pulled over for vaping
- Thread starter Emyllis
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Actually, refusing a search will probably get you on the road quicker, assuming the officer has no probable cause. Without probable cause, the officer generally can only detain you for a short time (maybe a few minutes); otherwise, it constitutes an unlawful seizure. Of course, the officer won't tell you that.
The best thing to do is refuse consent, then ask repeatedly, "Am I free to go?" If you consent to a search, it can take awhile.
RadicalJD
(Attorney)
In my experience it takes less time for a cop to complete a search, and they're less likely to write you a ticket for that "busted tail light" or whatever vehicle code violation they used to pull you over in the first place. Also they will come up with some "reasonable suspicion" on their own eventually. Only once did an officer actually follow through with his threat to call a drug dog unit, I guess he was really bored that night.
A reasonable, law abiding, non power tripping, non d-bag of an officer (and I've met plenty) won't have pulled you over in the first place without good reason.
If you're wondering I had multiple piercings and blue hair when I was 19-20, and I did lodge more than one harassment complaint during those years.
"reasonable suspicion" only justifies a short, temporary detention, not a full-blown search. If there is no probable cause (PC), the officer generally cannot detain you long enough to get the dogs, unless they are around the corner. Even with the dogs, absent consent or PC, they can only sniff around the car, they can't go inside.
Several times, I have had evidence suppressed because the officer detained my client on "reasonable suspicion" for more than a reasonable amount of time.
In one case, the officer detained my client for only 15 minutes based on reasonable suspicion, the dog got there and alerted, the officer searched based on the dog's alert and found contraband. The judge ruled that 15 minutes was too long, supressed the evidence, and dismissed the case.
Hmmm.. Well, I guess we are getting off topic here. Oh, and when I was 19-20, my hair was down on my shoulders, so I was harassed quite a bit also.
RadicalJD
Why on earth was he allowed to search your car?!
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I get along fine with 90% of police (which is hard to believe, but I really do) but if I ran into some doorknob who wanted to search my vehicle without probable cause, I'd be pretty upset. Sounds like this guy was aand leaned on you.
NEVER, EVER argue in the street with an officer.. But you also, NEVER, EVER consent to anything or give up any of your rights ESPECIALLY when they lean on you.
If they're LEANING ON YOU they're trying to MAKE YOU GIVE SOMETHING UP
They don't lean for any other reason
If he's got or believes he's got probable cause, he's going to do it anyway.
When he leaned for consent, you must have given it??
Be careful out there.. that one to ten percent who like to go around leaning on people will really do a number on you. Especially if you're trying to comply and do the right thing.
He searched her car because he saw her smoking something that looks like drug paraphenalia.I have been vaping for about a month and lurking on this board.Some of you are making something out of nothing.I have a tornado and I think it looks a little odd! The one post about telling the cop to go look for murderers or something to that effect...You serious? You don't think someone smoking .... or crack or anything like that could cause serious bodily injury to someone if they were to get into an accident? Not that the OP was doing that, the officer was just doing his job.When he said not to do it again I took it as it would be mistaken by someone else for the same thing, hence the same hassle of being pulled over.I vape and drive no big deal, if I was to get stopped, no biggie, I'm not doing anything wrong.
Unfortunately in some parts of the country, having large amounts of money without representation can amount to conspiracy to distribute drugs. And they can seize your cash. So, if they do actually search your person(I believe they can do that"for their own protection" legally) and find said cash they can use that as probable cause. Obviously, it could go badly to refuse a search depending where you are and what kind of cash you have on hand. What is it coming to when it is illegal to carry cash on you?
Based on "reasonable suspicion," the officer can only do a quick pat down for weapons as a safety measure; the officer cannot do a full-blown search without either consent or probable cause (a higher standard of suspicion).
The officer is trained to be intimidating, and will say, "would you mind emptying your pockets?" or "What's in your pockets?", and most people would be afraid to say nothing or refuse to empty them. In most cases, if a cop asks to search, he or she lacks probable cause, and a refusal will shut 'em down quickly. If they have PC, they don't need to ask.
RadicalJD
I understand that you think people are making too big a deal of it. But you have to understand how important it is for people to know what little rights they've still got. If we don't make it clear that this is NOT okay for the police to do to people, someone could come here and read this ... then go away thinking "Oh my god I'm scared to vape now" ..
If you believe the PV was cause.. why was the officer intent on searching when the person showed him that it was absolutely not drug related? Where was his cause, then?
I for one never said he should be out doing something more important. If he truly thought the person was driving under the influence, that was of great concern. We're interested in why he persisted once he knew for a fact that he had been mistaken. We're interested in making sure that vapers are not harassed and know how to defend themselves when they are.
It's my utmost concern to see to it that people in the states keep and use whatever rights we're "lucky" enough to still have. Especially if they're being harassed for using a LIFE SAVING device. We're going to catch enough trouble from the government which doesn't want to lose tax revenue. We don't need trouble from another arm of government.
Police officers tend to be more reasonable that the crooked lawmakers wearing white ties. Let's keep it that way.
Text book law is nice, but lawyers are expensive. lol. I was once searched twice on suspicion of posession. He found nothing on the first pat down, his partner handed me the ticket for the illegal U turn(now THAT I did do), I put it in my pocket then he patted me down again! He asked me what that was in my pocket and I told him "It's the ticket your partner just handed me". He required that I pull out the ticket, even though I was in front of his partner the whole time. When he found that I was only in posession of the ticket, he asked me why I was sweating. So I told him it was hot, and I was a little nervous. never been searched before. He suggested that I get a haircut "like his son did" to keep cooler. Not all cops do things by the book, and going to court after the fact is a huge hassle for most people.
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I and past associates of mine have been victim of this. We've seen this first hand. When we use to drive to OKC for a show, each man had to take a maximum of nine with him. If one man had more than "9999", we would be detained and troubled like you would not believe.
We showed them all of the paper work, explained and proved what they money was for, and they still made all kinds of threats. It was an outrage, to me, a man having to explain why he's got MONEY with him. An outrage.
One time they arrested a good friend of mine who had.. I cannot remember how much.. something like 25 on him. It was an overt act. Having money on him. Right here in the states.
YOU know what you're talking about. I've enjoyed reading your posts.
Another thing they'll do is use "for me". . The average person doesn't like to deny a request so they'll say in the right tone "would you go ahead and empty your pockets for me" or they like to MIX QUESTIONS and I don't think many people realize this.. as an example "mind stepping back here while I search?"
I say if you get stopped refer them to radicaljd being our attorney
Pro Bono? lol
Agreed.
I for one will cooperate and I'll go to lengths to do so. But step on my rights, try to railroad me and I'll fight with everything I've got. We all use to be this way in the states. We still should be.
Not saying it's always easy. It can be an outright nightmare. But, believe it or not, it's usually LESS of a nightmare if your KEEP your rights.
When I'm pulled over I let them know that I know what time it is. I do so with a perfect manner. I'm assertive, friendly and understanding all at the same time. Once they know that I know the score, and I'm doing my best to cooperate, they're almost always "cool".
It's just good to know that some people still care.. and you can spell lose without using an extra o.. so you're ahead of most people right there.
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