Right of entitlement?

[wv2win]

Completely beside the point.

We already know you think like the members of ASH. But it is a valid point since the OP implied, just like you do, that no studies exist that show there is no harmful substances in exhaled vapor. You keep thinking if you state a falsehood enough times, that eventually everyone will think it is true.

 

[Spazmelda]

I don't vape where smoking is not allowed. All the evidence I have read suggests that any chemicals in the exhaled vapor are inconsequential, but I don't expect other people to take my word for it. I wish I could ban people who wear too much perfume, but I can't.

Taxes, otoh, I have a big problem with. I don't have a problem with reasonable taxation, but I do have a problem with slapping e-cigs with a SIN tax. Exorbitant cigarette taxes originally were supposed to do double duty to both discourage people from smoking and to raise money to offset some of the health care costs that come from smoking related diseases. I'm not commenting on whether sin taxes are fair or not, and I'm not commenting on whether the taxes raised have been used appropriately, just pointing out their ostensible purpose. Sin taxes on cigarettes have become a whole other thing now, in which the government (which supposedly wants us all to quit smoking) is now fairly dependent on money from these taxes, creating an ironic catch-22, or perhaps conflict of interest would be a better term. If e-cigs are orders of magnitude less unhealthy than cigarettes, there is no logical reason for taxing them with a sin tax.

 

[NancyR]

Because I'm NOT a smoker...plain and simple.

I understand why SOME of the laws in regards to smokers were enacted, most of those either dont or shouldnt apply to vaping.

With all due respect NancyR, I think that maybe youre still thinking like a smoker in this regard.I still find myself falling back into old thought patterns too. a 25 year habit is hard to break completely sometimes.

Im just pointing this out because I would hate to see that ultimately lead to you falling off the wagon.

I wont vape in courtrooms or around children or at gas pumps but most other places should be fair game as long as a little courtesy is used.

no I did not say that you said that. If you approached me and said sir that bothers me I would look at you in a annoying way say OK and quit vaping. Thats what polite people do. The since of entitlement goes both ways though. If you are bothered by something and go some place where some are enjoying vaping you should be the one to leave not them.

Again I am speaking of the people WITHOUT common courtesy, we have 100's of post here in ECF where people don't have that. They are the ones I have issue with. They are the ones that make the rest of us look bad.

 

[Dougiestyle]

Wow, this topic could be nit-picked to death. I vape in public. I do it discreetly. My wife has terrible sinus problems and allergies. I vape within inches of her as she rests on my chest in bed. She's experienced no adverse effects from my vapor. She accompanied me to the last (125+) vape meet without issue. As for the scents... I wear cologne... Must I stop that??

Your soapbox is surrounded by chirping crickets. I understand it may seem like applause. It really isn't mkay. Maybe time to convert to another cause. This one's not going to budge.

 

[NancyR]

We already know you think like the members of ASH. But it is a valid point since the OP implied, just like you do, that no studies exist that show there is no harmful substances in exhaled vapor. You keep thinking if you state a falsehood enough times, that eventually everyone will think it is true.

I never said studies where not done, and I am not saying the vaper itself, but maybe just maybe if you actually READ where I said SCENTS, you would have gotten that

 

[SissySpike]

I will give the OP props for casting out and reeling in a net full! Nancy your a good fisherman;-)

 

[volume control]

I agree to the extent that flaunting your vapor or acting like its no big deal is rude. Plenty of people DONT know what it is, and yeah its going to likely freak them out a bit. Use common sense.

I dont necessarily agree that vaping should be treated like smoking. Its not the same, at all

 

[vapero]

they should be taxed, but not as tobacco products, but as regular stuff, 8% as a shirt or a bottle of water. if the online sales tax enter they should enter to any good regardless of what is it.
don't get me wrong I'm against taxes, but if you tax them as anything else that is not discrimination it's just government wanting a cut

 

[zapped]

Again I am speaking of the people WITHOUT common courtesy, we have 100's of post here in ECF where people don't have that. They are the ones I have issue with. They are the ones that make the rest of us look bad.

I agree with you there, but there are going to be jerks in ANY crowd.Hopefully people wont judge all vapers based on the thoughtless actions of a handful of others (like our gas pump vaping friend from last week).

Thats one of the reasons why I dont hide it like Im doing something guilty.

 

[NancyR]

I don't vape where smoking is not allowed. All the evidence I have read suggests that any chemicals in the exhaled vapor are inconsequential, but I don't expect other people to take my word for it. I wish I could ban people who wear too much perfume, but I can't.

Taxes, otoh, I have a big problem with. I don't have a problem with reasonable taxation, but I do have a problem with slapping e-cigs with a SIN tax. Exorbitant cigarette taxes originally were supposed to do double duty to both discourage people from smoking and to raise money to offset some of the health care costs that come from smoking related diseases. I'm not commenting on whether sin taxes are fair or not, and I'm not commenting on whether the taxes raised have been used appropriately, just pointing out their ostensible purpose. Sin taxes on cigarettes have become a whole other thing now, in which the government (which supposedly wants us all to quit smoking) is now fairly dependent on money from these taxes, creating an ironic catch-22, or perhaps conflict of interest would be a better term. If e-cigs are orders of magnitude less unhealthy than cigarettes, there is no logical reason for taxing them with a sin tax.

I don't want to see them taxes to death either, but again we have people that feel any and all regulation is bad. And then we have people like the kid on youtube showing people to make an e-cig with a 9 volt battery, or the number of times in ECF I have seen people ask about pure nic.

No ECF doesn't allow talk of pure nic, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there and so really regulations on saying this can't be sold is bad?????? How?

We actually need this regulation to come in for one thing once it is released we know what we are dealing with. The down side is I highly doubt they will just regulate and not tax.

 

[llamainmypocket]

I don't understand why so many vapers seem to feel they have a right to entitlement. Like buying an e-cig is a get out of jail free card. You feel you should be able to vape everywhere, infringe on others rights, and sidestep laws and policies.


Why should you be able to vape where you couldn't smoke? You want e-cigs treated like the gum and patches, but guess what if they where then the rest would be a mute point and the FDA would have banned them years ago when they tried. Just because e-cigs are safer than smoking does not mean there is no risk not just to us but to others. You don't know who might be allergic to a scent, and it seems many people here in ECF just don't care.


You don't want it regulated or taxed, all other tobacco products are regulated, and rather people like it or not we ARE using a tobacco product. At this time all nicotine containing e-juices are extracted from tobaco leaves.


Yes, some of the laws they have tried to pass are unfair to us, but we need to understand this isn't a case of we complain and they will stop. This WILL happen we need to be prepared.

It has been shown that second hand vape is entirely unharmful. It also has no smell and dissipates rather quickly. Exactly why would it be against the law to use it anywhere?

E cigarettes are no more a tobacco product than nicotine gum. As a matter of fact, it is a nicotine product. There is no tobacco in it.

Tobacco has been used as a profit tool by government and they currently generate 5 times the revenue from cigarettes than the tobacco companies. The justification for such taxes which are already an infringement upon our personal liberties is that tobacco is harmful, no such evidence exists for vaporizers.

I think the issue of regulation is the lack of faith that we have for the fdas ability to do so in a responsible manner. Most of us here are acutely aware of the need for due process in the manufacturing of vaporizers and ingredients of flavors.

If for example, the fda banned diacetyl in e cigarettes then I think the while community would praise the fda. The problem is akin to their motive which is obviously in banning these devices and making subjective claims to create the illusion of danger which they've been unable to establish.

 

[wv2win]

I have done my research, and I am not talking carcinogenetic substances, but last time I checked they were not a scent some people have problem with, and yes I do get bent on perfumes and stuff like that, but then you haven't been with me on ER trips because of them.

I was not talking about the people who are being respectful but if you knew me at all you would have already known that. But how many posts have you read in here where people don't give a damn and will do it anyways, like the person who was vaping at the gas pumps and thought it funny and the 100's of others like that.

Look, there are always going to be the 1% who act like idiots. Proposing that we treat the majority who are respectful like the 1% is not a solution. Vaping openly and NOT in smoking sections but respectfully and being well prepared to educate the uninformed or the misinformed and lied to is the way we build support for the truth that vaping is safe for those physically close to someone vaping.

 

[NancyR]

I will give the OP props for casting out and reeling in a net full! Nancy your a good fisherman;-)

I knew before I ever made this post I was gonna get a lot of hate, but I said what I felt anyways.

 

[YogaMist]

Interestingly enough, here in Oklahoma City - employees at Walmart are allowed to vape inside on their breaks. I've noticed a ton of people locally that are vaping - it has spread like wildfire here and Big Tobacco has lost 4.5% less profit projected for their first quarter in this state. Perhaps I am lucky enough to live in an area where it has become very popular to quit the nasty analogs and go for a more healthy alternative, therefore there is more tolerance?

 

[BostLabs]

I'm trying to not get the threads I'm invoked in mixed up. LOL!

I'm all for respecting others rights. But as of late it seems that some people (alot) could give a rats behind for mine. I don't want to be persecuted for something that isn't, and should not be, illegal.

 

[NancyR]

It has been shown that second hand vape is entirely unharmful. It also has no smell and dissipates rather quickly. Exactly why would it be against the law to use it anywhere?

E cigarettes are no more a tobacco product than nicotine gum. As a matter of fact, it is a nicotine product. There is no tobacco in it.

Tobacco has been used as a profit tool by government and they currently generate 5 times the revenue from cigarettes than the tobacco companies. The justification for such taxes which are already an infringement upon our personal liberties is that tobacco is harmful, no such evidence exists for vaporizers.

I think the issue of regulation is the lack of faith that we have for the fdas ability to do so in a responsible manner. Most of us here are acutely aware of the need for due process in the manufacturing of vaporizers and ingredients of flavors.

If for example, the fda banned diacetyl in e cigarettes then I think the while community would praise the fda. The problem is akin to their motive which is obviously in banning these devices and making subjective claims to create the illusion of danger which they've been unable to establish.

Did you know we have had posts in here where people have had to change the juices they vape around some family and friends because a scent bothered the other person. Then there are people like Vape TV's Danger Girl who has such a problem with pg juices she can't even be around her vaping husband if he is vaping them?

So just because they are safe, does not mean no one has a problem with something in it. As to the no smell, really then how come so many posts talk about how their house or their car smells just like whatever juice it is they where vaping?

 

[wv2win]

ANTZ doesn't need to define us as dangerous when we have vapers doing it for them

Well, I would suggest you look at what you have written. Because you are doing a good job of telling us that vaping is dangerous and we need to act like it is dangerous by acting like it is the same as smoking.

 

[NancyR]

Well, I would suggest you look at what you have written. Because you are doing a good job of telling us that vaping is dangerous and we need to act like it is dangerous by acting like it is the same as smoking.

Then you have not read what I wrote you have seen what you wanted to see

 

[SissySpike]

I don't want to see them taxes to death either, but again we have people that feel any and all regulation is bad. And then we have people like the kid on youtube showing people to make an e-cig with a 9 volt battery, or the number of times in ECF I have seen people ask about pure nic.

No ECF doesn't allow talk of pure nic, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there and so really regulations on saying this can't be sold is bad?????? How?

We actually need this regulation to come in for one thing once it is released we know what we are dealing with. The down side is I highly doubt they will just regulate and not tax.

You are of a completely different school than me I see government regulation as nothing but abuse of power more corruption and or opportunity for corruption. Regulation from what I can see leads to over regulation thats one of the big reasons our economy is having so much trouble. Our Government has proven time and again they can not regulate with out going overboard so they should not be allowed to regulate one more of anything.
It always starts off with good intentions but soon goes the way of corporate driven. So I say no and no and no we neend no more regulation!

 

[Spazmelda]

I don't want to see them taxes to death either, but again we have people that feel any and all regulation is bad. And then we have people like the kid on youtube showing people to make an e-cig with a 9 volt battery, or the number of times in ECF I have seen people ask about pure nic.

No ECF doesn't allow talk of pure nic, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there and so really regulations on saying this can't be sold is bad?????? How?

We actually need this regulation to come in for one thing once it is released we know what we are dealing with. The down side is I highly doubt they will just regulate and not tax.

I highly doubt they will be capable of reasonable regulation. I would not be opposed to some regulation, but I just don't think they will do it without going overboard with over regulating AND overtaxing. I think that they absolutely will do this, and i think the tobacco companies will lobby hard for the regulations in order to squeeze out the competition, but I also think that if they do they will eventually have egg on their faces. I 100% believe that electronic cigarettes are the thing that will change smoking and related diseases forever. All of the opponents will either look like complete ...... or they will rewrite history to make it seem like they were never really all that opposed to them.