exchange ideas and information and find better ways of doing things. If what you are saying is true for you that you just start the car, hit the gas and go then I'm not sure why you're even reading the forum. You've got your battery, you've got your atty, you've got your liquid... You should be good to go and explore your moods and your flavors. I haven't heard of such an example of a person being ridiculed for the pursuit of knowledge since the dark ages. Please let the guy learn without trying to make him feel bad about it or at least give something to the conversation that will help him find the answers he's looking for.

You started this post by saying: "Some find the answers in the science, others find it in the experience... Both are correct..."

So which is it? Is it correct for him to find his answers in science or not?

 

[Laszlo]

The way I see it (after two weeks of constant Provari use) that Provari is very universal tool - in terms that I don't have to worry about what resistance atty/carto/clearo/tank etc. is at hand. Could not do it with eGo - all that gear had to be LR for me. Now I have 3 volts span to play with it to get my vapor/taste/heat parameters where I like it most. I'm buying standard Boge 3ohm cartos which are cheaper than LR cartos, they do vary from 2.6 to 3.3 ohm, but it only takes a couple of presses on the switch and we are home again.

As with (probably) most Provari users I do operate within a voltage range, mine is 4.0 to 4.8V. I do not have need to go into 5V-6V ranges, yet it is very comforting to know that I have this option if the gear/juice combo would require to do so.

Making living in electronics spared me the heads-cratching how this thing work and what is the science behind it. I just understand it by default - maybe this enables me to do all settings without looking at display. It normally goes like that:
grab some filled carto, check it is nice and moist at the top, screw it on, take a drag, if not quite happy, 5 presses, 2 presses to crank it up, or go down 2 three steps, repeat until satisfied. No need to know what voltage, just going by sensory inputs.

Later I might check where I am, but I can't be bothered anymore, as it it always between 4 to 4.8 anyway.

This ability to get the best out of juice and carto/atty/etc currently at hand is what's making Provari so valuable for me.

 

[rchriste]

Laszlo I like the way you describe where you're at with the ProVari. I love mine for a lot of the same reasons you do. I also liked Zen~ statement vape more worry less. It's also very fitting and accurately describes the ProVari experience for me. I also appreciate Vaporologist's thirst for knowledge. And I feel for him and the others that are waiting the dreaded 3 weeks to get their hands on one of these things.

I'd try to do all settings without looking at the display but I can't count that high. I agree with your analogy though cause I also use a VV Box Mod. Actually the wife has one and I have one. I put a DVM in her's and not in mine. If I'm not quite happy with it... I don't hook it up to a multimeter I just raise it up or lower it till I find the spot I like. I think all that's needed to be known about the button presses is if you're going up or if you're going down. Remove the display and the thing would just run longer on a charge for me. I don't care about the resistance of the atty and on the rare occasions that I do.... I put it on the multimeter. (that's rare) Battery going dead? If it goes dead I put a fresh battery in it. I don't need to have a display or flashing lights to tell me it's dead. I guess I do like the fact that it tells me it's "almost dead" cause then I never get the empty hit of a full dead bat.

Thanks for posting Laszlo. You probably won't understand this but I needed to read something like your post.

Just noticed your locale. Maybe it's not wise to discuss this kind of thing so feel free to abstain if this is inappropriate but.... How do you get your nic? I've been wondering about that with our neighbors up North and neighbors down under.

 

[Zen~]

He mentioned his sweet spot in post 3338... I was responding to that when I mentioned the sweet spot...

Bottom line for me, I offered another way of looking at things... Not beating anybody up... Just sharing my thoughts. No harm intended, no contest required... No winners or losers.

Let's all chill and enjoy a nice vape, shall we?

 

[Vaporologist]

Yes, I think it would be good to know that up front considering the money involved. You might not like my gut feeling about this or my 'uninformed opinion'. I know from reading your posts that you like higher voltages and HR attys. Nothing wrong with that. I also know you've said that you've been trying some SR attys and are interested in that as well. My opinion..... The higher I crank the voltage, the shorter the life of the regulator. That is by no means a fact and I'm pretty sure it's not the answer you are hoping for. That said.... Maybe we can prove me wrong. <grin> The only reason I say it is cause; the work the regulator does is to convert current into a higher voltage. So to me, it follows, that the higher you raise the output above the input, the more work it has to do. Without being able to do the math, that's how my simple mind works it all out.

That really summarizes my initial speculations and that's why I asked the question, hoping that someone who has the facts would chime in. I'm obviously hoping to hear that it makes no difference but , whatever the answer is it's fine, it would just be nice to know. If I'll have to change my batteries every three hours, that's not a problem. But if I can find my sweet spot with different configurations and have the battery last longer, well, even better. It would just be nice to know this. Seems like a simple answer to a simple question and I'm pretty surprised that this hasn't been discussed before.

Depending on what your ultimate goal is. Extending battery life (I don't see that happening much at any configuration) or perfecting the vaping experience, or extending the life of your hardware, you may or may not be successful. <grin> but I'm happy to help you explore the notion and I'm eager to know the results of your personal testing. If for no other reason, just to know. I want mine to last a long time too.

My ultimate goal is to just know and for it to make sense on any level. I know that with the Provari I will be able to use the IKV LR306 (2.0ohm) atty in the upper 4V range and match the wattage that I'm currently getting with the IKV HV306 atty at 6V. It doesn't matter to me which atty I use, the overall performance and TH will be the same or at least very similar. I'm just trying to figure out if either one would be "better" for the Provari and its "stress" levels and battery longevity, and/or does it make any difference at all and why...

So Vaporologist... Have we successfully killed some time while you're waiting for your ProVari? That IS still our goal right?

Haha... I'm not a stranger to waiting. I waited a lot longer to receive my P18 last year. I'm just happy to see how many orders have been fulfilled in the past week since I ordered mine. It will be here in no time. It would be very difficult if I was PVless.

Btw, I REALLY appreciate everything you've helped me with. I think I'll have a glass of wine and call it a night...

 

[rchriste]

My ultimate goal is to just know and for it to make sense on any level. I know that with the Provari I will be able to use the IKV LR306 (2.0ohm) atty in the upper 4V range and match the wattage that I'm currently getting with the IKV HV306 atty at 6V. It doesn't matter to me which atty I use, the overall performance and TH will be the same or at least very similar. I'm just trying to figure out if either one would be "better" for the Provari and its "stress" levels and battery longevity, and/or does it make any difference at all and why...

I've heard of people getting an E2 error from their ProVari with LR attys above 4V. I've never heard of anyone getting an E2 error from HR attys at any voltage. E2 on the Provari I believe is where it doesn't want to provide as much power as you're asking of it. The problem with this observation is that I think HR attys are not as common as LR attys. They are becoming more and more popular because of a myth that they use less amps. The reason that's happening is because of VV mods and the examples you started off with being spread around.

Remember the 6V and 4.9V examples you found? And how even though the wattage was the same on both, the current was lower on one of them? That leads people to believe that they're getting 'more' out of one configuration than the other. The reason for what looks like a contradiction in that situation is the different battery voltages being used in the examples. The bottom line is kind of the wattage. Our problem in answering this question is that ProVape is not likely to ever publish the spec sheets on it's circuit components. That leaves you with only two other options. Test it on your own or find someone that's already done that for you.

I know what your question is and I know there is a definite answer to it. I'd like to know it too. The question being what is the sweet spot for the hardware or with which configuration of Atty Resistance and Voltage does this regulator operate at it's best efficiency. It's a great question because as you say, if it doesn't matter which configuration you use as long as you're getting the same output from a vaping standpoint then the only reason to even consider this question is to be as gentle on the hardware as possible. I believe that is the bottom line of your questions if I'm understanding it all correctly.

I think it's a great question. The answer to that question could stand to benefit everyone who owns a ProVari. I mean, if you use the best combination that makes you happy and makes the provari happy then you might get a few extra months out of the hardware before it fails. Or weeks or days or hours or no difference at all but we won't know until it's answered. Since I can't answer the question, I'm going to bow out of it and hope you find someone that has the practical experience with LR, SR and HR attys on the ProVari that might provide some insight.

If you end up having to do the research yourself I guess you'd be looking to find out how many ml's of liquid you can vaporize on a charge with different resistance attys all using the same wattage.

Actually.... now that I think about it, you don't have to find 1 person using different resistance attys, you could find 3 people one using LR one using SR and one using HR all at the same wattage. That seems possible. Oh, but they'd all three have to be using the same liquid. That's not very possible. It's late, I'm rambling. I'm going to bow out of this and take a mini-vacation.

I was good at the waiting part too. Ex-Navy. Hurry up and wait was a way of life.

Well Vaporologist, it's been real and it's been fun but it hasn't been real fun. <grin> TTYL

 

[Vaporologist]

I know what your question is and I know there is a definite answer to it. I'd like to know it too. The question being what is the sweet spot for the hardware or with which configuration of Atty Resistance and Voltage does this regulator operate at it's best efficiency. It's a great question because as you say, if it doesn't matter which configuration you use as long as you're getting the same output from a vaping standpoint then the only reason to even consider this question is to be as gentle on the hardware as possible. I believe that is the bottom line of your questions if I'm understanding it all correctly.

That's it, the sweet spot for the hardware. Thanks for helping clarify that, your observations are spot on. And I really do believe that everyone who owns a ProVari would benefit from this information. I know I would...

 

[jimho]

That's it, the sweet spot for the hardware. Thanks for helping clarify that, your observations are spot on. And I really do believe that everyone who owns a ProVari would benefit from this information. I know I would...

Simple- I wouldn't call it a sweet spot. Less boost is longer run time. The efficiency is close to 95% around 3.7V, reasonably good (probably in the 80's) around 4.5V and drops another 10-15% as you get to 6V. Most people figure that out intuitively....

Keep in mind as you use the battery, its loaded voltage drops, so it adds to the amount of boost... Also, the more boost you use, the bigger the load on the battery- because of the way the batterys behave (they drop under load and then recover after you remove the load) you get to a point where it might be usable for a while longer (1/2 an hour- hrs) at 4V but not useable at 6V...

I thought of doing some tests where I would measure the current out of the battery vs the boost, and load but haven't had the time to set it up.... It's on my list somewhere after cleaning my office.


I've got 6V on mine right now with a 4.2 atty- will let you know how that compares to some other voltages/run times later today/tomorrow when it's done...

 

[Vaporologist]

Ahhh, there you are, jimho. Thanks for jumping in here...

I clearly understand what you are saying. More boost puts a greater load on the battery and reduces its efficiency. Obviously, lower ohms do as well since they have greater amp draw requirements. So that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out, if it's better to put more load on the battery with more boost and higher ohms or with less boost and lower ohms. I'm really looking forward to seeing what your tests reveal. Thanks a lot!

 

[jimho]

Ahhh, there you are, jimho. Thanks for jumping in here...

I clearly understand what you are saying. More boost puts a greater load on the battery and reduces its efficiency. Obviously, lower ohms do as well since they have greater amp draw requirements. So that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out, if it's better to put more load on the battery with more boost and higher ohms or with less boost and lower ohms. I'm really looking forward to seeing what your tests reveal. Thanks a lot!

IMO- You're not going to find that out with a precise answer - we may get some quantitative data on it, but it's a non-linear relationship. I would say my experience has been lower voltage/higher current is more efficient but that's at my settings around 8.5W-9W- I don't know if it would hold up the same at 10W or 7W.... Unless we knew what the chip was (hint) and we could look up the specs- I'm not about to tear mine apart to find that out... but if a little birdie emailed me the chip info, I'd be discrete about it....

Real world, Its better to find the combo you like best and live with whatever the battery gives you. I just like gathering data so I can understand what works for me....
Missing from your discussion and everyone's is that the electronics are only part of the equation. The thermodynamics involved in different attys from different manufacturers, different coil lengths and different materials are beyond most of us but can't be ignored. Just compare a 2 ohm atty to a 2 ohm carto..... There's more to this than the watts you're using. The real beauty with the ProVari is its so easy to dial in the best voltage setting for whatever atty/carto you are using- so find what YOU like best and don't let the battery life drive your decisions.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cool discussion but kind of accademic....

Now, I have a burning question.... has anyone gotten a good explaination of why attys drop in resistance as they age? Theoretically I think it should go the other way... Resistance increases with heat, and as the coil ages, it cracks resulting in more resistance.... 9 out of 10 times I see the atty resistance drop ...

I started the week with a 3.6 ohm atty and it's dropped down to 1.9 ohms in about 4 days.

 

[MonsterKenny]

UPDATE!

Silver - up to 4907

Chrome - 4691

Black 4972

More going out tomorrow

 

[rchriste]

Now, I have a burning question.... has anyone gotten a good explaination of why attys drop in resistance as they age? Theoretically I think it should go the other way... Resistance increases with heat, and as the coil ages, it cracks resulting in more resistance.... 9 out of 10 times I see the atty resistance drop ...

I started the week with a 3.6 ohm atty and it's dropped down to 1.9 ohms in about 4 days.

Sorry no answer but I thought you might be interested to know this. I had a 2.2 ohm atty at 4.3V that after 2 weeks of pumping out vapor from LorAnn Butter Rum as a flavoring it's resistance suddenly jumped up to 2.9 It stayed there for 4 days of constant use so I was setting the ProVari to 5-5.3V for those 4 days. On day 5 it started dropping again but it didn't stop at 2.2 Ohms. It kept going till it hit 1.2 ohms and my ProVari kept giving me an E2 no matter where I set it. I replaced it and got similar results on atty #2. I replaced THAT one and reduced the Butter Rum flavoring from 30 percent to 20 percent and I haven't had a problem with it for a month now on atty #3.

Carbon maybe? I don't know. You can make a resistor out of carbon so it seems possible.
Seems that if it were carbon it could lower the resistance but not raise it unless the wire were broken and current was flowing only through the carbon. How my resistance went up for 4 days, twice, boggles my mind. I started a thread but got no valid theories out of it. In fact, I got the feeling that some thought I was pulling their leg so I dropped it. <grin>

If a person were to scrape the carbon off of their coil when they do their ritual cleaning, it's possible to short loops together in the coil by the action of scraping which could lower resistance. I don't scrape off my atty coil but I've read about some that do.

I've also found since then that the Butter Rum flavoring in question does have some insoluables in it after testing it with water. One day, I might try passing current through various flavorings to see if there is a difference between flavorings. Maybe after I clean out MY office. <snicker> Now if I were getting my flavorings from China I would just assume they all had lead in them but alas... I don't and I don't. (and I'm only half serious about that) I'm not one of those that lost a pet from Chinese pet food nor have I received any Chinese toys with lead paint but I do read the paper. Hopefully, as much as we can despise the FDA, they are testing the stuff people import and vape.

Those are the only loose theories I have.

Sorry for going off topic but I did do all this with my ProVari <giggle> I'll stop though.

 

[Tasteles]

Now, I have a burning question.... has anyone gotten a good explaination of why attys drop in resistance as they age? Theoretically I think it should go the other way... Resistance increases with heat, and as the coil ages, it cracks resulting in more resistance.... 9 out of 10 times I see the atty resistance drop ...

I started the week with a 3.6 ohm atty and it's dropped down to 1.9 ohms in about 4 days.

I've been using a 2.3 ohm joy atty at 4.6 volts, after a few days it drops to around 2.1 ohms and starts getting E2 error. I just rinse it real good with hot water under the faucet then do a dry burn on it with low volts and it returns the atty to 2.3 ohms. I believe that the atty is getting a slight build up on the coil and the dry burn takes it off. I find that when the atty is going bad, the ohms start to go up.

 

[ukeman]

I may agree; using same atty spec 2.2 to 2.4 ... as i don't test them when they're working good, I see that when they start declining, after a week of constant use (6mil/day)... they go up; 3.+ Ohm.

I've been using a 2.3 ohm joy atty at 4.6 volts, after a few days it drops to around 2.1 ohms and starts getting E2 error. I just rinse it real good with hot water under the faucet then do a dry burn on it with low volts and it returns the atty to 2.3 ohms. I believe that the atty is getting a slight build up on the coil and the dry burn takes it off. I find that when the atty is going bad, the ohms start to go up.

 

[Tasteles]

This atty that I'm using now has been going strong for about 3 weeks now, I've had to do several dry burns on it to stop E2 errors and still returning back to 2.3 ohms after the dry burns. Just got to be careful not to dry burn it for too long, I'll get it red for about 3 seconds and blow on it to cool it down. I do that about three times, then blow it out with caned air to get any loose particles out of it before I start dripping with it again. Getting the coils too hot will make it break down faster.

 

[ukeman]

i wonder if watts/volts setting matters in your case... taste,
2.3 at 4.6v... is on the high side for me... I can get by easily anywhere from 3.6 to 4.2v with a 2.2 reg. joye 510 atty. ( i use 30/70 pg/vg often and don't care about TH )...
maybe that could cause drop in resistance? (high voltage altering atty materials)... just a guess.

 

[Tasteles]

I don't know, I use a 80/20 mix on my juices. I never paid that close attention to the resistance before until I got the provari and got my first E2 error. That was when I noticed the drop in resistance. The only thing I noticed before was that I would start loosing performance of my atty after a while and when checked with my fluke meter, it would show high resistance. I've been using a vari-volt PV for quite a while and used it at 4.6 to 5 volts, but I do like the warmer hit. My nic is low so the TH doesn't really matter much. I vape 15 mil in about 2 days so I am a heavy vaperer! This comes from my old habit of about 4 packs a day of anologs. I have the 2.5 ohm map tank that I run at 4.2 volts but the vari shows it at 2.8 ohms. I haven't noticed the ohms drop on it but I rinse and dry burn it every other tank fill up. I starts tasting bad if I don't do that.

On a side note, I do go thru more atty's running the higher voltage but that's the nature of the beast. I usually buy them in 5 packs. I've had atty's last anywhere from 2 days to a month, seems to last longer on the provari after seeing the E2 error and noticing the resistance drop. I never really did the dry burns before this. And I do use an EGO battery to dry burn just cause I don't want to risk damaging the provari. I mostly do DIY for my juices have very little color to them at all. I do believe the resistance drop is just from a little build up on the coils. The first time I did a dry burn on a CE2 convinced me of that.