He said many similar quotes, including the above
http://www.whatourforefathersthought.com/Quotes.html- Status
He said many similar quotes, including the above
http://www.whatourforefathersthought.com/Quotes.html
I never said it was gospel, just that I really like that quote. Others must have liked it too or it wouldn't have been remembered. Just like the famous quote, "All we have to fear is fear itself." Let's face it, there are alot of things to fear besides fear itself. I think it's the concept that is trying to be emphasized
believe me we are making all the fuss and noise possible.
the problem is the media refuses to cover it.
if we were three peta people protesting naked in dubuque iowa we would not
only get total national coverage,but probably make the international news.
here are some reasons why these laws keep getting passed and will contunue to do so.
1.goverment has to find a way to tax the snot out of these even more so than regular tobacco because of the lost tax revenue and:
2.hospitals wont stand for all the money they will lose when the adverse health effects from smoking subside and:
3.big pharma(see number two) and:
4.the insurence companies.there waiting for the 50%surcharge to be implimented with the rest of obama care.(if obama care
gets side tracked they will do it anyway and blame it on on obama care not passing.)
and yes for insurence purposes ecigs are considered tobacco.and:
5.the busy bodie do gooders that make it there bussiness to make sure no one
can make a choice for themselves no matter how safe it is.
they consider ecigs just a dodge we are using to get around the no smoking bans they so
gleefully shoved down our throats and:
6.the money,they cant fool us this time.its not about the children,our health or exploding batteries.
its the money.
i fully expect within 5 years here in minnesota ecigs will be out right banned or taxed higher than tobacco
for all of the above reasons.
regards
mike
the problem is the media refuses to cover it.
if we were three peta people protesting naked in dubuque iowa we would not
only get total national coverage,but probably make the international news.
here are some reasons why these laws keep getting passed and will contunue to do so.
1.goverment has to find a way to tax the snot out of these even more so than regular tobacco because of the lost tax revenue and:
2.hospitals wont stand for all the money they will lose when the adverse health effects from smoking subside and:
3.big pharma(see number two) and:
4.the insurence companies.there waiting for the 50%surcharge to be implimented with the rest of obama care.(if obama care
gets side tracked they will do it anyway and blame it on on obama care not passing.)
and yes for insurence purposes ecigs are considered tobacco.and:
5.the busy bodie do gooders that make it there bussiness to make sure no one
can make a choice for themselves no matter how safe it is.
they consider ecigs just a dodge we are using to get around the no smoking bans they so
gleefully shoved down our throats and:
6.the money,they cant fool us this time.its not about the children,our health or exploding batteries.
its the money.
i fully expect within 5 years here in minnesota ecigs will be out right banned or taxed higher than tobacco
for all of the above reasons.
regards
mike
^^^^I totally agree with what he said^^^^^ it's just a matter of time. It's totally ridiculous though that you can't smoke in your own house or yard. I could understand if maybe you lived in an apartment with indoor corridors and the smell would affect others. Or if your place shared the same ventilation as someone else's. Or even if you were in a townhouse (like I am) and smoking on your front porch wafted easily into your neighbor's window. But then again, it's just a common courtesy to keep these factors in mind and our vaping doesn't stink! Do we really need someone passing legislation to ban it? What about the neighbor that blasts his vulgar rap music outside while washing his car and your little kids have to hear it, etc.? Are we going to ban rap music too? Or the neighbor that washes her car in a g-string and she's 55 yrs old? lol. And yes, that's happened to me before with neighbors! lol. eek! Just saying, enough with all these stupid bans.
You don't have to put up with it. one can always walk if they feel the job is too dangerous. One may look at is as they are entitled to the job. If fact no one is.. Take a bucket of water.. stick your thumb in it.. That is you at the place of business... now take your thumb out.. what's left in the bucket?
Of course if you are a sole prop or a PSC it won't apply.
so no one on the job deserves to be protected from the most dangerous elements of said job?
ridiculous.
we should go back to the days when the poorest amongst us did the most dangerous jobs and got killed accordingly,,,,,,,,,,seriously?
Holy toledo.
Every one of us on this forum, active members and non-active members should get some of these cards: CASAA E-cigarette Information Cards
We should visit our elected official's and news media FACE to FACE with these cards. There are plenty other things at CASAA that we can print to go along with the cards.
Get these cards and spread them around everywhere & to everyone you can find. This is something every one of us can do every day, any time and any where. Do something useful fellow vapor's!
We should visit our elected official's and news media FACE to FACE with these cards. There are plenty other things at CASAA that we can print to go along with the cards.
Get these cards and spread them around everywhere & to everyone you can find. This is something every one of us can do every day, any time and any where. Do something useful fellow vapor's!
Really .. ?? Heart surgeon takes "thumb out of bucket" .. ?
A well run business relies on it's employees .. and knows that without them, things will go downhill fast .. they are the most valuable piece of the equation ..
I don't know who you've worked for, but as a business owner for 35 years, it's a good thing most employers don't share your philosophy ..
Thanks to all who understood my position about businesses being free to choose what's allowed to take place in their establishment, provided it's a legal activity. That's what I was trying to illustrate in that last post. It's not about smoking being bad for you, or vaping potentially being bad for you, it's about freedom of choice.
Smoking cigarettes is not illegal - I'm not saying I want to go to a place that allows it, but I think they should have the right to do so, not be forced by the government to prohibit it. Same thing with vaping - it should be up to the business owner, not the Duluth city counsel. That was the point I was trying to make.
That's why we're talking about it Mike. We need to get the word out. We need to dispell the misinformation. We need people to understand that vaping, as far as can be proven, is no more dangerous than other tobacco free nicotine delivery systems. Lumping vaping in with tobacco use is a blatent scare tactic being used to train the sheep to support overregulation and sin taxes.
It's tempting to suggest that nicotine gum, patches, and inhailers be taxed at the same rate as vaporizing products if they take it that far. Not to punish other people who choose those delivery methods specifically, but why should they get to keep their habit while we're lumped in with the tobacco users?
Smoking cigarettes is not illegal - I'm not saying I want to go to a place that allows it, but I think they should have the right to do so, not be forced by the government to prohibit it. Same thing with vaping - it should be up to the business owner, not the Duluth city counsel. That was the point I was trying to make.
That's why we're talking about it Mike. We need to get the word out. We need to dispell the misinformation. We need people to understand that vaping, as far as can be proven, is no more dangerous than other tobacco free nicotine delivery systems. Lumping vaping in with tobacco use is a blatent scare tactic being used to train the sheep to support overregulation and sin taxes.
It's tempting to suggest that nicotine gum, patches, and inhailers be taxed at the same rate as vaporizing products if they take it that far. Not to punish other people who choose those delivery methods specifically, but why should they get to keep their habit while we're lumped in with the tobacco users?
I've had plenty of employers who could care less about their employees,,,,,,they can always find a new one.
Until the majority of folks smoke analogs, which will never happen, the rights of the majority (being non-smokers) will prevail ..
Officials are elected to represent the majority of what people want .. if people want non-smoking, that is the will of the people ..
Entire States have enacted this type legislation .. and as a resident of one, it was the right move
We can debate our personal beliefs long and hard .. However, business ability to set their own rules as they see fit on legal activity has never been an optimum policy .. and the best example is in the case of workers ..
I have known a single, working Mom that goes to work every day and has for 20 years .. she raised 2 kids, bought a house, paid her taxes, toed the line and was someone you'd be proud to call a friend .. she worked a good job that paid better than most others in her area, offered good benefits, etc ..
Her job was at a Casino with a "Smoke 'Em if You Got 'Em" policy ..
Although never being a smoker in her entire life, she is now suffering thru the loss of a lung and extensive Chemo .. her DR's diagnosis .. ?? Second hand smoke ..
Sure, I guess she could have quit a good job and worked somewhere else for less money .. but, whether we want to admit it or not, quality jobs that pay well with great benefits are not exactly popping out of the woodwork every day, especially for women ..
She testified from a wheelchair on oxygen during the debate on Illinois going smoke free .. and helped pass the legislation ..
Her biggest opponents .. ?? Wait for it .. the Casino Lobby ..
Do they give a whit about this type exposure .. ?? I'll let you decide that ..
Officials are elected to represent the majority of what people want .. if people want non-smoking, that is the will of the people ..
Entire States have enacted this type legislation .. and as a resident of one, it was the right move
We can debate our personal beliefs long and hard .. However, business ability to set their own rules as they see fit on legal activity has never been an optimum policy .. and the best example is in the case of workers ..
I have known a single, working Mom that goes to work every day and has for 20 years .. she raised 2 kids, bought a house, paid her taxes, toed the line and was someone you'd be proud to call a friend .. she worked a good job that paid better than most others in her area, offered good benefits, etc ..
Her job was at a Casino with a "Smoke 'Em if You Got 'Em" policy ..
Although never being a smoker in her entire life, she is now suffering thru the loss of a lung and extensive Chemo .. her DR's diagnosis .. ?? Second hand smoke ..
Sure, I guess she could have quit a good job and worked somewhere else for less money .. but, whether we want to admit it or not, quality jobs that pay well with great benefits are not exactly popping out of the woodwork every day, especially for women ..
She testified from a wheelchair on oxygen during the debate on Illinois going smoke free .. and helped pass the legislation ..
Her biggest opponents .. ?? Wait for it .. the Casino Lobby ..
Do they give a whit about this type exposure .. ?? I'll let you decide that ..
I'm so sorry for her
I have friends in the airline industry who suffered the same fate from years of being flight attendants on smoke filled flights, unfortunately.
There is so much biased reporting against vaping its hard to stay on top of it all.
there are good / balanced articles ..
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...467841-cnn-posts-very-good-e-cig-article.html
At the risk of going off topic, and sounding like a completely insensitive [insert derogatory term for a ...... off woman here] - if you aren't willing to risk potential complications due to hazzards of any kind at your work, you should seek other employ.
This is an over the top example, but what if the government all of a sudden decided washing windows above a certain height on a building should be regulated because the person doing that job could potentially plummet to their death?
It's always sad to hear about someone suffering because of the choices of another, much like what may happen if we allow the government to regulate vaping into oblivion. Shall we allow them to send those who can't completely break their nicotine habit right back to the stinkies?
This is an over the top example, but what if the government all of a sudden decided washing windows above a certain height on a building should be regulated because the person doing that job could potentially plummet to their death?
It's always sad to hear about someone suffering because of the choices of another, much like what may happen if we allow the government to regulate vaping into oblivion. Shall we allow them to send those who can't completely break their nicotine habit right back to the stinkies?
windows need to be washed,,,,,,,
but I don't expect to have to put up with more danger than necessary.
what if the owner of said building refused to offer basic protection like safety harnesses??????
I'm sure those with the luxury of being able to make that choice do so every day .. what about those that are paid an actual good living wage and would see that drop by 50%, lose the benefit package and thus impact not only themselves, but their families .. ??
I know .. "Let the eat Cake .. "
I posted earlier in this thread about being caught by the line "it looks like smoking and thus will encourage young people to smoke" .
Now I stumbled at this as ciggies have an age restriction and currently vaping doesn't (UK) .
Just occurred to me that shandy is sold to kids of any age in the UK (beer flavoured soda), so that is a not so pleasant parrallel to the vaping contradictions that are current .
I can not for the life of me find any reasonable point put forth against vaping .
So with that , I may don a tshirt with a print that resonates of the leadership in the "first world":
Now I stumbled at this as ciggies have an age restriction and currently vaping doesn't (UK) .
Just occurred to me that shandy is sold to kids of any age in the UK (beer flavoured soda), so that is a not so pleasant parrallel to the vaping contradictions that are current .
I can not for the life of me find any reasonable point put forth against vaping .
So with that , I may don a tshirt with a print that resonates of the leadership in the "first world":
It was not a perfect analogy - and very over the top as I stated.
I don't really want to sound like a jerk - but no one has to work anywhere, even if they feel like they do. There are always alternatives. Let's face it - people who want to smoke FLOCK to businesses where they still can. I know my boyfriend and I did - we LOVED the casino just because we could smoke. I'd love to see some numbers on the profit margins of smoke free casinos vs smoking ones.
I don't know this woman's exact situation, but she could have perhaps opened a daycare in her home for income. No worry about smoking there, well unless you're even more of a jerk than I am and you smoke cigarettes around kids. :-\
Actually, down here there are alot of casinos nowadays. Alot are owned by the Indians and allow smoking. I prefer and go to the casino that doesn't allow smoking and I think alot of people choose that casino over some of the others as well. At least alot of the people I know prefer that casino over the Indian casinos, plus the payouts seem a little bit fairer. And even when I smoked, I couldn't stand the smell of the smoking casino. It stunk! The Hard Rock casino that allows smoking is about one mile from my home. I travel about 20 mins. to go to the non-smoking one. lol. Then again, I only go to the casino maybe a couple times a year when family are in town and dying to go. I don't enjoy losing alot of money (I mean gambling). lol.
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