Regarding Dual Users

[Arnie H]

Recently, I've met more people who are dual users (they smoke and vape).

Most who do, say that vaping has at least helped them cut back on smoking, which of course is a great thing.

But I'm curious as to why some folks (even former heavy smokers) are able to break away from analogs completely, and often very quickly, while others either are unable to do so, or prefer to do both.

Is the "unsatisfied vaper syndrome" at work here? I can't help but think all they need is the right setup, right juice, dual coils, sub ohm, etc, and they'd stop entirely. But some may really like having the "best of both worlds". They can vape when and where appropriate and smoke when they want/need to.

I had one dual user tell me that he likes vaping, but when he is drinking alcohol, he feels he must have a regular cigarette. Which would seem to indicate, at least, some level of dissatisfaction with whatever he is using.

Any thoughts or insights into this?

Thanks.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I think cigarettes are simpler and they can rock a throat hit in a very quick manner. To get those things, it takes some work/effort. Sadly, Big Tobacco made it very easy to keep smoking.

I figured vaping would be a different experience and I accepted it.

 

[AndriaD]

I think cigarettes are simpler and they can rock a throat hit in a very quick manner. To get those things, it takes some work/effort. Sadly, Big Tobacco made it very easy to keep smoking.

I figured vaping would be a different experience and I accepted it.

Same here.

I think it's really just that ol brain, telling them that they're "missing something"; when you're drinking alcohol, your judgement is already impaired, so the negative stuff gets thru a lot more clearly. I still get some of those "you're missing something" messages, but I squash them firmly before they can take root and grow; when you're drinking, you kinda lose that ability to know when something is a "junk message" that should be ignored.

I think it's also a case of maybe them not really wanting to quit smoking; maybe they just wanted a way to "smoke" indoors, or "smoke" without making a nasty stink on their persons, or just being stubbornly attached to their addiction. I was that way for a long, long time -- no one was more surprised than me, when I decided that vaping could do everything for me that smoking did (except kill me!).

Andria

 

[bluecat]

Some people want to quit... Others think they want to quit... You won't quit unless you force yourself to quit.

Either way, if you want to smoke.... smoke.. People here are adults. Each individual has to make that choice for him or herself.

 

[Completely Average]

I think there is some sort of mental craving going on that is not related to nicotine.

I was a dual user for months before I quit smoking entirely. Near the end I would go days without a single cigarette, but I would occasionally still crave one and go ahead and light one up. Once I lit one up I would rarely smoke more than 1/4 or so and then put it back out and go find my ecig, but there was a craving that just made me want to light it up and take a few puffs.

 

[cags]

I've been vaping for 3 years. I was smoking 2 1/2+ pad. I quickly got down to 2 a day, right before bed.
I still have those 2 cigs a day before bed. why? because I am old and I want to.

 

[ScottP]

I personally think it has to do with what they want to do. Some people have no desire to quit, but they want to reduce usage and cut costs. Until they really want to quit, they won't. When I was switching over, I purposefully avoided any alcohol at all for 6-8 months just to make sure there was no relapse. Now I can enjoy a few drinks and have zero cravings for a cig. In fact it now seems that I even vape less when drinking instead of more...not sure why though.

 

[irwink]

When I started vaping it was meant to get me by a 8 to 10 hour job where even smoking on breaks was difficult. But with each succeeding day while I tried to get into it I found I was smoking less and less. After about a week I just decided to quit altogether. Different peoples' brains work differently. I never thought I'd be able to quit a ~40 year habit but I did in short order. It really took no huge force of will power to do so.

Everyone is different.

 

[Recycled Roadkill]

I hoped that a cigalike purchased 3 years ago would be the answer to totally quit smoking. Of course, it wasn't. I'd light a cigarette within seconds of putting it down.

A few years later I saw the evods and egos that were carried around by some. One by a smoker that only puffed on it occasionally. Another that had successfully quit smoking years previously but still craved the cigarettes.

I bought an evod set with the intention of just cutting back some from my usual 45 cigarettes a day on the average. After 24 hours of vaping I realized I'd never need another cigarette again.

PO: Good luck finding a pattern to who, what and why.

 

[Rickajho]

Recently, I've met more people who are dual users (they smoke and vape).

Most who do, say that vaping has at least helped them cut back on smoking, which of course is a great thing.

But I'm curious as to why some folks (even former heavy smokers) are able to break away from analogs completely, and often very quickly, while others either are unable to do so, or prefer to do both.

Is the "unsatisfied vaper syndrome" at work here? I can't help but think all they need is the right setup, right juice, dual coils, sub ohm, etc, and they'd stop entirely. But some may really like having the "best of both worlds". They can vape when and where appropriate and smoke when they want/need to.

I had one dual user tell me that he likes vaping, but when he is drinking alcohol, he feels he must have a regular cigarette. Which would seem to indicate, at least, some level of dissatisfaction with whatever he is using.

Any thoughts or insights into this?

Thanks.

Sure.

You have to actually want to quit smoking. Vaping isn't a magic wand that makes people quit. And if they don't want to - they don't. It probably is one of the most effective ways to quit and stay quit - but you have to want that.

When I approached this I was a 2 PAD smoker going on 30 years. I was sick of smoking and had wanted to quit for years. Wasn't doing a damned thing for me other than keeping the addiction going. If conventional NRT had actually worked - god knows I tried that so many times I can't even give you a number any more - smoking would have been gone from my history at least 5 years before I discovered vaping. We all know how well conventional NRT works so...

I had my reason to quit - I didn't like it. Vaping allowed me to get there and break with the addiction to smoking. But the reality is a lot of people who start vaping don't want to quit - and they don't. Recently got into a conversation on here with someone who said they just couldn't seem to give up that one cigarette a day with morning tea. Ok, that's only one cigarette. But it's not fair to put that on vaping, as somehow a flaw with the vaping experience. Someone can use tea - or coffee or stress or drinking or socializing - or a boat load of rationalizations as to why they have to smoke this one here or that one there and "blame" something wrong with vaping. If you want it fine - admit it. But there is no mystery there - you want a cigarette with your tea more than you want to completely quit. Or you can't take the chiding from your buddies for not "smoking like a real man." Those are not mysteries of the universe that should be looked at with great puzzlement.

If you want to quit completely you quit. If you don't want to - you don't.

 

[Dreaswi]

I was a dual user for 8 months. It wasn't a matter of not having the right setup as I still use my same setup. My brain and willpower just wasn't in the right setting. Even after watching my sister die (age 49) from lung cancer it still took me 3 more months to quit.

It only takes one person to start a revolution.

 

[AndriaD]

I think there is some sort of mental craving going on that is not related to nicotine.

I was a dual user for months before I quit smoking entirely. Near the end I would go days without a single cigarette, but I would occasionally still crave one and go ahead and light one up. Once I lit one up I would rarely smoke more than 1/4 or so and then put it back out and go find my ecig, but there was a craving that just made me want to light it up and take a few puffs.

That's exactly what I experienced, the last week before I quit; I had been smoking 15-18 cigs a day before vaping, but just as soon as I started vaping regularly, it immediately went down to 4-5 a day, so I exerted just a bit more effort, and got it to 2-3 a day. But for those couple, I'd light it up and just cringe, gahhh that's nasty, and no throat hit either! -- I smoked ultra-lights -- so I'd smoke maybe 1/4 - 1/3 of it, and just have to .... it, it was so awful.

The only one that still tasted "right" to me was that first one in the morning, and I had already determined that first thing in the morning, even the most non-sweet vape tasted sweet to me -- the lack of burning bitterness, I guess. I had also noticed that when I first wake up, I was tending to try and vape as if I was smoking; short, quick puffs, straight down the lungs, which explains why I couldn't seem to feel satisfied from vaping instead of smoking in the morning. So I paid attention, and started trying to vape in the morning as if I was VAPING -- longer, slower hits, letting the vapor just hang around inside my throat and nose -- and THEN I could get satisfied.

Since all vapes taste sweet to me in the morning, I figured that I should just vape something that's actually sweet then, and without any throat hit, which I cannot take early in the morning, it makes me cough as bad as cigarettes did. So I mixed up a fairly high nic level (about 9 or 10mg, which is very high, for me) of apple-cinnamon-clove for just-out-of-bed, and it really does the trick. With that high a level of nicotine, by the time I'm dressed and coming into the kitchen, I'm ready to switch over to my 8mg ADV, though I still keep the wattage pretty low for about an hour, only raising it gradually as my throat get accustomed; most of the time I want MAX throat hit!

But I agree with Bluecat; there's no magic wand; if you really want to quit, you will, because you'll make a real effort to BE satisfied with it. Those thinking that their cigarettes will just magically change into e-cigs without any effort on their part are doomed to disappointment, and probably won't quit, until and unless they actually do make an effort to BE satisfied with it. I had to resolve my issue with the sweet taste and the proper method of vaping vs. smoking, before I could cross that bridge, but now, I don't care HOW many cravings I have, I'm just not going to smoke. Without that kind of commitment to the process, it's very difficult if not impossible to actually quit, and make it stick.

Andria

 

[coalyard]

I was pretty determined to quit, but I had Chantix before I picked up vaping. That got me down below 10 cigs a day from almost 3PAD. As the Chantix was going to run out, I needed something to take it's place, so I began vaping and just stopped smoking cigarettes. Bluecat is mostly right though; you have to really want it. We are all different, some people just like to have a cigarette once in a while. I can understand that.

 

[Buggainok]

Sure.

You have to actually want to quit smoking. Vaping isn't a magic wand that makes people quit. And if they don't want to - the don't. It probably is one of the most effective ways to quit and stay quit - but you have to want that.

When I approached this I was a 2 PAD smoker going on 30 years. I was sick of smoking and had wanted to quit for years. Wasn't doing a damned thing for me other than keeping the addiction going. If conventional NRT had actually worked - god knows I tried that so many times I can't even give you a number any more - smoking would have been gone from my history at least 5 years before I discovered vaping. We all know how well conventional NRT works so...

I had my reason to quit - I didn't like it. Vaping allowed me to get there and break with the addiction to smoking. But the reality is a lot of people who start vaping don't want to quit - and they don't. Recently got into a conversation on here with someone who said they just couldn't seem to give up that one cigarette a day with morning tea. Ok, that's only one cigarette. But it's not fair to put that on vaping, as somehow a flaw with the vaping experience. Someone can use tea - or coffee or stress or drinking or socializing - or a boat load of rationalizations as to why they have to smoke this one here or that one there and "blame" something wrong with vaping. If you want it fine - admit it. But there is no mystery there - you want a cigarette with your tea more than you want to completely quit. Or you can't take the chiding from your buddies for not "smoking like a real man." Those are not mysteries of the universe that should be looked at with great puzzlement.

If you want to quit completely you quit. If you don't want to - you don't.

I absolutely agree with everything you said. And, your last two sentences say it all. I was a heavy smoker for over 40 years, and by the time I discovered vaping, I really, really did want to quit. That is the mindset I started with, and I haven't smoked a cigarette since I started vaping.

There is a saying by Confucius: "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." I was ready.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

Cigarettes just gradually became nastier and nastier to me, so it was easy for me. My husband and mother in law were different though. My mother in law absolutely won't ever quit. She's had numerous set ups and numerous flavors to try and never have I ever managed to get her off of them. I stopped buying her stuff just recently. My husband just never developed the dislike for cigarettes the way I did. He still doesn't mind the taste or smell of them, and if I ever gave any indication that I'd go back to smoking, he'd pick up smoking again himself in a NY minute. The only reason he vapes is because it's cheaper and he'd feel guilty for smoking when I no longer do so. Even so, when we were out, he'd bum a cigarette before he'd use his iTaste VV v3. He just got a ciglike set up for being out and about though, so that's finally stopped. He no longer feels embarrassed to vape in public. My younger half sister was also hard to switch. She'd vape when indoors and smoke when outdoors, but I think this was also due to embarrassment with an ego sized device. I wound up hooking her up with some Bedford Slims. They're 808 D1 cigalikes that have a cute little mustache that lights up on the ends. The batteries themselves have designs from local Brooklyn artists as well. They were right up her alley, as she is a hipster/artist type. She's finally stopped smoking so far. She was a lighter smoker anyway, and only smoked around a half a pack or less per day, so the cigalikes work for her. A coworker who moved off from cigalikes was kind enough to give me her 808D1 charging case, and my sister carries her cigalikes in them.

In all, I think we'd have more complete converts if cigalikes performed better. Even my mother in law was happier with the Innokin 510 AIO starter kit I got for her then she was with the original Ego I got her. She's still smoking, but when she runs out of cigs, she picks up the 510's and not the Ego. They just aren't "enough" for her as she's a very heavy smoker. I'm not ashamed of my MVP 2 set ups and carto tanks, but many people wouldn't want to whip those out in public, and even I kept a Bedford Slim battery for myself for times where an MVP may not be appropriate. I couldn't use one full time, but I'm one who doesn't mind using larger devices. I imagine most other pack a day smokers wouldn't want to use an 808 stick style full time either, but unlike myself are put off by larger devices. They fall back on their cigarettes, like my mother in law.

 

[Recycled Roadkill]

It never occurred to me that people could be embarrassed by vaping. For the last 15 or 20 years I've been embarrassed by smoking cigarettes in public.

Maybe that explains why I haven't noticed more "vapers in the wild."

 

[Bigd432]

I think it just boils down to the fact that everybody is different. We all have different things that work for us.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

It never occurred to me that people could be embarrassed by vaping. For the last 15 or 20 years I've been embarrassed by smoking cigarettes in public.

Maybe that explains why I haven't noticed more "vapers in the wild."

Same here. I'm a mom with two young kids, so whenever I took them out I hated being seen with them and a cigarette. Vaping seems to be less embarrassing to me then smoking. Three others I know however, are completely opposite of that.

 

[pcrdude]

I wanted to try vaping to see what it was like. Also, my city banned smoking in bars, so I was thinking it might be a way to get around that ban. I never intended to quit smoking, I liked smoking, and I would have smoked till it inevitably killed me. My habit was 1 1/2 PAD for 35 years.

The same day I started vaping, I had a few cigarettes, decided that vaping was WAY better, gave away a full carton of cigarettes a little while later, and haven't even had the urge for a cigarette even once. That was more than 14 months ago.

I guess I am one of the lucky ones.



OTOH, I have no intention of reducing my vaping, or nicotine level.

YMMV (and probably does).

 

[Stosh]

You have to want it, I vape, I no longer smoke. Smoked for 40+ years, vaped for 3 years 9 months, and everyday I'm "just one pack" from being a full fledged smoker again. Every time I go into a 7-11 or gas station and see the packs of cigs on display, I have to tell myself NO! I've cut my nic by over half from my "quitting" 36mg level, and am satisfied with vaping, but still have a leftover craving I fight every day.

I understand where some may not be able to give up smoking completely, for me at least the lure of the smoke has never been totally quelled.