ProVari Variable Voltage Mod

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ukeman

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yeah, fwiw, it seems to me that "reg" attys work better because we have more range to play with (Provape graph), and it seems they don't get as hot.
HV or not, I haven't found one that doesn't feel the heat of more volt/watts.
(not ruling out a better HV atty.. I've only tried a couple; 3.5, 4.0...)
The 3.5 Ohm 901 at 5v is too hot for me.
a cool vape is preferable to me... i don't mean whimpy I like lots of vapor, and the taste is optimal imo, with the minimal watts necessary....
 

progg

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IMO- You're not going to find that out with a precise answer - we may get some quantitative data on it, but it's a non-linear relationship. I would say my experience has been lower voltage/higher current is more efficient but that's at my settings around 8.5W-9W- I don't know if it would hold up the same at 10W or 7W.... Unless we knew what the chip was (hint) and we could look up the specs- I'm not about to tear mine apart to find that out... but if a little birdie emailed me the chip info, I'd be discrete about it....

Real world, Its better to find the combo you like best and live with whatever the battery gives you. I just like gathering data so I can understand what works for me....
Missing from your discussion and everyone's is that the electronics are only part of the equation. The thermodynamics involved in different attys from different manufacturers, different coil lengths and different materials are beyond most of us but can't be ignored. Just compare a 2 ohm atty to a 2 ohm carto..... There's more to this than the watts you're using. The real beauty with the ProVari is its so easy to dial in the best voltage setting for whatever atty/carto you are using- so find what YOU like best and don't let the battery life drive your decisions.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cool discussion but kind of accademic....

Now, I have a burning question.... has anyone gotten a good explaination of why attys drop in resistance as they age? Theoretically I think it should go the other way... Resistance increases with heat, and as the coil ages, it cracks resulting in more resistance.... 9 out of 10 times I see the atty resistance drop ...

I started the week with a 3.6 ohm atty and it's dropped down to 1.9 ohms in about 4 days.

This thread touches tangentially on atty drop and other interests : http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo.../146916-do-lr-attys-kill-ego-batteries-2.html
 

cam6512002

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Gotta catch up the chrome ones. I had no idea there was a count for each color. If I would not of changed colors I would be good. Oh well. UPDATES are all I have. I check several times a day.......I know.....what a dork.

UPDATE!

Silver - up to 4907

Chrome - 4691

Black 4972

More going out tomorrow :)
 

PKZap27

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Update from another thread.


Screen shot of ProVape's latest facebook post :)

Screenshot2011-04-02at84248PM.png
 

ukeman

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Hey! I just clicked an "instant email notification" link and unlike normally taking me to the post indicated, the latest, it took me to the first page... weirddddd.

what's up with the site these days? I've had trouble getting on over the past week, minor, but today it really bombed, as you all probably know, and i did see one post that said things are getting handled... but I wonder if ... well, Provari is the "BEST" PV.. I have huge faith in Provape with my experience (got in on the first run, and now have 2 of em)...

I've always considered ECF the "BEST" forum,,, of any genre, and still do...Provape/ECF; similar quality.
 

ukeman

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progg

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yup... looks like we got us an upgrade... ! :)


OK now... why are ALLL the email notices taking us to the first page of the threads?
if you don't know what i mean, which i doubt, i have setting; notify of new posts- on every thread that I post in.
somethings different not so :)

In that thread Angus and Rolygate say the software upgrade will be over a three week period. In the mean time there will be issues.

The forum is doubling in size yearly. It's growing pains.
 

ukeman

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I'm only grateful... great forum both technically and personally...
Glad to see the increase... i just found out the industry is only since 2003... kudos to the Provape team, who do their work here, not in China, without huge corporate mega-funds, and take the dare to bring their and our, dreams to life.
 

progg

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I'm only grateful... great forum both technically and personally...
Glad to see the increase... i just found out the industry is only since 2003... kudos to the Provape team, who do their work here, not in China, without huge corporate mega-funds, and take the dare to bring their and our, dreams to life.

I'm with you on both counts.

You must get a ton of e-mail notifications.

By the way -- to differentiate between your two ProVaris , color in the "teardrops" at the top cap with a sharpie.
 

ukeman

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yeah... some are x'ed off.. heheh, but yeah, I'm popular! each one says "Dear Ukeman"... )

thanks for the tip ! and the "tear drop" symbol ID
I'm with you on both counts.

You must get a ton of e-mail notifications.

By the way -- to differentiate between your two ProVaris , color in the "teardrops" at the top cap with a sharpie.
 

cam6512002

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Thanks, hod did you get that info. The chrome numbers are at the same point they were before. I dont know if they just dont have any or what. Hard to believe these are still being built on a one by one basis as ordered. I just sent an e-mail to pro vape asking them to send me any color. I am 4936 and would of had my original black but switched to chrome. I would take puke yellow at this point. I just want the damn thing. This is crazy.


Update from another thread.
 

PKZap27

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Vape360

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The efficiency is close to 95% around 3.7V, reasonably good (probably in the 80's) around 4.5V and drops another 10-15% as you get to 6V.

With regards to the best way or settings to run the ProVari at;

The ProVari was designed from the ground up to be as reliable as possible considering the environment in which it is used. Wherever possible, design margins were selected that would allow it to perform with the best efficiency over the entire wattage use range. The posted Efficiency Chart shows actual lab data as measured during the product development cycle. The ProVari, by design, has to be as efficient as possible to keep its internal heat down as this insures long term reliability and allows the maximum battery run time.

Some have asked, "Why are High Drain Batteries recommended?" The answer to this is: High Drain Batteries have an internal resistance of 20 milliohms. All other batteries have an internal resistance of over 160 milliohms. This factor of 8 (or more) means the battery terminal voltage will be lower and internal battery heat will be 8 times higher during its use. That all translates to less runtime and less battery life. All DC/DC Converters work on a power in/power out principle.

For example, if you are running at 12 watts output, the current that is being taken from the battery when the battery terminal voltage is 3.7 volts is: ((12 watts) / (3.7 volts)) / .95 (converter efficiency) = 3.414 amps. During the condition when the power output is 6 volts and 2.5 amps (the maximum rated ProVari power output condition) the battery current can be ((15 watts) / (3.7 volts)) / .92 (converter efficiency) = 4.4 amps. Now let’s look what happens when the battery terminal voltage drops to 3.3 volts. ((15 watts) / ( 3.3 volts)) / .92 (converter efficiency) = 4.94 amps. OR when the battery terminal voltage drops to 3.0 volts. (15 watts / 3.0 volts) / .92 (converter efficiency) = 5.43 amps. It is important to note that this is just the average current drain, the peak currents from the battery can be double this number. Remember the converter works on a pulse principle.

So, what happens to the battery terminal voltage when these high currents are being drawn? With an internal resistance of 20 milliohms, the battery terminal voltage drop when 5 amps is being drawn is: (5 amps)x(.02 ohms) = .1 volts. But if the battery internal resistance is 160 milliohms then it becomes: (5 amps)x(.160 ohms) = .8 volts or 8 times worse. The ProVari internal components have to be selected to handle over 12 amps of pulsed currents to deal with these boundary conditions in order to meet the rated output of 6 volts and 2.5 amps (15 watts). Even if you don't choose to use it there, that is what it is rated for.

The other engineering factor to keep in mind is this: the battery internal resistance goes up with battery “end of charge” and battery “end of life”. So these calculations are for the best case condition of a new battery or a battery that is in it prime of its life. As the battery gets older the internal resistance goes up. There is not a lot of data on what it will actually degrade to and this degradation will vary a large amount from battery to battery. If you want to use the ProVari in a way that will make everything last longer, then the one thing we recommend is to recharge the battery when the low battery light starts to flash. It is when the battery terminal voltage drops low that these large currents get drawn. That is when the maximum stress is placed on everything.

So, for those that say: “It’s no big deal, we are only using 2 amps output”, remember it is not the output current that matters with regards to the battery current; it is the power taken from the battery with reference to the battery terminal voltage. That is an entirely different number, especially when taking the battery internal resistance into account. :)

As far as the ProVari electronics is concerned, it is as efficient as we could make it and still keep the size and cost reasonable. The lab data taken on an actual unit posted below:
Provari_Efficiency_Chart.jpg
 
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