pulled over for vaping

[mcl5000]

I stopped reading after the 2nd page, but I can't believe that people think it's harassment if you get pulled over while vaping. I assume that 90% of the people I pass while driving and vaping think I'm probably smoking a bowl, and I would feel the police fall into the same category as normal drivers.

If someone is blowing smoke (which is what vapor looks like to non-vapers), but doesn't have a cigarette in their hand, it certainly looks like they're smoking pot (or whatever else). I believe police officers have EVERY right to question you on this.

That is obvious harrasment, because if it were illegal to vape he would have ticketed or arrested you. He obviously KNEW what you were doing was legal and he was just suffering from BCS(Bully Cop Syndrome).

Please...give me a break. The cop knew it was legal AFTER pulling him over. As he was pulling him over, he thought it may have been something illegal, that looks strikingly similar from a distance.

I'm pretty sure most people dont drive around smoking "illegal" things so I dont get his probable cause here.

What? Really? First of all, plenty of people drive around smoking illegal things. Second, vaping is still really only known to a small group of people, and their friends. The majority of people you encounter in your daily life have no idea what it is. Like I said before, if you're breathing out what looks like smoke and don't have a cigarette in your hand, it's pretty suspicious to most.

Expecting every cop to know what an electronic cigarette is is ridiculous. It's just another legal thing that law enforcement doesn't need to regulate, so training them would be a waste of money. Do you know how many "clique" things there are that are legal that cops have no idea about? Plenty. Just because you take part in this "clique" doesn't mean cops need to be educated on it.



I expect to be pulled over at some point for vaping. Until they give me a ticket/put me in handcuffs, I think they're well within their rights.

 

[Dakota]

Next time, tell the nice police officer he can search your car when he gets a warrant and that you do NOT consent to an illegal search of your vehicle (4th amendment). Since there isn't any smell (ie drug smell) and you showed him the e-cig, he'd have no further probable cause to search (In my opinion, as I'm not a lawyer). Then, if he searches w/o your permission, file a complaint.

 

[Dakota]

Expecting every cop to know what an electronic cigarette is is ridiculous. It's just another legal thing that law enforcement doesn't need to regulate, so training them would be a waste of money. Do you know how many "clique" things there are that are legal that cops have no idea about? Plenty. Just because you take part in this "clique" doesn't mean cops need to be educated on it.

So what am I paying taxes for? having an officer pull me over for whatever he feels is necessary wastes not only MY time, but money, because of the time spent. They SHOULD be taught these things to avoid illegal searches and seizures.

I expect to be pulled over at some point for vaping. Until they give me a ticket/put me in handcuffs, I think they're well within their rights.

Cops don't have rights like we do. They are the ones limited to rights by our constitution. I'm not saying that the police officer didn't have the AUTHORITY (not right) to initially make the stop, but he should not have proceeded further.

 

[LowThudd]

Please...give me a break. The cop knew it was legal AFTER pulling him over. As he was pulling him over, he thought it may have been something illegal, that looks strikingly similar from a distance.

I was reffering to the "required" search of the vehicle after the stop, you didn't read my post well.

 

[jiveman]

hmm. tough call here.

I think officers have every right to pull you over after seeing such a device. Especially if someone is smoking a chuck or other mod that looks like a strange smoking device. lol

I could see them looking at a chuck and still not being sure it's not being used for illicit drugs.

I'd have to side with the police here, because it's just too hard to distinguish.

 

[Bahnzo]

Next time, tell the nice police officer he can search your car when he gets a warrant and that you do NOT consent to an illegal search of your vehicle (4th amendment). Since there isn't any smell (ie drug smell) and you showed him the e-cig, he'd have no further probable cause to search (In my opinion, as I'm not a lawyer). Then, if he searches w/o your permission, file a complaint.

This. Never allow a search w/o a warrant, period. Even if you really do have nothing to hide. Waiving your rights under the constitution is a BAD idea. The OP should consider themselves lucky the officer didn't decide to tear off the dashboard, rip up carpets, etc...because they can when you allow them to search.

 

[radicaljd]

Next time, tell the nice police officer he can search your car when he gets a warrant and that you do NOT consent to an illegal search of your vehicle (4th amendment). Since there isn't any smell (ie drug smell) and you showed him the e-cig, he'd have no further probable cause to search (In my opinion, as I'm not a lawyer). Then, if he searches w/o your permission, file a complaint.

I am a lawyer, and you are pretty close. In my opinion, if an officer sees someone vaping one of the more unusual looking devices (e.g. eGo, Chuck, etc.), that may constitute "reasonable suspicion" under the Terry v. Ohio standard to pull you over and briefly investigate. However, "reasonable suspicion" is a lesser standard than "probable cause" (PC).

In order for an officer to search your car without consent, he or she needs PC to believe that criminal activity is afoot, or that he or she will find contraband. If PC exists, warrants are generally not needed if you are in a motor vehicle.

I agree that we should not consent to such searches. Upon being pulled over, I would politely state that I am using a legal personal vaporizer for nicotine consumption, and then ask, "Am I free to go?" or "Am I being detained?" If the officer says he or shhe wants to search the car, state "I do not consent to any search" in a polite but firm manner... then ask again, "Am I free to go?"

If the officer wants to ask you irrelevant questions, like your work, where you are going, etc., just politely say "I decline to answer any more questions, and I want to go now...AM I FREE TO GO?"

The reason you should continuously ask if you are free to go is because "reaonable suspicion" only justifies a BRIEF detention, like for a few minutes. Once you make clear that you will not consent to a search nor engage in a meaningless conversation, the officer has nowhere to go, especially if you make clear that you want to go.

By the way, I think it's a good idea to keep any user's manual from your PV in your glove compartment, so the offiicer can se that you are not using something designed for illegal activities.

RadicalJD

 

[Bahnzo]

Thanks RadicalJD, that is some great advice. It amazes me to no end how willing we are to give up our rights....and also how "skilled" police officers are at convincing us to do so.

 

[eHuman]

Sorry for your inconvenience. But you have an opportunity now to do something constructive and benneficial to our cause in the wake of your misfortune.

Don't view this as an opportunity educate the police so that we won't get harrassed. This stuff looks funny if you don't know what it is and it's still worth looking into (from a cops perspective) even if he knows about vaping because it's his job to make sure when ever there is a doubt. (Face it, some of our equipment looks a liitle questionable.)

Treat your presentation as an opportunity to "sell it to your audience". Don't spend any time or energy over the misconception of why the device might look like illegal contraband, (A cop who's vaped for a year could look himself in the mirror and see that he looks guilty of something fishy while vaping). Instead praise it's bennefits with a real enthusiasm like you are just explaining it to a good friend that smokes and you are concerned.

Sincerity and confidence in your product will gather more interest than any other way, and the product (once it's merits are understood) sells itself to anyone who has battled with smoking. I would even bring a baggie full of condoms with holes in the end as disposable mouth pieces just in case there are one or more who would like to try it after the demo. (Plan for success).

To that end, I would do my best to present vaping in a light that focus's on all of it's possitives and leave out anything that could be questionable before a person has tried it. Discuss it's merits as an alternative to smoking, the basic anatomy of a 2 and 3 part system. Some of the more standard options like bigger batteries and PCCs for prolonged periods away from a power source. The alternate flavors that taste good and further the enjoyment of the experience, and the fact that you don't need gum when you are done.

I wouldn't go into the dripping and dipping and DIY mod's and chemistry aspects of it during your "dog-n-pony" show. (Obviously not the potencial to go flat broke because "you'll just have to get one of everything). Don't start out with, "Hi I'm Jim and I'm e-liquid-ohlic, I can't pass up a sale, and i'm in debt". These are things that if they immerse themselves into the vaping culture they will find out about anyway . They are details that if found out before the hook is set then they will view the whole thing with distaste.

Take advantage of the situation, if just one of them see's the merits and tries it, he will become a walking advertisement well after you are gone from their station. And in the meantime even if not one is swayed, they have just been educated and now understand that there are some law abiding citizens running around with some equipment that could be mistaken for illegal stuff if they are not careful.

Well there's my 52¢ worth.

 

[HeatherC]

One of our very close friends is a county sherrif here in our town. He has already gotten 4 or 5 of his coworkers (police officers) to purchase them...

Education is our best defense IMO Tell your doctors....tell your local police...tell everyone!!
Or thats what I think at least. One of my doctors is already recommending this to several patients that need to quit cigs. Again, IMO, thats the way we're going to fight the bans that keep coming up. (But as opinions go....thats mine LOL)

 

[salemgold]

I just had a cop giving me dirty looks and I really thought that he was going to pull me over yesterday. I wondered if this had happened to anyone else. I could not believe it when I came here and read this!

It really sucks and will be great when more people are educated about PVs!

 

[radicaljd]

I just had a cop giving me dirty looks and I really thought that he was going to pull me over yesterday. I wondered if this had happened to anyone else. I could not believe it when I came here and read this!

It really sucks and will be great when more people are educated about PVs!

Hmmm... Maybe you resemble someone from a Wanted poster, and it has nothing to do with your PV.

RadicalJD (just kidding)

 

[yoyoma_mda]

unless you've have a previous record they can't search your car without your consent unless they have probable cause (it smells like bud or alcohol or you look effed up), next time tell him "you can examine my e cig but thats it". We have to preserve our rights!

"They must find it difficult...
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
rather than truth as the authority."

 

[THE]

unless you've have a previous record they can't search your car without your consent unless they have probable cause (it smells like bud or alcohol or you look effed up), next time tell him "you can examine my e cig but thats it". We have to preserve our rights!

"They must find it difficult...
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
rather than truth as the authority."

I'd really hit the roof, the ceiling and the sky if I had a record and they tried to use it as cause .. Unless it was a violent history, I suppose, then it's a fine line.

 

[zredsox]

I'll be totally honest, I stealth vape in my car (not the blowing out part, just holding the unit.)

Why? Well, it looks like a "bowl" type rig.

I just don't need the "issues" and it isn't that big of a deal to cup the device and go about my business...

If I ever got pulled over, I'd have a few words for the officer being there is actual crime to deal with...but at the same time I am the type of person that wants to stay on the DL. I don't need to invite trouble and hauling off an eGo while driving past the police station will probably get me pulled over.

In the end I'll come out clean, but do I really need that hassle?

 

[radicaljd]

I'll be totally honest, I stealth vape in my car (not the blowing out part, just holding the unit.)

Why? Well, it looks like a "bowl" type rig.

I just don't need the hassle and it isn't that big of a deal to cup the device and go about my business...

Since I've been reading this thread, I've been trying to be as obvious as possible when vaping, especially at lights. I'd kinda like to be pulled over, just for the entertainment value of dealing with the cop.

RadicalJD

 

[THE]

I stopped reading after the 2nd page, but I can't believe that people think it's harassment if you get pulled over while vaping. I assume that 90% of the people I pass while driving and vaping think I'm probably smoking a bowl, and I would feel the police fall into the same category as normal drivers.

If someone is blowing smoke (which is what vapor looks like to non-vapers), but doesn't have a cigarette in their hand, it certainly looks like they're smoking pot (or whatever else). I believe police officers have EVERY right to question you on this.




Please...give me a break. The cop knew it was legal AFTER pulling him over. As he was pulling him over, he thought it may have been something illegal, that looks strikingly similar from a distance.



What? Really? First of all, plenty of people drive around smoking illegal things. Second, vaping is still really only known to a small group of people, and their friends. The majority of people you encounter in your daily life have no idea what it is. Like I said before, if you're breathing out what looks like smoke and don't have a cigarette in your hand, it's pretty suspicious to most.

Expecting every cop to know what an electronic cigarette is is ridiculous. It's just another legal thing that law enforcement doesn't need to regulate, so training them would be a waste of money. Do you know how many "clique" things there are that are legal that cops have no idea about? Plenty. Just because you take part in this "clique" doesn't mean cops need to be educated on it.



I expect to be pulled over at some point for vaping. Until they give me a ticket/put me in handcuffs, I think they're well within their rights.

How do you explain him still pressing for the search AFTER he knew what the device was? The stop itself I don't think was in question.. not in my mind, any way.

This is not at ALL about the "rights" of the officers. When they pull us over, we don't ask what they have in the vehicle or try to search them or have the power to cite them for anything.

Think of it as them being inside of the law and applying it properly. Not them having a "right" to do something to us. They have a DUTY to APPLY THE LAW. This is what it's all about. The officers staying true to their oath.

It should enever be "Did the officer have a right to do this to me?" It should be "Did the officer correctly apply and enforce the law?"

They don't legally have to do anything about anything. They can watch a robbery and just stand there if they want to. But once they decide to involve themselves, they've got to properly apply the law.

It's not easy, either, half of the time they knock themselves out trying to help people and end up being sued by some but that's the nature of the work.

The rights of an officer are not often violated during a stop, outside of not being treated very nicely by some people, and possibly being shot by some stupid . I believe that they have a right to not be treated like or harmed. But their rights are not in question here. Proper procedure is.

 

[zredsox]

Since I've been reading this thread, I've been trying to be as obvious as possible when vaping, especially at lights. I'd kinda like to be pulled over, just for the entertainment value of dealing with the cop.

RadicalJD

See, some days I might take that route, but generally I just want to get the things I need and head out to my rural house and be left alone. I'm from Maine and live here for a reason. Peace and quiet.

 

[zredsox]

Since I've been reading this thread, I've been trying to be as obvious as possible when vaping, especially at lights. I'd kinda like to be pulled over, just for the entertainment value of dealing with the cop.

RadicalJD

As a side note: That is awesome, lol.

 

[THE]

hmm. tough call here.

I think officers have every right to pull you over after seeing such a device. Especially if someone is smoking a chuck or other mod that looks like a strange smoking device. lol

I could see them looking at a chuck and still not being sure it's not being used for illicit drugs.

I'd have to side with the police here, because it's just too hard to distinguish.

We're mixing up the two things.. "Being in the right" and "Having a right"
I agree that the officer could have been right to pull someone over who looks like they're just smoking away on some illegal subtance.

I object to him pushing for a search after he knew that the device was innocent.