Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

[eRob_]

Okay great success for the most part pushing Sally's rayon around town to various vapers and shop people in the B&M's ... people give a funny look when you start pulling out 10 feet or more to stuff in a bag for them. Plus they ask: "Whats in that big box you have there ..."

Late last week ordered some Medline rayon balls ... Let us just say I now have many, many life times worth of rayon.

The balls are incredibly easy to unroll in comparison to cotton. The "medium" or what I'm initially calling really f'in small, are a little more whisped together, but the "Large" is pretty good to work with. Advantage of the medium is that they are almost the right size to start wicking with with less fuss ...

Keep in mind these shipped in white paper bags labeled very clearly NON-STERILE.

Its an insane amount, but I intend on giving out a lot of it.


Some pics with reference part numbers and scale included:

Overall scale buying in bulk::


Large:


Medium:


Ball size on scale:


Unrolled large:


Unrolled medium:




Just in case people are buying this or smaller amounts so you know what you're getting.

Enjoy all.

Okay, I have been lurking this thread from the beginning and have a large box of Sally's, but I have to know what are your thoughts on Sally's vs. Medline? I almost pulled the trigger awhile back when these were first mentioned, but with the additional cost of the rayon balls, I wanted to make sure it would be a good investment. I have definitely been getting the "Rayon" aftertaste and had to *gasp* boil some and no more taste. However, while boiling I lost the consistency that make cellucotton so great to work with. If I can get the amazing qualities of Rayon, but without the dreaded "t-shirt" taste, I will be ecstatic to continue "drinking" my juice. Ty

 

[TheRac25]

the unknown effects of vaping rayon long term.

Because this is an engineered product, I can say with a high level of confidence that they are less than or equal to cotton.

 

[JeremyR]

The balls are incredibly easy to unroll in comparison to cotton. The "medium" or what I'm initially calling really f'in small, are a little more whisped together, but the "Large" is pretty good to work with. Advantage of the medium is that they are almost the right size to start wicking with with less fuss ...

Keep in mind these shipped in white paper bags labeled very clearly NON-STERILE.
Unrolled medium:

Just in case people are buying this or smaller amounts so you know what you're getting.

Enjoy all.

Thanks for posting pics! That's awesome... Your stocked up for sure. Let me know how great they are.

I was just looking tonight for a supplier of smaller packages of them.... Not sterile is good, sterile balls are just irradiated to sterilize.

For those that still think it's somehow bad, it's used a lot in medicine check this out wound contact layer - https://www.medonthego.com/mobile/P...yer-55-x-8-Inch-66000701-1-Each_p_123996.html

 

[JeremyR]

Okay, I have been lurking this thread from the beginning and have a large box of Sally's, but I have to know what are your thoughts on Sally's vs. Medline? I almost pulled the trigger awhile back when these were first mentioned, but with the additional cost of the rayon balls, I wanted to make sure it would be a good investment. I have definitely been getting the "Rayon" aftertaste and had to *gasp* boil some and no more taste. However, while boiling I lost the consistency that make cellucotton so great to work with. If I can get the amazing qualities of Rayon, but without the dreaded "t-shirt" taste, I will be ecstatic to continue "drinking" my juice. Ty

The balls are more pure. Their held to a higher standard of purity, and have additional rinsing so their as washed as they get. Very neutral in comparison to Sally's IMO. this is a small but noticeable difference. The main problem if you taste the wick is using too much however your doing your wicks. Delasco's is 12.00 shipped for 200 a more reasonable size for a person. Delasco - Rayon Balls
I'm searching for other suppliers as we speak.

 

[JeremyR]

So I have been following this thread with great skepticism for about 2+ weeks. Mainly because of the unknown effects of vaping rayon long term.
Finally caved in today and bought the 44060 cellucotton box from sallys.
Loaded up my origin v2 with it and I will try to put into words the noise I made my first hit:

"GOD DAYUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"
This stuff is so clean, its obscene.
Some of the juice i hated before on cotton now suddenly taste phenomenal.
To me vapor production is about the same, but the boost in flavor for me is about 40% increase. I can really taste the subtleties in my juices now.
Still though, the thought in the back of my head that it might be unsafe is making a bit hesitant to switch.
But, in my mind i mean if were vaping cotton, im sure there is alot of unsafe qualities about it as well. I guess im just trying to convince myself to ditch cotton haha.

Dude its fine. More pure than cotton, pure cellulose. Maybe this will help convince you.

"GOD DAYUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"

This stuff is so clean, its obscene.

I've only had many positive effects from rayon both in vapor and in health. We have no idea what the effects from vaping are or vaping cotton, silica, or ceramic; so that's kind of a lofty request. I'd rather vape off wood cellulose than any of the previous examples. But We do know the long term effects of smoking cigs.

Rayon has been around over a hundred years.... Oh ever hear anyone say they see dark specks in cotton under magnification? ... You don't want to know What that is! Trust me!

 

[PaulBHC]

Getting just the right amount of wick in the coil and the right amount in the wick hole is tricky. I am still trying to perfect it. I would make sure you have the right amount in the coil, then play around with how much is in the wick hole. I have not been able to get mine to wick fast enough without tipping it upside down for a few seconds in-between puffs (IDK maybe that is a std practice). The best I have achieved was by having the coil filled but reducing the amount of wick in the hole so the hole is not filled w/ wick but rather has space around it. This allows the liquid to more readily seep onto the wick thru the extra space in the wick hole then continue on to the coil.

Sorry, but I also have a question on this as well. I know that you don't want the wick hole to be filled/plugged with the wick so do you make a coil smaller than the wick hole (so u use the same diameter of wick from the coil thru the hole) or do you wick a larger diameter coil and reduce the width of the coil as is goes thru the wick hole into the tank. Also, in relation to the wick hole, say a 2mm wick hole, what diameter coil would be optimal for wicking?

If anyone has any better tips then please chime in, I would love to know as well.

I started with an RSST which has a 3mm wick hole and used a 5/64 drill which is almost 2mm. My T2s have a 2mm hole but I continued to use the 5/64 coil. Now I'm thinking of going to a 1/16 on the T2s.

 

[HolmanGT]

Dude its fine. More pure than cotton, pure cellulose. Maybe this will help convince you.


I've only had many positive effects from rayon both in vapor and in health. We have no idea what the effects from vaping are or vaping cotton, silica, or ceramic; so that's kind of a lofty request. I'd rather vape off wood cellulose than any of the previous examples. We do know the long term effects of smoking. Rayon has been around over a hundred years.... Oh ever hear anyone say they see dark specks in cotton under magnification? ... You don't want to know What that is! Trust me!

Jeremy, you don't want to know what the dark specks in rice, cornmeal, flour or a lot of other food product are.

Did you know there are government specification for the amount of "Rat Poop" that is allowed in various grains, sugar and such.

Also Rayon is more resistant to bacteria growth then cotton.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Getting just the right amount of wick in the coil and the right amount in the wick hole is tricky. I am still trying to perfect it. I would make sure you have the right amount in the coil, then play around with how much is in the wick hole. I have not been able to get mine to wick fast enough without tipping it upside down for a few seconds in-between puffs (IDK maybe that is a std practice). The best I have achieved was by having the coil filled but reducing the amount of wick in the hole so the hole is not filled w/ wick but rather has space around it. This allows the liquid to more readily seep onto the wick thru the extra space in the wick hole then continue on to the coil.

Sorry, but I also have a question on this as well. I know that you don't want the wick hole to be filled/plugged with the wick so do you make a coil smaller than the wick hole (so u use the same diameter of wick from the coil thru the hole) or do you wick a larger diameter coil and reduce the width of the coil as is goes thru the wick hole into the tank. Also, in relation to the wick hole, say a 2mm wick hole, what diameter coil would be optimal for wicking?

If anyone has any better tips then please chime in, I would love to know as well.

My bottom feeders have a 2.5mm holes which is a smidge larger than a 3/32. I use a 5/64th to wrap coil which is a smidge smaller than the 3/32 then my wicks are a smidge smaller than that. I think in general, you want your wicks to barely touch the walls of your atty deck holes going into your tank, if at all. It works well for me whether I use ss or any other wick type.

 

[NahkriinKrosis]

I knew I'd get answers here. Thanks for all the great advice!

As far as being over wicked, and the bend in the coil at the bottom:

I can throw on straight micros to a 3 post rda just fine, but i always bend the last coil when i connect the negative leg to the screw on the deck:/ Like I said, Im a genesis n00b. but the wick was just right for that coil and I built it on the allen wrench for the ago which is a slightly smaller diameter than the hole itself.

After removing the fill hole screw its working much better. Ive set it on its side to test leaking and have not had an issue there, not even any juice on the deck! but I really like the idea of the tip in the fill hole trick, very clever!

By any means this is the best experience I've had with the agi besides using it as a dripper.

 

[JeremyR]

Ok guys just listened to this podcast.. Thanks for posting it, was it one of us that sent it to him?

Start at 34 min for the 1/2hr rayon segment.

Vapers Place - Show Schedule and Replays

It's a show called Click Bang on vapers place. I have a couple things I want to talk about in regards to their discussion.

It was actually an excellent review for rayon. They discussed some of its amazing properties. They even went to say that cotton is out and rayon is in... they see no reason to ever go back. it's the next revolution in vaping essentially.

Glad you like it guys! You should hit me up if you have any questions.

On to the show I would like to add some things to the discussion. And also now I really see the need to get all the info together soon..

This thread was started less than 2 months ago. It didn't take off till 5/26 one month ago. I know it seems like a long time by the number of posts.
The thread and rayon use by me was started with pharmaceutical grade rayon (it has no flavor to it no matter what)... I got massive backlash in the community as expected. So I came out and said tencel is produced with a environmentally friendly process. And ...We could find a source for it and the product is top or a straight continuous strand. That phase lasted for about a week! Then the cellucotton rayon was found at Sally's. Brian got it and said it was good... We had a readily available source and we started going bonkers.

The flavor difference is because it's like your drinking it not burning it. And the proof is in your coil. Pure juice no burning so the flavor profile is different.

Rayon is produced with chemical reactions to and end product of regenerated cellulose(cell OH) it comes out as cellulose with salts attached to the molecule. (Cell OH+na2So4) it's then washed to remove the salts to reach pure regenerated cellulose (cell OH) the amount of rinsing to achieve pure regen cellulose is the difference in the grades.

Rayon should burn to a light ash. It burns faster than cotton when dry because its oxegen and hydrogen bonds are broken. If you let it burn out it will be ash

You guys mentioned an off taste... It could be the way your wicking it because it actually took me a little while to figure it out as no one rlse had ever used it... Rayon actually gets smaller as all the air is forced out and replaced by juice and the fibers come together. So it may have been too tight and then shrank down to and acceptable contact pressure... Your probably using slightly too much. But anyway, boiling can improve the taste if your getting a taste from Sallys CCr. For one it is not as pure as the pharma and medical balls. Brain confirmed this by tasting them and the medi balls were neutral and the Sally's tasted somewhat papery. Also I gotta wonder with it being in the same store as perm solution because that stuff reeks. So also due to different storage factors washing may help. It's a fact that the medi grade is more pure with a very neutral taste of Nothing. This is what I used originally.. And with that you don't have to worry about the variables that could be involved.

This is how i do my through coil builds - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...491421.html?highlight=Commentary#post13491421

Will have to listen again and see what else.

Posted from iphone as always...

 

[burnie71]

Interesting thread I just stumbled on...must give this ago

 

[bsoplinger]

I can throw on straight micros to a 3 post rda just fine, but i always bend the last coil when i connect the negative leg to the screw on the deck:/ Like I said, Im a genesis n00b. but the wick was just right for that coil and I built it on the allen wrench for the ago which is a slightly smaller diameter than the hole itself.

The trick to fix your issue is to put the coil back on the Allen wrench or drill bit or whatever you wrapped around. The tool inside the coil will prevent you from distorting the coil when you tighten the legs on the posts.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

 

[WharfRat1976]

Wicked my brand new Norbert with fatty CC wicks and a ton in the wells...WOW...Only ohm'd down to .7....Super clean hits and mega flavor and clouds....Have big bushy tops collecting the "dome sweat". Vaped it until the juice ran dry then reloaded. On my 4th refill and each flavor coming through loud and clear. My taptalk is fried so I will post pics when I can figure it out again. No breakin chuffs either. Right to business. Used mocha as one of the flavors and the coils are clean....amazing...

 

[JeremyR]

This is great to hear warfrat !
Quite a turn around in a couple days huh... Glad it's working for you, it's only gonna get better as you perfect it.

 

[Aal_]

I am having problems with my Kayfuns again, I am not able to pin point if it's bad wicking, too much rayon or too little. I feel like a newbie again AAAGHH!!

I get some dry hits, so I open the chimney up I see the rayon full of liquid, how am i getting dry hit? I try to fire without the tank, then I notice the middle of the coil starting to light up. I know the middle lights first in my microcoils, so it is natural. But I am still not able to figure out the problem, I might try to rewick with very small amount and see. By the way I never noticed the rayon shrinking so maybe until i see it, I am putting too much.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Jeremy, have you out it in a dripper...good lord man! Here are the pics of my Norbert:

I fired it under a 6 magnifying glass and you can literally watch the juice being wicked up to the coil...lol

 

[brianc11111]

I am having problems with my Kayfuns again, I am not able to pin point if it's bad wicking, too much rayon or too little. I feel like a newbie again AAAGHH!!

I get some dry hits, so I open the chimney up I see the rayon full of liquid, how am i getting dry hit? I try to fire without the tank, then I notice the middle of the coil starting to light up. I know the middle lights first in my microcoils, so it is natural. But I am still not able to figure out the problem, I might try to rewick with very small amount and see. By the way I never noticed the rayon shrinking so maybe until i see it, I am putting too much.

if you can see the coil light up then you have too little wick.......
your "dry hits" are actually coil hits

 

[Aal_]

if you can see the coil light up then you have too little wick.......
your "dry hits" are actually coil hits

Is it possible? I thought I have used the maximum I can fit in there. I will try again with more wick!

ADD: Is it possible that rayon is shrinking only under the coil and not at the shoulders? When I try to remove a wet wick, the shoulders are too dense that I cannot slide it out easily. Still too little wick?

 

[brianc11111]

aalwani thats a tough one.....
the only other way i can think of would be that your coil has a high spot?

 

[bsoplinger]

Is it possible? I thought I have used the maximum I can fit in there. I will try again with more wick!

ADD: Is it possible that rayon is shrinking only under the coil and not at the shoulders? When I try to remove a wet wick, the shoulders are too dense that I cannot slide it out easily. Still too little wick?

I've not had your problem but offer this suggestion. Try wetting the wick before you feed it through the coil. You can find many people here mentioning that their wick shrinks after a bit. That's because as the rayon wicks liquid its slowly forcing the air between the fibers out which reduces the size of the wick. If you start with your wick dampened with juice you're at least partway through that process and you'll have less shrinkage.

If necessary you can always trim the wick outside the coil if you've still got big shoulders. This one is harder to give advice for as you've not said what device, at least in the post I'm quoting.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2