A bit of a rant over keeping vaping legal and safe.

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EddardinWinter

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e-liquid regulation is pretty much a given, IMO .. the degree of which is what should and could be lobbied for at any time, especially now before anything is set in stone .. and when it happens, unless those that now profit from the sale of the goods in this country are using the system to write the rules, VIA a Lobby .. which is how it's done .. they will disappear and the sale of that then elusive nicotine will then go underground .. it's as simple as that ..

And nothing will prevent the Chinese from continuing to offer what they offer ..

The business built around selling the goods is the most important piece of this puzzle .. which is the exact same scenario that gets trumpeted around ECF as it relates to BT and it's efforts ..

Yes, we all have some skin in the game, but no one is going to take to the streets and carry a picket sign, sorry .. We're not going to have the "movement" ..

And I'm a Game of Thrones fan myself, BTW ..

Don't let the name fool you, I am a Lannister, balls to bone.

No one needs to picket in the streets. There are much better ways to make noise today. Worry not, I will not attempt to recruit you into the movement. You can thank us later when you can still order your juice, or laugh at us when you are right.

I refuse to accept inevitable regulation, but maybe I am just thick. If we just meekly accept the loss, we surely deserve to lose it.



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DC2

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Why would you think we would is really the question .. have analog smokers which far outnumber our ranks taken to the streets when continued tax upon tax upon tax has been imposed .. ??
Many felt it was somewhat justified, or at least thought they understood why it was happening.
This is very, very different from that.
 
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the_vape_nerd

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Why do you say that?

He's saying it because in general the American electorate is apathetic. I think vapers aren't much different. Take a look at the board when you get here or just hit "today's post" and scroll. 95% of what is there is about how to do this with that or how to figure out technical issues. The average vaper may want his stuff to stay legal but is he willing to do anything about it in any real sense? I doubt it.

CASAA is a great idea and I'm glad it exists and i've sent donations. I just don't think in the end they are going to have the clout to deal with BT or BP.

Even if every vaper were a gung-ho activist, would the general population care? Or would we hear refrains of "its the economy stupid"?

Look at all this NSA business, the government is spying on average citizens everyday. Outside of a few political wonks on television, this has been greeted by the public at large with a collective shrug of the shoulders.

If the public doesn't care about such blatant intrusiveness to privacy like this scandal, what makes you think they will care one iota about vaping?
 

DC2

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If the public doesn't care about such blatant intrusiveness to privacy like this scandal, what makes you think they will care one iota about vaping?
Because in the near future a lot of people are going to know, care about, or love someone whose life may well have been saved by vaping.
 

Uncle Willie

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Don't let the name fool you, I am a Lannister, balls to bone.

No one needs to picket in the streets. There are much better ways to make noise today. Worry not, I will not attempt to recruit you into the movement. You can thank us later when you can still order your juice, or laugh at us when you are right.

I refuse to accept inevitable regulation, but maybe I am just thick. If we just meekly accept the loss, we surely deserve to lose it.



Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

I don't advocate meek acceptance at all .. my point is simple .. the same tactics used by any industry that is under threat should primarily be fought by those that profit financially .. that does not mean the user should not be involved to a degree .. that is the way it is these days .. to think any different is unrealistic .. a system is best changed from the inside ..

Lannister / Stark or Targaryen .. ;)
 

Uncle Willie

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Many felt it was somewhat justified, or at least thought they understood why it was happening.
This is very, very different from that.

And you believe the public at large with, let's say, 75% non smokers, are going to be sympathetic to our cause .. ?? I don't think so .. those will simply say "Hey, the tax has no effect on me .. the regulation has no effect on me .." .. especially when the propaganda machine gets fully cranked up .. ?? Come on .. really .. ??
 

SissySpike

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He's saying it because in general the American electorate is apathetic. I think vapers aren't much different. Take a look at the board when you get here or just hit "today's post" and scroll. 95% of what is there is about how to do this with that or how to figure out technical issues. The average vaper may want his stuff to stay legal but is he willing to do anything about it in any real sense? I doubt it.

CASAA is a great idea and I'm glad it exists and i've sent donations. I just don't think in the end they are going to have the clout to deal with BT or BP.

Even if every vaper were a gung-ho activist, would the general population care? Or would we hear refrains of "its the economy stupid"?

Look at all this NSA business, the government is spying on average citizens everyday. Outside of a few political wonks on television, this has been greeted by the public at large with a collective shrug of the shoulders.

If the public doesn't care about such blatant intrusiveness to privacy like this scandal, what makes you think they will care one iota about vaping?
It just takes one spark to light a fire. I wish I knew what that spark is cause we need some very serious civil disobedience IMO but I gotta believe If I keep trying others will to and one day those who try will be the majority.
 

the_vape_nerd

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Because in the near future a lot of people are going to know, care about, or love someone whose life may well have been saved by vaping.

Im not saying we should give up, or not fight. I'm not saying that your above statement isn't 100% correct, but I think some folks need a dose of reality in terms of what the vaping community is up against.

There's already been a push to move things underground. That in my opinion is more or less where things should be focused.

That or maybe workarounds that don't violate the letter of the law.

Right now you can buy whole tobacco leaves, tax free. You can shred them, roll your own cigs and not pay cigarette taxes.

We need to figure out something similar.
 

DC2

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And you believe the public at large with, let's say, 75% non smokers, are going to be sympathetic to our cause .. ?? I don't think so .. those will simply say "Hey, the tax has no effect on me .. the regulation has no effect on me .." .. especially when the propaganda machine gets fully cranked up .. ?? Come on .. really .. ??
You and I are talking about different things apparently.
You're talking about taxes, and I'm talking about the removal of free-roaming nicotine.
 

EddardinWinter

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I don't advocate meek acceptance at all .. my point is simple .. the same tactics used by any industry that is under threat should primarily be fought by those that profit financially .. that does not mean the user should not be involved to a degree .. that is the way it is these days .. to think any different is unrealistic .. a system is best changed from the inside ..

Lannister / Stark or Targaryen .. ;)

I cannot do anything about that, the lobby inside world is beyond my grasp

But today there ARE a great many things I can do. Organize, petition, write about nicotine, satirize the FDA, attack the lies, expose the hypocrisy! We must try, we owe it to ourselves.

Smokers were shamed into silence because it was dangerous and unhealthy. Vaping is neither, and I will not go down quietly!

I got spirit, yes I do, I got spirit, how 'bout you?

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PDADoc

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I cannot do anything about that, the lobby inside world is beyond my grasp

But today there ARE a great many things I can do. Organize, petition, write about nicotine, satirize the FDA, attack the lies, expose the hypocrisy! We must try, we owe it to ourselves.

Smokers were shamed into silence because it was dangerous and unhealthy. Vaping is neither, and I will not go down quietly!

I got spirit, yes I do, I got spirit, how 'bout you?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

Well, put, sir!

Regardless of my stance on what strategies need to be employed, I can certainly appreciate --and respect-- someone who has the strength of their convictions.

Good for you!
 

Aheadatime

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Look at all this NSA business, the government is spying on average citizens everyday. Outside of a few political wonks on television, this has been greeted by the public at large with a collective shrug of the shoulders.

Less than half of those living in the early colonies labeled themselves patriots and fought for independence. In fact, some historical estimates place the number of white males who fought as patriots at under 45%, upwards to just above 50%. Public opinion coming from the average citizen isn't what changes things, never has been.

We do indeed live in an incredible time, however, where the internet gives birth to vast means of communication, in turn creating a much easier to access and larger in general network of like minded individuals who, in dozens of countries around the globe, are protesting the status quo. This gives more creedence to the idea that large numbers do indeed make things happen, but its still not an absolute truth.

What is most obviously true in regards to historical repetition is that the resilience and dedication of the few always outweigh the apathy and ignorance of the many. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of libertarians, anarchists, dems, and repubs who loathe the blatant disregard for constitutional principle throughout today's joke of a political system. To sum them up as a "few wonks on TV" is either pessimistic, uninformed, or just plain rude. I would assume it is an uniformed statement, as the vast majority of those what I would define as the "correct" political state of mind never get the time of day on these TV stations (fun fact - 5 corporations own over 95% of all North American media outlets and the sources therein).

I mean no offense, and I hope I didn't come off as jerk-ish or "high horse-ish".
 

PDADoc

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Less than half of those living in the early colonies labeled themselves patriots and fought for independence. In fact, some historical estimates place the number of white males who fought as patriots at under 45%, upwards to just above 50%. Public opinion coming from the average citizen isn't what changes things, never has been.

We do indeed live in an incredible time, however, where the internet gives birth to vast means of communication, in turn creating a much easier to access and larger in general network of like minded individuals who, in dozens of countries around the globe, are protesting the status quo. This gives more creedence to the idea that large numbers do indeed make things happen, but its still not an absolute truth.

What is most obviously true in regards to historical repetition is that the resilience and dedication of the few always outweigh the apathy and ignorance of the many. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of libertarians, anarchists, dems, and repubs who loathe the blatant disregard for constitutional principle throughout today's joke of a political system. To sum them up as a "few wonks on TV" is either pessimistic, uninformed, or just plain rude. I would assume it is an uniformed statement, as the vast majority of those what I would define as the "correct" political state of mind never get the time of day on these TV stations (fun fact - 5 corporations own over 95% of all North American media outlets and the sources therein).

I mean no offense, and I hope I didn't come off as jerk-ish or "high horse-ish".

Now this is what I'm talking about!!! There's nothing more enjoyable than a civilized debate where, despite the ostensible divergence of opinion, people still behave like gentlemen! If only it could be this way everywhere else.

It's truly a pleasure to participate in these forums!
 

kristin

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Yes, we all have some skin in the game, but no one is going to take to the streets and carry a picket sign, sorry .. We're not going to have the "movement" ..

You mean like this? :2cool:


944429_10200493735999544_671693996_n.jpg


CASAA legislative director Greg Conley and fellow advocates in New York City
to testify before the committee, May 2013
 
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Robino1

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He's saying it because in general the American electorate is apathetic. I think vapers aren't much different. Take a look at the board when you get here or just hit "today's post" and scroll. 95% of what is there is about how to do this with that or how to figure out technical issues. The average vaper may want his stuff to stay legal but is he willing to do anything about it in any real sense? I doubt it.

CASAA is a great idea and I'm glad it exists and i've sent donations. I just don't think in the end they are going to have the clout to deal with BT or BP.

Even if every vaper were a gung-ho activist, would the general population care? Or would we hear refrains of "its the economy stupid"?

Look at all this NSA business, the government is spying on average citizens everyday. Outside of a few political wonks on television, this has been greeted by the public at large with a collective shrug of the shoulders.

If the public doesn't care about such blatant intrusiveness to privacy like this scandal, what makes you think they will care one iota about vaping?

I did not fight when they were limiting where I smoked. I believed it was bad for me and those around me. I WILL fight for my right to vape, for my right to successfully quit smoking in THE only way I have found. If it means demonstrating in the streets along with others.....I will do my VERY best to be there and do so! Please tell me you are at least writing to politicians when the calls to action are posted.
 
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